IPT...a thought to ponder

[Rude Dog]

I have a thought to ponder, what if this whole thing IS a scam, how much money would you lose if you are against the idea? And, how will it affect your life if you're against it? Not a damn dime, that's how much! Quit the speculation unless you got something to lose. Just a thought, not trying to start anything.

 

[ceebee]

Billiards is GROWING

There aren’t one in 5 million customers at Wal-Mart who would know who Mike Immonen is OR even what sport he plays.

You also say - I 'feel' that KT is an idiot who happened to have fallen into some good things.
Yeah, like most very successful business people - He finds that the harder he works - The luckier he gets.

TY & GL

You are correct. But, what if Mika & his buddies were on Prime Time TV every week on ABC or NBC or CBS or ESPN... would Mika would have to have a security guard with him?

Myself, I don't have a clue why KT decided to pump some cash into Billiards. Asking Billiards to be his ride, like Boxing was to Gillette, could be the trick, but Billiards is nowhere near the public draw that Boxing was 40-50 years ago or even now. Maybe he was enthralled by some high dollar match.

KT probably hasn't sold one book, to one Billiard Player, since the show began, but there are a few Billiard Players with some extra cash in their pockets, because of KT's involvement. If KT wants to put on a show & have Pool Players doing the "TRICKS", for a nice size "sack of cash", please let him continue.

Las Vegas got the POKER RALLY going, so their casinos would fill up again.

Billiards could possibly recruit some new blood, because some star-spangled pool tournament, with brite lights & celebrities, showed up on TV. If that happens & KT is rewarded with a weekly show, he'll get his reward.

If you want to see an Extravagant High-Dollar Billiards Show on TV, get a petition going in your Pool Room & send it to ESPN.... If ESPN got 5 million folk's signature, requesting this extravaganza on PRIME TIME... it will happen.

I'll bet every one of you, a dollar to a very good doughnut, that ESPN has never gotten any huge sacks of petitions from footballers or baseballers or basketballers, they just happen to thinks the mob wants to watch that S**T. As a result of that improper thinking, players are making millions of dollars, because TV represents money. I find ESPN programming to be a joke. Only a card carrying idiot would burn up 20 out of 24 hours on any one sport, unless they were a brain dead has-been jock. They are kidding the sponsoring entreprenuers that people are actually watching ...

Billiards was once GREAT. When other things to do, appeared on the horizon, people went off in that direction, because it was something new. Any person that has experienced the BCA or Valley Forge, can't wait until next year comes & they can go back... Those events are pretty close to an extravaganza. What if they were having an extravaganza somewhere close to you once a month, would you pay your $45 to attend?

Billiards is growing, please look at how many Cue makers there are. Look at all the case makers... the table makers, the cloth makers, the accessory makers, the magazines, the websites & on & on & on. Most of these businesses are making a profit, because they aren't dropping off the radar screen. All we need is some exciting pool tournaments, with some cheerleaders & brite lights & maybe the public will see Billiards as fun....again.

I vote for KT. Hmmm who is KT running against?

NOTE: If the Chinese are successful in getting Billiards added to the Olympics, things in the world of billiards will change rapidly....

 

[The Baby's Arm]

You are correct. But, what if Mika & his buddies were on Prime Time TV every week on ABC or NBC or CBS or ESPN... would Mika would have to have a security guard with him?

Myself, I don't have a clue why KT decided to pump some cash into Billiards. Asking Billiards to be his ride, like Boxing was to Gillette, could be the trick, but Billiards is nowhere near the public draw that Boxing was 40-50 years ago or even now. Maybe he was enthralled by some high dollar match.

KT probably hasn't sold one book, to one Billiard Player, since the show began, but there are a few Billiard Players with some extra cash in their pockets, because of KT's involvement. If KT wants to put on a show & have Pool Players doing the "TRICKS", for a nice size "sack of cash", please let him continue.

Las Vegas got the POKER RALLY going, so their casinos would fill up again.

Billiards could possibly recruit some new blood, because some star-spangled pool tournament, with brite lights & celebrities, showed up on TV. If that happens & KT is rewarded with a weekly show, he'll get his reward.

If you want to see an Extravagant High-Dollar Billiards Show on TV, get a petition going in your Pool Room & send it to ESPN.... If ESPN got 5 million folk's signature, requesting this extravaganza on PRIME TIME... it will happen.

I'll bet every one of you, a dollar to a very good doughnut, that ESPN has never gotten any huge sacks of petitions from footballers or baseballers or basketballers, they just happen to thinks the mob wants to watch that S**T. As a result of that improper thinking, players are making millions of dollars, because TV represents money. I find ESPN programming to be a joke. Only a card carrying idiot would burn up 20 out of 24 hours on any one sport, unless they were a brain dead has-been jock. They are kidding the sponsoring entreprenuers that people are actually watching ...

Billiards was once GREAT. When other things to do, appeared on the horizon, people went off in that direction, because it was something new. Any person that has experienced the BCA or Valley Forge, can't wait until next year comes & they can go back... Those events are pretty close to an extravaganza. What if they were having an extravaganza somewhere close to you once a month, would you pay your $45 to attend?

Billiards is growing, please look at how many Cue makers there are. Look at all the case makers... the table makers, the cloth makers, the accessory makers, the magazines, the websites & on & on & on. Most of these businesses are making a profit, because they aren't dropping off the radar screen. All we need is some exciting pool tournaments, with some cheerleaders & brite lights & maybe the public will see Billiards as fun....again.

I vote for KT. Hmmm who is KT running against?

NOTE: If the Chinese are successful in getting Billiards added to the Olympics, things in the world of billiards will change rapidly....

Football, Baseball, and Basketball S H I T? I bet you were the kid that everyone picked on in school because you didnt have any athletic ability. Therefore, you don't like sports. You are an idiot if you think ESPN just shows the big 3 sports primarily because they want to. It is a proven fact that they draw more viewers than all other sports. If chess or pool drew viewers, then of course they would show it more.

 

[ceebee]

Football, Baseball, and Basketball S H I T? I bet you were the kid that everyone picked on in school because you didnt have any athletic ability. Therefore, you don't like sports. You are an idiot if you think ESPN just shows the big 3 sports primarily because they want to. It is a proven fact that they draw more viewers than all other sports. If chess or pool drew viewers, then of course they would show it more.

I really didn't expect to be reprimanded, because I like Billiards. As a youngster, through High School, I was a great QuarterBack. I made all-stars every season in baseball, as a Catcher. I was a Professional Golfer for 3 years at Colonial Country Club in Ft. Worth Texas. When I suffered a car accident, I was done.

I happen to like all sports. I like hamburgers, but I don't just eat hamburgers. My thoughts & hopes are that Billiards becomes great again & they players are able to make a living doing what they like to do. I think it would great to see my life's chosen sport get on the radar screen & stay there. If that offended you,, that's just too bad.

... and No, I'm not an idiot.... there is more to life than baseball, football & basketball. I happen to think the overpaid players of those games, cause many a wannabee kid to throw his life away in search for fame & glory. That kind of scenario is even played out in Pool Halls, where some super stroking kid wants to be a Professional Pool Player. You know what a Professional Pool Player, without a girl friend is called... Homeless!

ESPN

 

[Jaden]

he won;t make a cent.

Okay, I just abbreviated a little. How about paying Mika (pardon my spelling error) to play kids on a real pool table in Wal_Mart. Or maybe someone besides Mika since he likes to beat the sh*t out of even young kids LOL. But Mike is such a nice person anyway he would do fine.

Also, subsidizing the sale of pool tables in the store. You guys wouldn't know how to promote prostitution!

I read the story of how he succeeded. Have you? I think he stumbled and got lucky. Wait and see. Will he fail? Probably not (except for pool) because he is smarter than Mike Tyson. Anyone with money will/should succeed. But I think he will fail at this IPT deal, unless he starts reading WW's posts . He has already stated that if it doesn't make money right off the bat, he will be getting out.

Just remember the hot shot coach (Spurrier) that came from Florida (or was it Florida State) to the Redskins. He failed miserably. He got lucky in life and ended up at a university were recruiting was no problem. Spurrier did get paid tons up front though, so this makes him smarter than KT.

This is what I am saying about KT. He got lucky early in life, but this is no guarantee that he will succeed at everything he does. You guys seem to think that this guy has the Midas touch.

I hope he succeeds at promoting pool, even if it means I have to eat sh*t. But the minute I heard that he wanted $1,000 for the entire set of DVDs, I knew he was approaching the Mike Tyson's intelligence level. This is my point. My main point. Put the Wal-Mart thing away for a minute. Any idiot knows that VCRs didn't start selling until they reached the magic number of $600, and this was back in the 80s. There is a magic number for the DVDs, and KT doesn't have a f*cking clue. What makes you think he has a clue about how to promote pool? His reputation alone? Get out of here.

Okay, the rest of you marketing geniuses, tell me what is right about the $1,000 price tag. I am all ears! Go ahead, put yourself on the line. None of you want to address the real issues, except for Shorty of course who thinks this is some pyramid scheme for crying out loud. Funniest thing I have heard all day.

Cheers. WW

If he only sells them as a total set for a $1000, then he won't make back the cost of production of them, but if he sells them not only as a boxed set but also individually, he will accomplish several things.

First he will sell quite a few dvd's at a pretty tidy profit. There are a lot of dvd's to include every single second of every single match. Another thing besides making some money will be to see which matches and which people the audience is most interested in seeing. The high price tag on the boxed set will ensure that people will want to buy the individual dvds making it easier to determine this. He can then better profile which matches to televise to better market the audience.

Those are just some things that can happen from the price tag on the whole set of dvds.

 

[OldHasBeen]

You guys wouldn't know how to promote prostitution!

Prostitution never has and never will need any promotion.
It sells itself - and once sold - It is sold again, and again.

As far as all the Wal-Mart exposure - It is a proven fact (not opinion) that TV is where success comes from.

I'm sure K.T. has had many failures as most tycoons have - BUT - That won't keep him from trying new things as long as he has the bullets.

I think the $1,000 entry fee is to offset some minor expenses and keep everyone that can chalk a cue from entering.

TY & GL

 

[ironman]

It's kinda cool how the AZ forum has turned into a marketing 101 class.

btw: Whitewolf gets an F-

Uh oh? Here you go again!

 

[Jimmy M.]

If he wanted to run a con job he could have found a group of people that actually have money. I doubt he's going to make much conning broke pool players.

 

[DougT]

All expense, no income yet

I am not trying to discredit Kevin T or the IPT in any way, shape or form...but something is bugging me and I have to get my cards out on the table so to speak.

I honestly get the feeling that this whole IPT thing is just another pyramid scheme to sucker people out of there money. I know, I know...no one has put any money in yet...but still. You ever get that rub from this whole ordeal? I mean the book...now the IPT...doesn't it seem like KT is just tapping yet another audience who has not figured out his pyramid schemes?

If I am wrong Kevin, then I offer my sincerest of apologies...but I was taught when something doesn't smell quite right, to stay away from it.

Just something I wanted to get off my chest, sorry if I offended anybody, but does anybody else feel this way, or am I a lone wolf?

Shorty

Shorty, to me the thing that doesn't feel right is that there isn't any source of revenue. It's all expense, and no income. I don't think there's any underlying MLM scheme, or pyramid scheme to take our money. The goal, IMO, is to spread the reach of the KT enterprises.

If KT thinks there's a sports business to build, that's not an unreasonable investment, altho the size of the risk doesn't quite fit the potential reward in my opinion. 'Owning' the sport, so to speak, does have some upside. $10-20M investment? Pretty large.

The comparison to sports like NFL, MLB, NBA etc are silly. Even the NHL has 200,000 or so season ticket holders, and some ratings pull for TV ad revenue. Like the internet, the money in sports comes from advertising, which requires lots of interested viewers.

In pool, like bowling or softball, there are millions of Americans that play, but not too many that would watch a program on TV regularly. Poker has interested fans that gamble and play poker, it gives an inside look like a reality show, and when coupled with a lottery-like payout you have your excited fan base. My favorite pool-hall sports-bar (forgive me, you purists) even pushes aside a half dozen pool tables on Sat nite to make even MORE room for poker tables to host no-cost poker tournaments. They sell way more drinks (and I'm told the loud music does that too).

I spent a little time at Border's Books today. Not one pool/billiard magazine. A couple of poker publications, and a zillion racing mags. Figure that.

I wish the best for the IPT, and am pulling for it to generate excitement for the general public. But without that interest, this is only a marketing expense for KT. If he figures the cost is worth the publicity for his other venture(s), then he can keep the machine running. Industry sponsorships will help off-set those expenses.

For those IPT diehards that think we're somehow unpatriotic for questioning KT's motives, let me say this. Any new idea or business must stand up to fair (and sometimes unfair) scrutiny. If you want to promote the new business concept, push hard on the IPT to give you the tools and resources to promote it locally, in YOUR pool halls and sportsbars. There has to be, in my opinion, a growing base of excited fans in this 'new IPT tournament structure'. This small window into the world here on AZ isn't going to change the world alone. Don't just drink the kool-aid and then chastise others for questioning.

I could be wrong, but those are my thoughts.

 

[SlimShafty]

No way this is a scam, it would be the most elaborate to say the least, KT could easily find many other ways to push products to the public with less money and less effort. KT sees something else here, this is a true effort to make something out of almost nothing. A fact everyone forgets is he LOVES pool and admires what took place with poker and thinks he can do the same or better, he is not only looking at the money, but gain what he wants even more, HUGE notoriety if he pulls this off, no question about that.

It's a calculated risk with a limit on what he will invest and what he expects, nobody goes into a venture like this without a risk assessment and a business plan. The world of pool is an amazing opportunity to make serious money, in real estate you look for the worst house in a good neighborhood, fix it up, market it etc.. Pool is an also ran, the ugly duckling and yet money is still made even without a major mainstream marketing push, a lot of this money is made in the amateur leagues and from specialty products. Add a professional tour with major spit and polish and marketing dollars then add an amateur 8-ball tournament scene to get the general population involved and you could be talking serious cash flow to drive his tour and line his pockets

He will have to invest millions before the corner is even turned, regardless of what the PR is, KT will be putting in more then he gets out for the first 3 years, BUT the return could be hundreds of millions and notoriety for doing what most thought extremely difficult if not down right impossible. I think the chances are a good.

 

[jjinfla]

Wouldn't it be interesting to be in a meeting with KT, Deno, John Denney, Lee Storms and other members of their team as they are discussing this new venture with the IPT. How much venture capital do they have to play with? Where is it coming from? How do they expect to make a profit? Do they expect to make a profit? Do they expect to lose big time with the IPT so they don't have to lose bigger time with the home company?

So far everything they have promised has come to fruition. And in a far bigger way than expected.

I imagine the Las Vegas match cost 2 million to put together and the Orlando one probably 4 million. Just numbers that I have heard tossed about but probably close.

So KT has spent around 6 million already. Very little coming in. A lot of red in his balance sheet.

People are fast to call KT and the IPT a con, a scam a pyramid. But keep in mind that in all of those the money comes to the con man not from the con man. Watch the money - follow the money. So far it is all going to the players.

I suggest the IPT players just relax and enjoy the ride and don't get into silly arguments on message boards like this one where absolutely nothing can be accomplished except disgracing themselves and getting a bad rep.

Does KT have rich backers backing him up? Will he form a limited partnership and sell shares in the IPT?

Jake

 

[OldHasBeen]

Tap, Tap, Tap & Who Cares?

Wouldn't it be interesting to be in a meeting with KT, Deno, John Denney, Lee Storms and other members of their team as they are discussing this new venture with the IPT. How much venture capital do they have to play with? Where is it coming from? How do they expect to make a profit? Do they expect to make a profit? Do they expect to lose big time with the IPT so they don't have to lose bigger time with the home company?

So far everything they have promised has come to fruition. And in a far bigger way than expected.

I imagine the Las Vegas match cost 2 million to put together and the Orlando one probably 4 million. Just numbers that I have heard tossed about but probably close.

So KT has spent around 6 million already. Very little coming in. A lot of red in his balance sheet.

People are fast to call KT and the IPT a con, a scam a pyramid. But keep in mind that in all of those the money comes to the con man not from the con man. Watch the money - follow the money. So far it is all going to the players.

I suggest the IPT players just relax and enjoy the ride and don't get into silly arguments on message boards like this one where absolutely nothing can be accomplished except disgracing themselves and getting a bad rep.

Does KT have rich backers backing him up? Will he form a limited partnership and sell shares in the IPT?

Jake

He sure as hell isn't going to hurt Pool.

TY & GL

 

[Colin Colenso]

His DVD sales won't cover his expense. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Come on, he just put over a million dollars out there. Do you think his DVD sales are going to make a dent in his losses?

Colin, are you listening? Marketing 101 about to take place here. Jaden, I did like your idea of the marketing after effects off selling more DVDs by selling them individually, which he is doing anyway.

When you put the big display up at Wal-Mart, you include a chance to win a $10,000 pool table. Say even 20 winners. Hell, KT has plenty of money, remember. But the entrants must register on a web site, get them to answer a bunch of silly questions so you can get the marketing information - you know the story. Once you get people addicted to pool, or hopefully a large number of them, then you start to approach TV. You have the registered users, those who bought your DVDs, and you have PROOF to move forward. Then to increase your viewing audience, give away pool tables to those who watch the real TV. Radio does this every day. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. All you have to do is have frick'n common sense. The key is to start working on the young people, and then they MAKE their parents buy them a pool table, and the kids start watching live matches on TV. And the parents start watching Jennifer Baretta! Oh, I could go on, but I hope you people get the sense that there is a lot more that could be done here, especially by a man (KT) who has deep pockets.

Yes, I'm listening. I said so much on these issues even I'm getting tired of listening to myself. Thought I'd give others a break.

For your in-store promotion idea. Using a star in one single distribution point is inefficient, unless it is part of a larger PR campaign and simply acting as an alternative venue.

Mika may cost 5k for the day, organization, signboards, rent of space etc could drive costs up to over 20k. That's a lot of sales to try try to make up for in that one venue.

I work for a company that is the biggest BTL marketing services company in China. We do tons of in store promotions, sometimes in hundreds of stores around the country in a single day. The model you mentioned has too low a return on investment. If you're gonna pay for a star to promote your product, you should use some form of mass media to increase the exposure.

I think the IPT is better off sticking to their broadcasting and introducing their new products into the content and trying to get their products listed with some big retailers so people can easily walk in for the purchase, or recognize the product on the shelves.

 

[icon]

"I honestly get the feeling that this whole IPT thing is just another pyramid scheme to sucker people out of there money."

how do you define a pyramid scheme? in what way is the ipt a pyramid scheme?

"I mean the book...now the IPT...doesn't it seem like KT is just tapping yet another audience who has not figured out his pyramid schemes?"

in what way is the book a pyramid scheme?

"Dave, you hit the nail on the head directly as to what I was trying to say...he just seems like a smooth salesman is all."

no, you said it was a pyramid scheme. now you are saying he is smooth salesman. one has nothing to do with the other.

"I once was told I could sell ice to the eskimos, so I must have some of that in me as well."

hmmmmm! really??? nah! you're putting us on? would'a never thought that! does that mean you participate in a lot of pyramid schemes?

 

[5ballcharlie]

Who ever said that Kevin T. is a philanthropist? He's not donating his hard-earned cash to hungry pool professionals. It would be naive to think this way.

First of all, he's a business man. He wouldn't do ANYTHING unless he thinks it will make him a buck in the long run. KT is not stupid...he's not a multi-millionaire because he gives money to the needy. He created the IPT to make money FIRST. Advancing the sport of pool is just a by-product of this business.

The question is...can anyone blame him for this? Why should we harp on him because of his primary motive for making money? We should actually be happy that Kevin sees this tour as a long term cash-generating machine, cuz that will ensure the financial future of the tour and our sport. Why would we be bothered if KT profits out of this tour? As long as pool gets the publicity it desperately needs, as long as the prize money stays the way it is, who cares if he's making millions from this tour?

Bottom line is...the IPT is a BUSINESS...just like every other professional sport. If you can't make money off a business, then there's no point starting one. I think the pool community should just be grateful that someone has the courage to invest his own money into this particular business.

I agree 100 percent

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I am not trying to discredit Kevin T or the IPT in any way, shape or form...but something is bugging me and I have to get my cards out on the table so to speak.

I honestly get the feeling that this whole IPT thing is just another pyramid scheme to sucker people out of there money. I know, I know...no one has put any money in yet...but still. You ever get that rub from this whole ordeal? I mean the book...now the IPT...doesn't it seem like KT is just tapping yet another audience who has not figured out his pyramid schemes?

If I am wrong Kevin, then I offer my sincerest of apologies...but I was taught when something doesn't smell quite right, to stay away from it.

Just something I wanted to get off my chest, sorry if I offended anybody, but does anybody else feel this way, or am I a lone wolf?

Shorty

A thought to ponder? What is there to ponder? You made this thread just because you 'get a feeling'?

 

[ceebee]

I imagine the Las Vegas match cost 2 million to put together and the Orlando one probably 4 million. Just numbers that I have heard tossed about but probably close.

So KT has spent around 6 million already. Very little coming in. A lot of red in his balance sheet. Jake

If KT really has a BILLION DOLLARS... Interest of .04% would generate $40,000,000 dollars.... So far Kevin still has $1,034,000,000 left. KT hasn't missed the $6,000,000 so far. He actually may look upon this expenditure as just having fun. I think the pool world should embrace what is happening & support it in any possible way. The IPT isn't costing us squat. The Camel Tour didn't cost us squat either, but we were disappointed when Camel had to pull the plug.

 

[Icon of Sin]

If it succeeds, pool may be in better shape then what it is now, with nationally reconizable names.

If it doesnt succeed, things will bethe same as now.

Either way, let Kevin give it a shot. We don't have much to lose.

 

[DaveK]

Thanks for the input Colin. I don't know what you mean by broadcasting. My only comment is: what broadcasting? Isn't this putting the cart before the horse?

<edit>

I agree that pushing the DVDs through the retailers is the only way to go, at least as far as I can see. I only had marketing 101 (35 years ago) and I am really am limited in this field.

So here's the thing, if you have an unknown product there is no demand and the stores have no interest in investing shelf space on something nobody is asking for. Sooooo, you buy a bunch of TV air time and promote the bejeppers out of your product. After some time you have brand name awareness and demand for your product, and 'presto' now the stores are interested. Getting retail interested in products is a funny thing sometimes. Getting a product on Opra (how do you spell Opra anyway) is another great marketing trick these days, no way you learned about that one in Marketing 101 either Merry Christmas Ray !

Dave

 

[Nostroke]

If it succeeds, pool may be in better shape then what it is now, with nationally reconizable names.

If it doesnt succeed, things will bethe same as now.

Either way, let Kevin give it a shot. We don't have much to lose.

No I am not letting Kevin give it a shot.

I am ordering him to stop. Kevin Stop it right now!!