Interesting observation in an old Mosconi vs Fats video

Well I just (re)watched that old video between Mosconi and Fats. Through all the bluster, and though Mosconi really didn't like Fats in real life, there was a nice moment of camaraderie at one point. Mosconi was on the 9 ball and he missed it badly. Looked like maybe it skidded. Anyway Fats makes the ball and during the racking you could see the two discussing Mosconi's miss. Mosconi gesturing about what happened and Fats nodding his head with what I would call "professional courtesy."

I'm reading this discussion about essentially who was a greater ambassador of the game, and I respectfully have to throw out my opinion that Mosconi was a far greater ambassador than Fats. Here's my reasoning: Nobody has mentioned what great impact Mosconi had practically right out of the womb. Here he is with his father giving exhibitions on a milk crate. Then, he's making newspaper headlines as the "sensation" who is battling the immortal Ralph Greenleaf in exhibitions all across the country. (He first played Greenleaf in 1919 at the age of 6 and subsequently went on tour with him). Then comes his dominance of the game for 20 years, which surely had to be inspirational to many, followed of course by his many ensuing years in "retirement" giving exhibitions sponsored by Brunswick. So here's a guy inspiring others by the quality of his play for something like 50 years.

In contrast, was Fats ever really known before The Hustler came out when he reinvented himself? Have you ever heard anybody say, "Hey I love that New York Fats. He's the reason I took up pool!" So Mosconi had been in the public eye since let's say 1920. The Hustler came out in 1961 after which Minnesota Fats was "born." I'd say Mosconi had a 41 year head start on Fats in the ambassador department.
 
One guy? Really, lol?!

OK, Dick, I totally get that lots of folks dug Fats and his banter and that he revved them up about pool. But a lot of us got a charge out of seeing Mosconi walk into our pool room for the first time -- white hair freshly groomed, impeccably dressed in coat and tie, wing-tips burnished to a glow -- and then racking the balls, rolling out a break ball, running 28, and then sitting down and saying, "I'm ready."

New city, new joint, new table, new opponent...and he'd run 100 and then make every trick and masse shot on the first try. On to the next city.

That he made it look *so easy, so effortless* got a lot of us right where we lived and we never forgot it.

Lou Figueroa

Lou, for a guy whos been around pool all his life, I have to say you are one very impressionable dude!..If I didn't know better, it sounds like you or Dan White, may have actually wanted to have some sort of sexual relationship with Willy?..Myself, I prefer to save those glowing, descriptions of 'unforgettable grace and beauty', for someone like Jeanette Lee, or Jasmine Oschan! :wink:

PS..No hairy-legged male pool player, could ever get me that spellbound, or excited to be in his presence! ;)
 
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Well I just (re)watched that old video between Mosconi and Fats. Through all the bluster, and though Mosconi really didn't like Fats in real life, there was a nice moment of camaraderie at one point. Mosconi was on the 9 ball and he missed it badly. Looked like maybe it skidded. Anyway Fats makes the ball and during the racking you could see the two discussing Mosconi's miss. Mosconi gesturing about what happened and Fats nodding his head with what I would call "professional courtesy."

I'm reading this discussion about essentially who was a greater ambassador of the game, and I respectfully have to throw out my opinion that Mosconi was a far greater ambassador than Fats. Here's my reasoning: Nobody has mentioned what great impact Mosconi had practically right out of the womb. Here he is with his father giving exhibitions on a milk crate. Then, he's making newspaper headlines as the "sensation" who is battling the immortal Ralph Greenleaf in exhibitions all across the country. (He first played Greenleaf in 1919 at the age of 6 and subsequently went on tour with him). Then comes his dominance of the game for 20 years, which surely had to be inspirational to many, followed of course by his many ensuing years in "retirement" giving exhibitions sponsored by Brunswick. So here's a guy inspiring others by the quality of his play for something like 50 years.

In contrast, was Fats ever really known before The Hustler came out when he reinvented himself? Have you ever heard anybody say, "Hey I love that New York Fats. He's the reason I took up pool!" So Mosconi had been in the public eye since let's say 1920. The Hustler came out in 1961 after which Minnesota Fats was "born." I'd say Mosconi had a 41 year head start on Fats in the ambassador department.


Well said, Dan.

Lou Figueroa
 
Lou, for a guy whos been around pool all his life, I have to say you are one very impressionable dude!..If I didn't know better, it sounds like you or Dan White, may have actually wanted to have some sort of sexual relationship with Willy?..Myself, I prefer to save those glowing, descriptions of 'unforgettable grace and beauty', for someone like Jeanette Lee, or Jasmine Oschan! :wink:

PS..No hairy-legged male pool player, could ever get me that spellbound, or excited to be in his presence! ;)


Dick, I'm disappointed that you would sink to the level of sexual innuendo. I thought you were better than that.

But putting that aside, I will now tell you this:

Mosconi's play was "unforgettable."
As a former vaudeville dancer, he was "graceful" around the table.
And, his 14.1 play was "beautiful."

If you want to make something homosexual out of that, knock yourself out. Or, you could apologize to Dan and I and prove you're better than that.

Your call.

Lou Figueroa
 
they are both ambassadors in their own way, it just depends on how you define ambassador.


the fact that we are still talking about both of them today proves the point
 
Fata lived the last part of his life as he deserved....good hotel, dined well and surrounded
by people who thought well of him.
He had helped a man earlier in life when that guy was broke...that man became wealthy.
Fats lived as his guest til the end....
Karma came through for this man who lived on the edge.

And yes, Willie got what he deserved also...he fought for his family all his life.

PT, Interesting..I never knew that about Fat's final days..Care to elaborate on it, or furnish a link for further review?..Thanks
..And not to make Willie less than he was, but what man wouldn't fight for his family?

This is all second hand info, Dick.
I was at the Nashville BCA trade show in '89.
I was told the name of his benefactor, but I can't remember it......
....Fatty was telling a story once and called him for confirmation....
....the man immediately left his office and came down to support him...he loved Fats.

we took a taxi one night to go clubbing..(I like C n W)....the taxi driver raved about Fatty...
...anytime his name came up, it seemed Nashville was overjoyed to have him.

Somebody on AZ may remember this man's name......

Wabash Cannonball comes to mind.

P.S. Ducky; It's more common knowledge than the meaning of "Rosebud":eek:

RBL
 
Dick, I'm disappointed that you would sink to the level of sexual innuendo. I thought you were better than that.

But putting that aside, I will now tell you this:

Mosconi's play was "unforgettable."
As a former vaudeville dancer, he was "graceful" around the table.
And, his 14.1 play was "beautiful."

If you want to make something homosexual out of that, knock yourself out. Or, you could apologize to Dan and I and prove you're better than that.

Your call.

Lou Figueroa

Lou,..I do not think I should be chastised for introducing 'sexual innuendos', per se..You know I was only kidding! I was just pointing out the fact, that most men do not speak of other men, as God-like, perfect creatures, which you (and Dan's) last several posts about Mosconi, seem to indicate you believe he was!..If the 'shoe fits', you must be prepared to wear it..How does that make me the villian!

WM may have been a great pool player, but in the grand scheme of things, my next door neighbor, Joe Schmuck, (who can't run three balls) was a much classier, likable and friendly individual..Please don't hold it against me for pointing out, that Mosconi was not!! :eek:
 
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Lou,..I do not think I should be chastised for introducing 'sexual innuendos', per se..You know I was only kidding! I was just pointing out the fact, that most men do not speak of other men, as God-like, perfect creatures, which you (and Dan's) last several posts about Mosconi, seem to indicate you believe he was!..If the 'shoe fits', you must be prepared to wear it..How does that make me the villian!

WM may have been a great pool player, but in the grand scheme of things, my next door neighbor, Joe Schmuck, (who can't run three balls) was a much classier, likable and friendly individual..Please don't hold it against me for pointing out, that Mosconi was not!! :eek:


Dick, again, from the outset, I think everyone concedes Mosconi was not the most likable of guys. No one is on the opposite side of the argument you are repeatedly attempting to make.

And no one is trying to say Mosconi was a beautiful man or person but instead that the way he played the game was beautiful. That's why you're off-base on two counts.

Lou Figueroa
 
Dick, again, from the outset, I think everyone concedes Mosconi was not the most likable of guys. No one is on the opposite side of the argument you are repeatedly attempting to make.

And no one is trying to say Mosconi was a beautiful man or person but instead that the way he played the game was beautiful. That's why you're off-base on two counts.

Lou Figueroa

Sorry Lou, but it appears you may be on the 'opposite side'!..Anyone who uses such descriptive terms as unbelievably beautiful,
graceful and god-like
, in describing a maie pool player, is leaving himself open for conjecture, ridicule.(or worse)..The phrasing most real 'guys/men' would use in describing Mosconi, would be..."Boy, for such a complete a**hole, prima donna, he sure was a hell of a f***in' pool player, wasn't he?"

Anyway, like I said a few days ago..its been fun, but we have exhausted our differences on the subject of 'Mr.Mouseconi', its time to move on!..Lets disect Efren, or Buddy, or Grady..But I would suggest you first seek other adjectives, 'cuz if you describe any of them as 'beautiful', you may be laughed off the forum! :grin: :grin: :grin:

Just to get you on the right track Lou, THIS is what 'guys' call beautiful...:)
06_extra06_msharapova_03.jpg
 
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Sorry Lou, but it appears you may be on the 'opposite side'!..Anyone who uses such descriptive terms as unbelievably beautiful,
graceful and god-like
, in describing a maie pool player, is leaving himself open for conjecture, ridicule.(or worse)..The phrasing most real 'guys/men' would use in describing Mosconi, would be..."Boy, for such a complete a**hole, prima donna, he sure was a hell of a f***in' pool player, wasn't he?"

Anyway, like I said a few days ago..its been fun, but we have exhausted our differences on the subject of 'Mr.Mouseconi', its time to move on!..Lets disect Efren, or Buddy, or Grady..But I would suggest you first seek other adjectives, 'cuz if you describe any of them as 'beautiful', you may be laughed off the forum! :grin: :grin: :grin:

Just to get you on the right track Lou, THIS is what 'guys' call beautiful...:)
View attachment 431761

So the only thing that makes a man a man is an attraction to women?

So any trans woman that Is attracted to a man must really be a woman. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Sorry Lou, but it appears you may be on the 'opposite side'!..Anyone who uses such descriptive terms as unbelievably beautiful,
graceful and god-like
, in describing a maie pool player, is leaving himself open for conjecture, ridicule.(or worse)..The phrasing most real 'guys/men' would use in describing Mosconi, would be..."Boy, for such a complete a**hole, prima donna, he sure was a hell of a f***in' pool player, wasn't he?"

Anyway, like I said a few days ago..its been fun, but we have exhausted our differences on the subject of 'Mr.Mouseconi', its time to move on!..Lets disect Efren, or Buddy, or Grady..But I would suggest you first seek other adjectives, 'cuz if you describe any of them as 'beautiful', you may be laughed off the forum! :grin: :grin: :grin:

Just to get you on the right track Lou, THIS is what 'guys' call beautiful...:)
View attachment 431761


Many sports fans have observed that Mosconi played a beatiful game of 14.1, or that Ted Wlliams had a beautiful swing, or that Muhammad Ali was graceful in the ring. Clearly, to append some kind of sexual connotation to any of those, would reveal some basic insecurities and homophobia that all the pin ups in the world cannot hide.

Lou Figueroa
 
Many sports fans have observed that Mosconi played a beatiful game of 14.1, or that Ted Wlliams had a beautiful swing, or that Muhammad Ali was graceful in the ring. Clearly, to append some kind of sexual connotation to any of those, would reveal some basic insecurities and homophobia that all the pin ups in the world cannot hide.

Lou Figueroa

Is this turning into a "takes one to know one" deal?
:grin-square:
Jason
 
Many sports fans have observed that Mosconi played a beatiful game of 14.1, or that Ted Wlliams had a beautiful swing, or that Muhammad Ali was graceful in the ring. Clearly, to append some kind of sexual connotation to any of those, would reveal some basic insecurities and homophobia that all the pin ups in the world cannot hide.

Lou Figueroa

Touche Lou!...Call me insecure, but I can't help myself..I just love 'beautiful' women! :thumbup: ..To see that adjective used to describe some 'hairy legged, sweaty (usually homely) male athlete..is to me almost blasphemy!..Why can't ya just say.."Boy that Ali floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee!"..Oh, wait..:o

I s'pose you would call Yogi Berra, a 'beautiful' catcher? ;)
6eys8cb8fv6msycm.jpg
 
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How do you measure pool players ?
One place Johnston City where the best came to play the best.
 
I was just pointing out the fact, that most men do not speak of other men, as God-like, perfect creatures, which you (and Dan's) last several posts about Mosconi, seem to indicate you believe he was!..If the 'shoe fits', you must be prepared to wear it..How does that make me the villian!

Where did I say anything that could even remotely be construed as sexual in nature, or even something rising to the level of "idolatry." I stated the facts as to why I think he had a greater impact on the game. Pretty simple.

Also, a guy walking around with the name "Dick" should be the last one throwing around accusations of sexual innuendo. (An innuendo is an Italian suppository, if you didn't know). :wink:
 
Touche Lou!...Call me insecure, but I can't help myself..I just love 'beautiful' women! :thumbup: ..To see that adjective used to describe some 'hairy legged, sweaty (usually homely) male athlete..is to me almost blasphemy!..Why can't ya just say.."Boy that Ali floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee!"..Oh, wait..:o

I s'pose you would call Yogi Berra, a 'beautiful' catcher? ;)
View attachment 431764


I love beautiful women too but I don't have any sexual identification issues. Believe it not I can even (gasp) describe a guy as "good looking" and not have to post up a lot of photos of semi-nekked women to prove to myself I'm still a man.

So I gotta ask a few questions: did you flip out when Fast Eddie, watching Fats play for the first time, whispers to Charlie, "Boy, he is great! Jeez, that old fat man. Look at the way he moves: like a dancer... And those fingers, them chubby fingers. That stroke... it's like he's, uh, like he's playin' the violin or something'."

Or did you have trouble addressing Danny Jones as Handsome Danny Jones?

And oh, by the way, are we even talking about the same Mosconi because the one I'm talking about spent his whole life playing pool in a tuxedo or coat and tie. Nothing sweaty about him. Here's some photos so you know who I'm talking about. Don't go all Phil Robertson on me.

Lou Figueroa
 

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Where did I say anything that could even remotely be construed as sexual in nature, or even something rising to the level of "idolatry." I stated the facts as to why I think he had a greater impact on the game. Pretty simple.

Also, a guy walking around with the name "Dick" should be the last one throwing around accusations of sexual innuendo. (An innuendo is an Italian suppository, if you didn't know). :wink:

Good comeback Dan'l..I stand corrected!..I can't do anything about my nick-name for Richard though..But I will say this, its the better part of a man..(sure beats 'Ricky' or 'Richie') ;) :p

Yes Lou..Willie is a 'beautiful' man..(.Ha ha ha hee hee!) :cool:
 
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Good comeback Dan'l..I stand corrected!..I can't do anything about my nick-name for Richard though..But I will say this, its the better part of a man..(sure beats 'Ricky' or 'Richie') ;) :p


We could just start calling you "Dickie."

Lou Figueroa
I kid, I kid
 
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