INSTRUCTORS: What have you learned?

[Andrew Manning]

Does it make sense to ask someone who doesn't have enough knowledge about the game to beat you, what to do? Just a question. I mean i wouldn't feel confident in their advice to actually use it. Would u?

Just because someone can't beat you, doesn't mean they dont have enough knowledge to do you any good. Could Butch Harmon ever beat Tiger Woods? Hell no. But Tiger Woods is quick to credit Butch Harmon with making a lot of improvements in his game. He definitely had confidence in Butch's advice. Nearly all golfers on the PGA tour have a swing coach (unless I've been misled at some point). Are you saying those coaches are only worthwhile if they can beat PGA pros? If that were the case, their numbers would decrease dramatically (to zero).

-Andrew

 

[Island Drive]

I don't think alot of people (especially instructors) would like that kind of advice. They give lessons to pros, who can probably give them the 6 out playing 9ball. So I don't know if the advice from Trevino is good advice.

Makes you wonder who helps Tiger Woods if thats the case. I think an interesting point said in an article by Sigel, something along the lines of your not able to transfer spin to an object ball, I think he got barbecued with that statement.

 

[BVal]

Does it make sense to ask someone who doesn't have enough knowledge about the game to beat you, what to do? Just a question. I mean i wouldn't feel confident in their advice to actually use it. Would u?

Some people know what to do just don't have the ability to do it. It doesn't mean they don't know. For example some of the best NFL coaches never played pro football. Tiger woods gets golf lessons - he is the best in the world - if he had to get lessons from someone that could beat him he would never get lessons.

 

[Cornerman]

I see what you are saying. I mean they have knowledge but why does it not work for them to be able to beat the one who they are giving advice too?

Again, you cannot see yourself as others see you.

Knowledge of the game is only one part of the equation that makes a player. You still need to have ability. And ability comes in different level. Physical attributes (yes, this game requires physical skill), sight, execution, muscle memory... the list goes on and on.
To take it to the extreme, a player like Aaron Aragon has tremendous knowledge of the game, but is wheelchair bound. Of course he's not going to be able to play with a wide range of players that he has much more knowledge simply because he faces challenges that they do not.

Sometimes the advice is subtle. Like, the wrist is turning, or the cue is sliding to the right, or the address isn't quite at centerball.

Fred

 

[BVal]

Some people know what to do just don't have the ability to do it. It doesn't mean they don't know. For example some of the best NFL coaches never played pro football. Tiger woods gets golf lessons - he is the best in the world - if he had to get lessons from someone that could beat him he would never get lessons.

all of you beat me to it while i was typing lol.....

 

[Cornerman]

Well yes and no really. Most coaches have had success at the game to be able to coach you. Which are the exceptions in my opinion. I just have a hard time taking advice from someone who has no achievements. Do you?

You're saying two different things. Having no achievements is a whole lot different than not being able to beat you. Your discussion was about not taking advice from someone who couldn't beat you. Are you changing your discussion?

Fred

 

[RSB-Refugee]

I see what you are saying. I mean they have knowledge but why does it not work for them to be able to beat the one who they are giving advice too?

They may know what it takes to do something but for many different reasons are hindered from executing a high percentage of the time. It could be poor eye sight, stroke flaws, bad nerves, excess pain in the shooting position and many other hindrances. Maybe it is an old ex-world beater, that still has the knowledge, but for some reason, the physical skills are gone. Knowledge and ability are not the same, IMO.

Tracy

 

[caedos]

Or how about the not so easy task of shutting down the mental chatter and analysis so that you can play? I know many people who play fairly well and would play better, but they enjoy 'tinkering' and watching without ever letting go and allowing the mind/body to run fluidly.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Or how about the not so easy task of shutting down the mental chatter and analysis so that you can play? I know many people who play fairly well and would play better, but they enjoy 'tinkering' and watching without ever letting go and allowing the mind/body to run fluidly.

Paralysis by analysis.

Tracy

 

[ShootingArts]

viewpoints and perspective

Some years ago I had a hall of famer tell me what fairly small thing put him in the hall of fame. He was dead serious and being totally honest in his own mind. What he wasn't telling me was that this one thing was just the last grain of sand at the top of a mountain of things. Without the mountain under that one thing, he would never have even been noticed, much less a hall of famer.

Hu

 

[BVal]

Some years ago I had a hall of famer tell me what fairly small thing put him in the hall of fame. He was dead serious and being totally honest in his own mind. What he wasn't telling me was that this one thing was just the last grain of sand at the top of a mountain of things. Without the mountain under that one thing, he would never have even been noticed, much less a hall of famer.

Hu

so what was the one thing?

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Some years ago I had a hall of famer tell me what fairly small thing put him in the hall of fame.
Hu

Are you going to tell us, what it was, or which HOF'er you're talking about?

Tracy

 

[cdavis9771]

Just because someone can't beat you, doesn't mean they dont have enough knowledge to do you any good. Could Butch Harmon ever beat Tiger Woods? Hell no. But Tiger Woods is quick to credit Butch Harmon with making a lot of improvements in his game. He definitely had confidence in Butch's advice. Nearly all golfers on the PGA tour have a swing coach (unless I've been misled at some point). Are you saying those coaches are only worthwhile if they can beat PGA pros? If that were the case, their numbers would decrease dramatically (to zero).

-Andrew

Butch is a great golfer too and has had success at it. I am talking about the ones who have had no great achievements in the sport they are advizing on. Oh yea last time i checked Tiger fired Butch. Go figure.

 

[Bigtruck]

Back to the original topic!

I learned from an instructor that I was approaching my shots from the side and it was throwing my alignment off. I began to look at my shot,take a step back and approach from the front. My accuracy improved right away.

Ray

 

[cdavis9771]

They may know what it takes to do something but for many different reasons are hindered from executing a high percentage of the time. It could be poor eye sight, stroke flaws, bad nerves, excess pain in the shooting position and many other hindrances. Maybe it is an old ex-world beater, that still has the knowledge, but for some reason, the physical skills are gone. Knowledge and ability are not the same, IMO.

Tracy

I'll take advice from someone like him that has actually been there and done that. I'm talking about the ones who take the bca certification and pooof there a teacher.

 

[cdavis9771]

so what was the one thing?

bval is that your g'friend?

 

[ShootingArts]

that's the catches

First it wasn't the billiard hall of fame and second even if I told someone in that sport it wouldn't help them. Even had the sport been billiards, the one thing wasn't a magic bullet that would make anyone a champion which was my whole point. The advice has to fit into where you are at already to have any value. That one grain of sand didn't make a world champion, it was that grain sitting on a mountain of other grains.

Concerning the thread starter, advice that would cause a major jump early in the learning curve only adds a tiny increment near the top of the curve. Joey seems to be hoping for something to give him a jump in his game but in truth he is lucky when he still finds things that raise his best game a tiny bit more. Knowing the level he is at without knowing the details of his day to day play I suspect that the greatest improvement to his overall game would come from increasing the consistent quality of his game, shrinking the distance between his best and worst play during competition. That comes from yourself, both putting in the hours of grunt work and building the mental game.

Of course these are the thoughts of someone that plays worse than dirt these days!

Hu

Are you going to tell us, what it was, or which HOF'er you're talking about?

Tracy

 

[randyg]

I'll take advice from someone like him that has actually been there and done that. I'm talking about the ones who take the bca certification and pooof there a teacher.

I understand that, there's a lot of them. That's why SPF was introduced to a special group of BCA Instructors....SPF=randyg

 

[cdavis9771]

I understand that, there's a lot of them. That's why SPF was introduced to a special group of BCA Instructors....SPF=randyg

I understand now are people who can and people who do. Got it. By the way what is spf?

 

[Cornerman]

Joey seems to be hoping for something to give him a jump in his game but in truth he is lucky when he still finds things that raise his best game a tiny bit more.

Ummm... I assume you know Joey, being from the same area and all. I read the question, and I don't see him asking anything about himself at all. I thought he was asking if any of the instructors have learned anything from the pros.

For example (and I'm not an instructor), one thing I've learned from pros as opposed to learning from instructors is the time they spend on each shot, and the committment they make to the execution. I've also learned a lot of easier pattern play and decision making. Now, do instructor's teach this? Absolutely! But, they themselves would have to learn it from top flight players (who could be themselves) who are accomplishing things in action or tournaments.

Fred