Integrity, the missing ingredient .

We need referees, especially in the semi-finals and finals.

(((Satori))) said:
I dont think I know you or him. I think its fine that he is wanting to correct a problem. I just think he could have left out the comments about pool players integrity.
Click to expand...

Yes, there's only about 5-8 players that do this repeatedly - you can tell if they touch the one ball, this is totally unnecessary.

I've played competitively for many, many years and no one ever tried that on Sigel, Hall, and Varner's watch......they would NOT have put up with it and we basically governed ourselves. I've said before that it happened to me and how I handled it......the behavior stopped immediately!

We need referees, especially in the semi-finals and finals.....there's no excuse not to at least have a referee in the finals, or if there's just one feature match.
 
Why are trolls allowed to ruin this forum?

Colonel, thank you for your well written post.

The problem is that I never made any generalizations that all pool players lack integrity. Not once. That did not happen. What did happen is somebody hiding behind a cowardly shield of anonymity, repeatedly lied and said that I did.

This just serves to illustrate the damage done by allowing posters like (((Satori))) to freely post whatever garbage they want. It is bad enough that he lies, but the real danger is that once somebody unknowingly repeats his lie, the next person to read the thread will certainly think that I said something I never did. After all, two posters said it and since hardly anybody can be bothered by actually checking their facts before posting, that next person will probably unknowingly post the lie again.

Obviously the problem will just compound itself at that point.


Let me clearly state that I do not think that all players lack integrity. Not even close. What I have said is that "The condoning of poor ethics is endemic to the pool world." and that "Bad sportsmanship is the default mode of tournament play, it seems. Even the most stand up players engage in some form of poor behavior."

Neither statement says or implies that all pool players lack integrity. The second one is in reference to tournament play only and still does not say that all pool players lack integrity. Furthermore, the second is based on what I have seen and is true.

Saying that players engage in some form of poor behavior is not even remotely this same as saying all players lack integrity.

More time wasted on repeating what I have said, in no small part due to one poster who is spamming this thread like they have done others. Really, what advantage is to be had by allowing trolls to derail threads?
 
CJ Wiley, it would not break the bank to have the finals with a ref presiding. I think that it is a good idea in general, even more important when matches are streamed or otherwise broadcast.

Btw, I really hope that you succeed with your new game. You mentioned it will be on a major network, that is huge. The holy grail in my mind, because as I have said so often as to make people sick, there will never be any money in pool until we have a game(product) that can get a TV broadcast contract.

I really hope you succeed.
 
Brian_Laflamme said:
Colonel, thank you for your well written post.

The problem is that I never made any generalizations that all pool players lack integrity. Not once. That did not happen. What did happen is somebody hiding behind a cowardly shield of anonymity, repeatedly lied and said that I did.

This just serves to illustrate the damage done by allowing posters like (((Satori))) to freely post whatever garbage they want. It is bad enough that he lies, but the real danger is that once somebody unknowingly repeats his lie, the next person to read the thread will certainly think that I said something I never did. After all, two posters said it and since hardly anybody can be bothered by actually checking their facts before posting, that next person will probably unknowingly post the lie again.

Obviously the problem will just compound itself at that point.


Let me clearly state that I do not think that all players lack integrity. Not even close. What I have said is that "The condoning of poor ethics is endemic to the pool world." and that "Bad sportsmanship is the default mode of tournament play, it seems. Even the most stand up players engage in some form of poor behavior."

Neither statement says or implies that all pool players lack integrity. The second one is in reference to tournament play only and still does not say that all pool players lack integrity. Furthermore, the second is based on what I have seen and is true.

Saying that players engage in some form of poor behavior is not even remotely this same as saying all players lack integrity.

More time wasted on repeating what I have said, in no small part due to one poster who is spamming this thread like they have done others. Really, what advantage is to be had by allowing trolls to derail threads?
Click to expand...
Is this the same guy who stated that "the current controversy surrounding racking in 9 Ball has shown a very disheartening view into the minds of many pool players."

The same guy who stated "What is so troubling is that many people seem to think cheating is acceptable, even admirable."?

Then you blame me for others seeing your statements the same as I did?

Earlier you tried to paint me as one of the ones who you say see cheating as admirable, yet Im the lying troll in your eyes.

Get over yourself!
 
So the fact that I did not say what I was accused of saying makes no difference? Instead of what I actually said(something that is easy to prove or disprove, btw) being the deciding factor of whether I said something or not, the real judge of what I said is your perception of my tone?

I don't want to be rude, but that does not make much sense.

The second point you are trying to make makes even less sense.

Apparently you missed my request for well though out posts.

It must have been my tone.


I will no longer respond to posts like this, if you don't have something to add to the real subject at hand, you will be ignored.
 
The game must be looked at like a Prime Steak that produces the same quality

Brian_Laflamme said:
CJ Wiley, it would not break the bank to have the finals with a ref presiding. I think that it is a good idea in general, even more important when matches are streamed or otherwise broadcast.

Btw, I really hope that you succeed with your new game. You mentioned it will be on a major network, that is huge. The holy grail in my mind, because as I have said so often as to make people sick, there will never be any money in pool until we have a game(product) that can get a TV broadcast contract.

I really hope you succeed.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and I wish you the same success in all of your efforts. Just be clear that not all pool players have an interest in touching the balls, or manipulating the magic rack.
Prime-Steak.jpg


The game must be looked at like a Prime Steak that produces the same quality {or product} in every game......is this too much to ask? Not at all. :thumbup: ....it's just a matter of time now, and it's exciting to think of pool back in the public spotlight in it's original essence, strategic format, and entertainment value.

This game never ceases to amaze me - I gave 30 hours of lessons in the last week and learned many components at an even deeper level......what other game has this much depth? Teaching, for me, is the best way to improve my own game. I gentleman just left my house that was an actual scientist (not the "forum variety" ;)) .....teaching him pushed me to some discoveries that were worth every minute of time.

Maybe this thread should have been "Integrity, the missing ingredient in a few" ;) You're absolutely right, the racking problems are a total joke these days......and not a very funny one. Even with referees the players SHOULD NOT be allowed to check the rack, just like poker players are not allowed to look at the dealer's top card. imho

Like I said, this game has been a huge part of my life for over 40 years and only recently has the rack and breaking issues reared it's ugly head so high.

Racking is always going to be a problem, however, we had referees back in the 90s, and it's easy to get volunteers that would be happy to be an integral part of the pro matches. It must be done, and the sooner the better!!! 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
I'm not sure why some people feel the need to jump on Brian's case for stating his opinion on what is wrong with tournament pool and asking for suggestions on improving the game. He's trying to do something about it, what are you doing? Keyboard warriors questioning the integrity of the man trying to make a difference. Welcome to AZ.
 
Perhaps your right CJ, maybe I should have chosen a different title. It was never my intention to imply that nobody has integrity. I thought that my first post made it obvious that I was referring only to those who cheat as without integrity.

I really cannot understand why I have to defend myself for things I never said.

I really do not understand how someone could come away with the idea that I said all players lack integrity, unless they were influenced by things falsely attributed to me.

Once again, here I am defending myself, when what I have written clearly shows that I should not need to.

If I really thought everyone was a cheater or lacked integrity, I would not have even started this thread, I would not be involved with pool at all.

At any rate, thank you for for all your input, I do appreciate it. My griping is not directed at you, I appreciate your candor. I am looking forward to your success.

****************************************
Thank you Baxter, as well.
 
itsfroze said:
#1) This post certainly has a different tone than your original post. Itsfroze

#2) This post certainly has a different tone than your original post. Hal Hughes

This has been a test.
Does the meaning change at all from statement #1 signed with my AZ name,
to statement #2 signed with my real name. I think not. Test concluded.



PS, Tip
Watch those tight doorways ! :wink:
Click to expand...

One thing I know is that Brian LaNobody has not shown the integrity to stand behind his original statement or admit he was wrong.

Lol, " I did not say that! It's (((Satori)))'s fault that you think that.":crying:
 
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The fact of the matter is , there is a integrity issue ,, not just on the racks we have seen more than one world class player blatenly foul and continue as business as usual , or players change thie identity by name or wear glasses and hats not to be reconized ,, some think it's cool and applaud such actions like they pulled off some kinda magic trick
Others on the other hand make rediculas statements like oh do you walk on water
I know many new generation players a list to long to mention , not one of them stoops to such levels ,,
So before we start bashing the OP because he says there's a problam maybe we should offer up suggestions to fix the problam
And before some moron asks me do I walk on water , no I dont but in the game of pool I've never thought about deceiving or cheating on any level and call a many of fouls on myself

So I'm more than proud to say I wish everyone could say the same

1
 
one stroke said:
The fact of the matter is , there is a integrity issue ,, not just on the racks we have seen more than one world class player blatenly foul and continue as business as usual , or players change thie identity by name or wear glasses and hats not to be reconized ,, some think it's cool and applaud such actions like they pulled off some kinda magic trick
Others on the other hand make rediculas statements like oh do you walk on water
I know many new generation players a list to long to mention , not one of them stoops to such levels ,,
So before we start bashing the OP because he says there's a problam maybe we should offer up suggestions to fix the problam
And before some moron asks me do I walk on water , no I dont but in the game of pool I've never thought about deceiving or cheating on any level and call a many of fouls on myself

So I'm more than proud to say I wish everyone could say the same

1
Click to expand...

As far as offering solutions... let me remind you of this from his op:


" I am not trying to get feedback on whether we should use magic racks, rack your own, loser racks, 9 ball or 1 ball on the spot, winner breaks/alternate breaks, Europeans vs. American methods, nor looking to hear any criticism about any specific player. There has already been many threads containing all the above and they have accomplished nothing, but to prove what a disorganized mess pool is.

Actually, more than anything, I posted this because I will not turn the other way now that I am fully aware of the magnitude of this problem, as a TD this is my way of shouldering the responsibility to deal with this problem and saying that the buck stops here. I will not have such a divisive issue take away from any future event I am involved in."


The O.P. reeks of you guys suck but I am going to fix it attitude.

He is acting superior, he dont need solutions, hes got it. Its like he just wanted to let us know that he is now on the case.
 
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As evidenced by Brian's Post Count, he is new to these forums
and may not realize that posting here can often be a
"Trial by Fire". In his Original Post it is not difficult to sense his
frustration with the practices of certain players, and his tone
obviously rubbed a few members the wrong way. I know him to
not be as judgemental as he comes across in his posts. If we
can all give him a bit of breathing room I trust he will appreciate
it.
As things stand, very little productivity is coming from the thread.
We move forward, then we back up. Let's pool our knowledge and
love for the game to make it better for each and every player.
 
making any type of "blanket statements" isn't fair to the ones not under the blanket

Brian_Laflamme said:
Perhaps your right CJ, maybe I should have chosen a different title. It was never my intention to imply that nobody has integrity. I thought that my first post made it obvious that I was referring only to those who cheat as without integrity.

I really cannot understand why I have to defend myself for things I never said.

I really do not understand how someone could come away with the idea that I said all players lack integrity, unless they were influenced by things falsely attributed to me.

Once again, here I am defending myself, when what I have written clearly shows that I should not need to.

If I really thought everyone was a cheater or lacked integrity, I would not have even started this thread, I would not be involved with pool at all.

At any rate, thank you for for all your input, I do appreciate it. My griping is not directed at you, I appreciate your candor. I am looking forward to your success.

****************************************
Thank you Baxter, as well.
Click to expand...

Just like you were misunderstood, it does go both ways. I'm pretty sure very few believe you thought "everyone was a cheater" - maybe you should just say who you DO think are cheaters instead of implying anything at all.

I do agree with much of what you've stated, however, making any type of "blanket statements" isn't fair to the ones not under the blanket.

AlbertEinsteinQuotes+pics5+genius+judge.jpg
 
CJ Wiley said:
Just like you were misunderstood, it does go both ways. I'm pretty sure very few believe you thought "everyone was a cheater" - maybe you should just say who you DO think are cheaters instead of implying anything at all.

I do agree with much of what you've stated, however, making any type of "blanket statements" isn't fair to the ones not under the blanket.

AlbertEinsteinQuotes+pics5+genius+judge.jpg
Click to expand...

Thank you for trying to help, but naming who I think is a cheater would hardly make things better.

I am curious as to what blanket statement I made that you are referring to.

It does not really matter, you mean well.

I am going to make a final post after this one.

I appreciate what you are doing for the pool world, I really am rooting for your success. If I can ever do anything for you, don't hesitate to ask.

I hope to meet you in real life someday.
Brian
 
I was repeatedly warned by many people that it would be a waste of time posting here. They were right.

I should have heeded their warnings.

I thought that if I posted something well written, making sure my choice of words and grammar said exactly what I wanted to say, I could avoid many of the problems.

My plan requires everybody who reads my posts to be able to comprehend what it says. If that were the case, there would only be one interpretation of what I said. Anybody would be able to figure out what I meant independent of each other.

Bad plan.

I never said all players were cheaters.
I never said that all players lacked integrity.
The condescension that the troll and his sock puppet found in my original post was found in the part that I meant to be an admission that I could have done a better job and a promise that in the future, I would.

It is my job to fix this problem. Of course I am going to sound like I intend to fix it.

I could go through and prove everything I said, but that won't help.

The real solution is simply to never post in theses forums again.



The negativity and stupidity displayed by some of the posters is amazing. Brian La Nobody? Are you serious? Only a child or a moron would think that is a clever thing to say. I know that is not very civil, but like the last time I was uncivil, what I said is true.

I know, I know, there I go acting all superior and better than though, again. As usual though, all the facts are on my side, not that it counts for anything.

Goodbye. No hard feelings, I hold no grudges, life is too short and there are far to many potential grudges to be had.

Cj Wiley, in no way are any of my comments about negativity, stupidity, or reading comprehension directed towards you. You have been a class act throughout this and I appreciate it.
 
Not to hijack your response Royce but to build on it, local events need to exhibit a bit of simplicity to attract the "C+" player who is looking to test his / her metal, this is where revenue begins and after many positive experiences not just by a player but a player and many friends...does an event grow. Jim Currier
 
And one of the most sincere people I've ever met in the pool world just got ran off the forums. Congrats guys, you won and everybody else loses.
 
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