Instructors!

[8pack]

You ever notice in some sports not just pool that students of what ever discipline play better then the one teaching.I mean if one is great at teaching something and knows everything about the sport why cant he reach the top level.Why can someone teach but not play as good as they teach.
No bashing me please im for all instructors..:smile:

 

[Maniac]

I am neither a good poolplayer or a good bowler (APA SL6 in pool, 154 average bowler). I do not have the physical ability to do either well. I have bad discs in my neck, chronic lower lumbar pain/spasms, two bad shoulders (one with a 15% range-of-motion loss), and poor eyesight. My pool stroke is wobbly, and when I bowl, I can't hit the same board twice in a row.

That said, I have helped MANY people in both sports with their games as I still have (and should always have) some intermediate knowledge of both games. A person with EXPERT knowledge can teach what he/she knows without being able to perform/execute the shots.

Maniac

 

[8pack]

I am neither a good poolplayer or a good bowler (APA SL6 in pool, 154 average bowler). I do not have the physical ability to do either well. I have bad discs in my neck, chronic lower lumbar pain/spasms, two bad shoulders (one with a 15% range-of-motion loss), and poor eyesight. My pool stroke is wobbly, and when I bowl, I can't hit the same board twice in a row.

That said, I have helped MANY people in both sports with their games as I still have (and should always have) some intermediate knowledge of both games. A person with EXPERT knowledge can teach what he/she knows without being able to perform/execute the shots.

Maniac

Well it sounds like you have physical problems that keep you from performing and btw i hope things get better for you.
But im talking about if one can execute why cant he perform as the guy with less knowledge.Maybe its is the physical side that hold some people back.

 

[GoldCrown]

Instructors/teachers are exactly what the are. They fine tune students to learn/excel. Do instructors have instructors? Why would they need one?
Most sports coaches (basketball,baseball) were great at their sport during their time.

 

[Ghosst]

There's a difference between an instructor and a coach AFAIK. In many sports, the coach can produce more sustained performance than an instructor. The instructor shows you how to get there, the coach keeps you there.

In pool, our instructors usually perform both functions.

 

[stumpie71]

I believe most instructors do or have played at a high level. Weather its golf, pool or any other sport we tend to look at the very best players and compare the instructors to them. Its an unfair comparison when you really think about it. Take golf as an example, an instructor that plays better then scracth (top 5%)but is compared to someone who plays it the top .01% of their sport.

 

[Maniac]

Most sports coaches (basketball,baseball) were great at their sport during their time.

But....there are MANY examples of coaches/managers that did NOT excel at their sport, too many to list. Some examples:

Baseball: Tony LaRussa, Tommy Lasorda, Connie Mack, Bobby Cox

Basketball: John Wooden, Dick Motta, Greg Popovich

Football: Don Shula, Vince Lombardi, Bill Belichick

These are just a smattering of names of great sports leaders that did not excel on the field of play in their respective sports.

You don't have to be able to do something well to be able to teach/coach it well.

Maniac

 

[cubc]

Why can someone teach but not play as good as they teach.
No bashing me please im for all instructors..:smile:

Teachers or instructors can be really knowledgeable and also quick to identify what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong. They may not have the coordination or the ability to do it themselves for whatever reasons, but they know how something should function or the physics involved, etc. You might feel something is right, but they can tell you what you're doing that you may not be aware of, why you're doing it, and how to identify it and correct it in the future so you don't keep making the same mistakes.

Now that being said there are a lot of terrible instructors that say a lot of things that are just outright bs and there are good players that try to teach, but are horrible at it. If you can find a great player that's also a great instructor and able to adapt to your style and improve it.. that's awesome.

 

[Roger Long]

A good instructor will be a good COMMUNICATOR: he or she will be one who takes solid information that comes from many qualified sources, translates it into words that "fit" the particular student, and then presents that information in a sequential order that lays the foundation for success.

Instructors, no matter how good they are, cannot "make" a student become a great player. Students must do that for themselves. The instructor just opens the door and points the way by "clearing up" many matters of confusion.

Coaches, on the other hand, may stay with the "student" for prolonged periods of time and act as a scout (observing what the competition is currently working on), as well as laying out schedules, practice routines, and physical training programs.

So, in answer to your question: instructors and coaches have chosen to aid others in becoming the best that they can be, rather than pursuing "greatness" for themselves. In short, they usually do not have time to work on their own game.

Roger

 

[SouthernDraw]

I believe that great players (no matter the sport) are usually poor instructors or coaches because what sets them apart is not their knowledge and understanding but their ability to perform under stressful situations. Great players are sometimes less patient and can't understand why a student doesn't "get it".

In entertainment they call it the IT Factor. Most coaches in other sports were not great players but were good players playing a role spot. There are some exceptions, like Larry Bird, that had a short but good coaching run. But he performed as a great player with less physical talent than many of his peers.

In pool, I believe this is even greater because it is a game of control that inches are the difference. Also the great players all learned the game at a very young age and its instinctual for them, this doesn't make teaching easy for them.

At least I don't know of any great players that learned the game after the age of about 20 or so years old. I could be wrong about this. I do recall that there was a world champion from the years of straight pool, pre 1950 I think. Somebody correct if I wrong.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[itsfroze]

I believe that great players (no matter the sport) are usually poor instructors or coaches because what sets them apart is not their knowledge and understanding but their ability to perform under stressful situations. Great players are sometimes less patient and can't understand why a student doesn't "get it".

In entertainment they call it the IT Factor. Most coaches in other sports were not great players but were good players playing a role spot. There are some exceptions, like Larry Bird, that had a short but good coaching run. But he performed as a great player with less physical talent than many of his peers.

In pool, I believe this is even greater because it is a game of control that inches are the difference. Also the great players all learned the game at a very young age and its instinctual for them, this doesn't make teaching easy for them.

At least I don't know of any great players that learned the game after the age of about 20 or so years old. I could be wrong about this. I do recall that there was a world champion from the years of straight pool, pre 1950 I think. Somebody correct if I wrong.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Danny DeLiberto learned later

 

[JCMn]

Several years ago, the Vikings brought in a specialist (coach / instructor) to break down the kicker and give suggestions on how to improve his game. The kicker was noted to be one of the tops is his field.... and he was in a wheelchair. I don't think he ever played football.

 

[BasementDweller]

I think a great pool instructor should be able to convey information without even picking up a cue to demonstrate. Using the "here watch me do it" approach is cheating if you ask me.

I think the problem that instructors that play less than great pool run into is one of credibility. But this problem is really more on the student’s part. They need to have faith in the instructor that they know what they are talking about. This leap of faith is done by researching an instructor's resume (testimonials) not by watching them run 100 balls.

I feel fairly confident in saying that I think I could help out a lot of people with their cueing fundamentals more than a lot of top-level players could. Of course I don't mean all of them. Lots of these guys know way more than I do. I just think a lot of the top-level players don't have to sort through all the stroking issues that we lesser players have to. I'm not saying they haven't put in the work because they most definitely have. I just don't think they have struggled with as many aspects of the game as us mere mortals. I've learned so much during the past couple of years as I've tried to straighten out my cueing. I'm a guy that played with a traditional closed pool stance and my final destination has led me to a snooker stance. Along the way, I've tried all kinds of different grips, bridges, strokes, eye patterns, you name it. I've figured out what works for me and what doesn't.

Now, I'm no instructor but if I ever were to instruct I think all my struggles would make me a better instructor than a lot of the guys that didn't struggle as much.

I also think that someone such as myself who is a bit older - pays a bit more attention (possibly to my own detriment) while I'm learning than say - someone who is 12 years old and is already firing balls in like a pro. By the time this 12 year old is 25 and playing lights out all the stroking flaws are so far in the rearview mirror that they just don't relate as well to someone who can't fire in a long straight in and draw it back.

Lastly, I think most instruction that I ran into when I was learning was more geared toward table management (patterns, safety selection, that sort of thing) as opposed to cueing fundamentals. I would give anything to go back in time and not listen to all the talk about how I need to "hit the ball here and put outside english on it and go around two rails for position." Instead I would have benefited greatly from hard core cueing fundamentals. This is what people get in snooker and I believe this is WAY WAY more important. But it's WAY WAY harder.

 

[randyg]

I think a great pool instructor should be able to convey information without even picking up a cue to demonstrate. Using the "here watch me do it" approach is cheating if you ask me.

I think the problem that instructors that play less than great pool run into is one of credibility. But this problem is really more on the student’s part. They need to have faith in the instructor that they know what they are talking about. This leap of faith is done by researching an instructor's resume (testimonials) not by watching them run 100 balls.

I feel fairly confident in saying that I think I could help out a lot of people with their cueing fundamentals more than a lot of top-level players could. Of course I don't mean all of them. Lots of these guys know way more than I do. I just think a lot of the top-level players don't have to sort through all the stroking issues that we lesser players have to. I'm not saying they haven't put in the work because they most definitely have. I just don't think they have struggled with as many aspects of the game as us mere mortals. I've learned so much during the past couple of years as I've tried to straighten out my cueing. I'm a guy that played with a traditional closed pool stance and my final destination has led me to a snooker stance. Along the way, I've tried all kinds of different grips, bridges, strokes, eye patterns, you name it. I've figured out what works for me and what doesn't.

Now, I'm no instructor but if I ever were to instruct I think all my struggles would make me a better instructor than a lot of the guys that didn't struggle as much.

I also think that someone such as myself who is a bit older - pays a bit more attention (possibly to my own detriment) while I'm are learning than say - someone who is 12 years old and is already firing balls in like a pro. By the time this 12 year old is 25 and playing lights all the stroking flaws are so fair in the rearview mirror that they just don't relate as well to someone who can't fire in a long straight in and draw it back.

Lastly, I think most instruction that I ran into when I was learning was more geared toward table management (patterns, safety selection, that sort of thing) as opposed to cueing fundamentals. I would give anything to go back in time and not listen to all the talk about how I need to "hit the ball here and put outside english on it and go around two rails for position." Instead I would have benefited greatly from hard core cueing fundamentals. This is what people get in snooker and I believe this is WAY WAY more important. But it's WAY WAY harder.

Welcome to Pool School.
randyg

 

[randyg]

You ever notice in some sports not just pool that students of what ever discipline play better then the one teaching.I mean if one is great at teaching something and knows everything about the sport why cant he reach the top level.Why can someone teach but not play as good as they teach.
No bashing me please im for all instructors..:smile:

Hard to serve more than one Master properly.

If one Instructs 40 hours a week, where is the time to practice or play.
randyg

 

[lee brett]

Welcome to Pool School.
randyg

Very true sir, i was coaching so much my game suffered. I then took a break and put the hours back on the table and have been in 7 finals in my last 10 events and in the cash 9 out of 10.

It's hard to find the balance

 

[Neil]

................

 

[Scott Lee]

Great answer Neil! Even more important about Jerry is that he decided to take the bull by the horns, and CREATE more and better instructors...something he has been doing for decades! Both Randyg and I owe our love of teaching to Jerry! Which brings me to this:

JERRY BRIESATH FOR THE HALL OF FAME IN 2012. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Actually, it is a good and a fair question. The simple answer is, they don't play enough to be at the top level. No mater how much knowledge you have, you still have to put in time on the table. When you know WHAT to do, you can put in a lot less time than someone that doesn't know what to do and has to figure it out by trial and error, but you still have to put in the time.

Most instructors have figured out that you can make a lot more money teaching the game than you can playing the game. There is no money in playing the game except for a very few. And, those few will change from year to year. So, looking at it long term, forget it financially.

I don't care who you are, you are not going to play your best unless you are out there doing it all the time. Those pros that don't play all the time still have to practice for a period of time before they go getting in a match. The old proverb of "use it or lose it" fits very well with playing your best. Your knowledge will stay. Your finesse will suffer with a lay off.

So, you end up with guys like Jerry Briesath. Guy can't even get on Joey A.'s list, yet he is one of the top instructors in the world, and used to be a pro player. He doesn't play professionally anymore, he instead has taken his pool career to a different aspect, namely, teaching. He isn't about to keep up with the current pros in playing today. Why? Just because he doesn't play anymore.

 

[8pack]

Great answer Neil! Even more important about Jerry is that he decided to take the bull by the horns, and CREATE more and better instructors...something he has been doing for decades! Both Randyg and I owe our love of teaching to Jerry! Which brings me to this:

JERRY BRIESATH FOR THE HALL OF FAME IN 2012. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Just wanted to thank you guys for your post.This forum has some great members and you guys are very knowledgeable. Talking about Jerry Briesath i have a instructional video of his and i think your spot on with him.
Beside Scott ,Randy,Roger,Stan and many others on here, he would be on the top of my list for sure.

 

[The Renfro]

Great answer Neil! Even more important about Jerry is that he decided to take the bull by the horns, and CREATE more and better instructors...something he has been doing for decades! Both Randyg and I owe our love of teaching to Jerry! Which brings me to this:

JERRY BRIESATH FOR THE HALL OF FAME IN 2012. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I am all for Jerry being inducted... He was the founder and the soul impetus for years in the US on instruction..... I do find most of the info taught to still be somewhat antiquated but fundamentals will always be a keystone....

I just dream of advanced classes that address things like the upstroke and the other changes of cue angle during the stroke and what they can accomplish... The Beard and Brumback have rendered much moot from the Dr. Dave Archives but the pendulum and the physics of the rolling ball still seem to to be the basis of most teaching.....