IPT means do or die for bigtime pool

[smashmouth]

IPT failure means pool will NEVER reach it's rightfull place as a
bigtime spectator sport with big tv deals and high player earnings.

This whole IPT thing is really gonna allow us to gauge what kind
of demand there is among spectators for bigtime pro billiards in America.

opinions?

 

[Nostroke]

Right now there is no demand to speak of. It is the same old people and player friends going to the tournaments.

The IPT is trying to raise fan interest largely with the huge payouts, beautiful venues and injecting player personalities. Let's hope they can do it.

 

[JAM]

IPT failure means pool will NEVER reach it's rightful place as a big-time spectator sport with big TV deals and high player earnings.

This whole IPT thing is really gonna allow us to gauge what kind
of demand there is among spectators for bigtime pro billiards in America.

opinions?

The key word for me is highlighted in red: America

Pool in the American culture doesn't seem to have as good a fit as it does overseas, namely Philippines, Taiwan, and even some parts of Europe. This is my opinion as an American.

If it ever becomes apparent that there is no interest in pool here in the States, it would seem prudent to this writer that the IPT will contemplate taking its tour and moving it to predominantly overseas locations, where pool "athletes" or "professionals" will be welcomed with open arms followed by big bucks.

If you look at the audiences overseas compared to the audiences here in America, it is also very telling. Pool events are more of an attraction in other countries, enjoying sell-out crowds, instead of the same faces of friends, family members, and railbird road-runners that make up the audience on the American tournament trail.

Do you think TV exposure will elevate pool as a sport here in the United States? Most Americans stereotypically think of pool players as the hustler playing in a smoke-filled opium den, where women aren't allowed.

On the other hand, Germany and Netherlands, two European examples, think of pool players as "athletes." I seem to remember reading that Niels Feijen was/is sponsored by the Olympic Committee of his country. Foreign sponsorship may bring a much-needed infusion of money into pool, which will keep the IPT engine running.

Again, as an American, I don't like these kinds of thoughts popping in my head, but it is a possible reality that comes to my mind when wondering about a successful future for pool. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[jjinfla]

I believe the IPT is aiming for TV as the target audiance. The few people who attend the tournaments are family of players; the few people who are purists and like to watch how well the players play; and people who gamble on the players; and people in the business trade. The regular person just does not bother to attend because it is too boring.

I believe that is why the IPT staff is delivering a product that can attract the casual fan and they do that by jumping from player to player showing bits of several matches.

Hopefully they can produce a product that people will want to watch on TV.

From looking at the pictures of all the empty seats at the Las Vegas event it does not appear that regular people care to attend. I wonder how many spectators showed up? From the pictures it looks like only a few hundred. Considering that tickets sold for only $5 at the door that means that the players just can't draw spectators. If each player had a "fan base" of 2 they would have filled 400 seats.

It will be interesting to see the next product they put on TV.

Jake

 

[ShootingArts]

I can't agree in the long view

The IPT is likely to live long enough to damage other tours. To the extent that it does that it is important that it not fail. However, I fully believe that all the IPT is doing at best is moving the pool world ahead in time a decade at one jump. I have been around enough to remember a few hours of pool a year on television most years. There are five hours or more of pool on ESPN channels today.

I wish that the pool opportunities available today without the IPT would have been here in the seventies when I peaked as a player. Pool has came a tremendous distance in three decades and will continue to grow naturally. I hope for the players sake that the IPT succeeds but it doesn't seem to have any real underpinning and seems to be governed purely by one man's whim and depend on one man's fortune. Anyone that thinks the entire future of pool depends on the IPT's success should be very uneasy until and unless it becomes self sustaining.

Hu

IPT failure means pool will NEVER reach it's rightfull place as a
bigtime spectator sport with big tv deals and high player earnings.

This whole IPT thing is really gonna allow us to gauge what kind
of demand there is among spectators for bigtime pro billiards in America.

opinions?

 

[JAM]

...The regular person just does not bother to attend because it is too boring.

LOL, "Regular."

I believe that is why the IPT staff is delivering a product that can attract the casual fan and they do that by jumping from player to player showing bits of several matches.

Hopefully they can produce a product that people will want to watch on TV.

That people will want to watch and that sponsors will want to support.

From looking at the pictures of all the empty seats at the Las Vegas event it does not appear that regular people care to attend. I wonder how many spectators showed up? From the pictures it looks like only a few hundred. Considering that tickets sold for only $5 at the door that means that the players just can't draw spectators. If each player had a "fan base" of 2 they would have filled 400 seats.

I had thought it was $20 for the whole week and $20 for the finals for regular seating. [There's that word again! LOL] I got the regular seating, making me regular.

I never did like having a pool tournament in a casino. There are so many other attractions in that kind of a gambling environment, especially Las Vegas.

If an event was at a facility where there was nothing else but that facility, much like the Chesapeake Beach Conference Center for the U.S. Open, it may be that the audience would be larger because people would want to stay since there is no place else to go, but the pool tournament. They wouldn't be there in the first place if they didn't want to see pool.

It will be interesting to see the next product they put on TV.

I saw them shooting hours upon hours upon hours upon hours of footage, several groups of production teams. I'm anxious to receive the e-mailed IPT press release about when it airs!

JAM

 

[Island Drive]

As they say "its all good" and this venue (IPT) can only help in the long run. If it fails like we as humans do on a daily basis, another will come along and pick the good and remove the bad and create a better product.
I remember back in 91 at the US Open and it was the last time the women played with the men and broke out on their own. Allot of the men players in the following years were whining about the gals having TV coverage and the men wern't (its ok billy it'll be ok) and in the long run, by the women giving the game more exposure, they became a very important piece of the pulling the sport (Black Widow for example) out of the dumpster and on to the curb, and now we do have as another poster said, alot more pool on TV. Do or die, think not, well just keep doin and doin.

 

[Nostroke]

I remember back in 91 at the US Open and it was the last time the women played with the men and broke out on their own. Allot of the men players in the following years were whining about the gals having TV coverage and the men wern't (its ok billy it'll be ok) and in the long run, by the women giving the game more exposure, they became a very important piece of the pulling the sport (Black Widow for example) out of the dumpster and on to the curb, and now we do have as another poster said, alot more pool on TV. Do or die, think not, well just keep doin and doin.

And to this day, ther women have to PAY ESPN to put their shows on, hoping for the future 'Big Time' which is always just around the corner. Maybe my grandkids will see it but i doubt it cause i dont even have kids.

As far as pool being huge in Asia and Europe-The hype is way bigger than the reality. The WPC, arguably the premier event worldwide still has to have FREE tickets both in Europe and Asia/Taiwan to get fannies in the seats to look good for TV. For the preliminary rounds they still get no one. I was unpleasantly surprised to find this out in person

 

[JAM]

...As far as pool being huge in Asia and Europe-The hype is way bigger than the reality. The WPC, arguably the premier event worldwide still has to have FREE tickets both in Europe and Asia/Taiwan to get fannies in the seats to look good for TV. For the preliminary rounds they still get no one. I was unpleasantly surprised to find this out in person

Danny Basavich told me that when he was in Taiwan playing in the WPC, the McDonald's paper bags had the WPC logo on them which made me think that, at least in Taiwan, pool was pretty big time.

And I think I remember reading about a three-cushion tournament in Mexico which was PACKED with people, standing room only. One of the vendors was giving out free beer which was an attraction for many of the local drinkers, I guess.

JAM

 

[SplicedPoints]

Pool's big in Taiwan. But not so big that pool players are multi-millionaires and mobbed by adoring fans everywhere they go. Tournament payouts are decent; but most pros still have to have a 2nd income to make ends meet. Just like the States, but biggest financial winners in the sport of pool aren't the professional players in general.

 

[Craig Fales]

Do you think TV exposure will elevate pool as a sport here in the United States? Most Americans stereotypically think of pool players as the hustler playing in a smoke-filled opium den, where women aren't allowed.
JAM

That's incredibly still true here in America...J. Tong, the owner of Seyberts was planning on opening a nice bar/restaurant with a nice poolhall in the basement of an empty building he owns here in Coldwater...the city BSed all the way saying in order to get a liquor license he had to do millions in "repairs" to the building.... Now Moldwater has no poolhall....b*****ds....
________

 

[catscradle]

I believe the IPT is aiming for TV as the target audiance. The few people who attend the tournaments are family of players; the few people who are purists and like to watch how well the players play; and people who gamble on the players; and people in the business trade. The regular person just does not bother to attend because it is too boring.

You've hit upon the sad truth. As much fun as it is for us to play, pool is boring to watch; just ask my wife. Sometimes it is even boring for us who play, I can't count the number of times I've fallen asleep watching an accu-stats tape. Matter of fact that's one of my tricks when I can't sleep watch an accu-stats tape.

I believe that is why the IPT staff is delivering a product that can attract the casual fan and they do that by jumping from player to player showing bits of several matches.

It may or may not appeal to a non pool player, but it sends me, a pool player, to another channel.

Hopefully they can produce a product that people will want to watch on TV.

From looking at the pictures of all the empty seats at the Las Vegas event it does not appear that regular people care to attend. I wonder how many spectators showed up? From the pictures it looks like only a few hundred. Considering that tickets sold for only $5 at the door that means that the players just can't draw spectators. If each player had a "fan base" of 2 they would have filled 400 seats.

It will be interesting to see the next product they put on TV.

Jake

I think of the old adage "you can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear". As a spectator sport pool just may be the proverbially "pig's ear".
I personally think the Alan Hopkin's has done more the promote the sport (game??? take your pick) than Kevin Trudeau has come close to doing; maybe only as a side product of promoting himself but nonetheless...
The jury is still out, but ... well, I think I was born a skeptic ... as I recall my first thought as a new born was "I don't now about this breathing on my own thing."
However, I think pool will continue on in it's little niche even if the IPT fails miserably. If it fails, but in the process kills the current pool organizations, something like them will resurface in a few years.

 

[Craig Fales]

Personally pool has seen it's peak....it's not going to get bigger and better paydays because it's not a big spectator sport....sponsors just aren't going to pony up the big money because they're not going to see a return on their investment...not being pessimistic, just realistic...Kevin Trudeau is just promoting himself....so grab the cash while you can because he's going to drop pool like a bad habit as soon as he gets bored with it....
________

 

[TheOne]

Catscradle, I know I've asked this before but why do you think Americans find pool boring to watch but Asians/Europeeans can watch poo/snooker for hours ? Not just players either, the "regular" folk, old and young in their tens/hundreds of millions, why is that?

 

[memikey]

Craig........you should know from Uk experience that pool has been a total disaster as a spectator sport for the entire duration of its short (40 years or so) life there.

Venue audiences are tiny and even the majority of the players knocked out don't stay to watch the final.Television viewing figures have been a joke.

Jake hit the nail on the head earlier.....pool is boring to watch,big time boring,for all but a comparative handful of us.

If it can be done,and I'm not sure it can,to make pool interesting to bigger audiences pool will need a completely new approach.Boosting cash prizes and providing glitzy venues simply won't do it on its own.Let's face it,pool is inherently boring and unless the participants are given something like wrestling type caricature personalities for the mass tv audience to love or hate that mass tv audience isn't going to give a jot whether they are watching them play a boring sport for a 500/- purse in a pool hall or a boring sport for a 500,000/- purse in The Hilton.

 

[catscradle]

Catscradle, I know I've asked this before but why do you think Americans find pool boring to watch but Asians/Europeeans can watch poo/snooker for hours ? Not just players either, the "regular" folk, old and young in their tens/hundreds of millions, why is that?

Patience maybe?
I think you guilty of a little over-statement when you say "tens/hundreds of millions". I'm not sure even soccer (futball) gets ratings like that, but that's not important I get your point.
I don't really know why, but it is a pretty uniform response from Americans I ask. I think the only people in America who don't find pool boring to watch are people who like pool enough to play it frequently. It is not a sport you can enjoy unless you have a basic understanding of it. Much like baseball, you've got to understand baseball to not find it boring, Americans understand baseball and watch it. Action sports like football and basketball have their own appeal in the action whether you really understand or not. Most Americans don't understand pool, they think they do, but they don't. They have no appreciation at all of the skill involved in a well executed safety and it appears boring to them. Maybe a sufficient number of "regular" Asians and Europeans actually understand and appreciate the skills involved.
I consider myself a pool player, not in your class, but a pool player; yet, if I'm tired I quickly get bored with watching pool. It doesn't reach out and grab you, you've got to reach out and embrace it. If you don't understand pool, or you're too distracted or tired to pay attention, it loses it's appeal.
JMHO.

 

[TheOne]

Patience maybe?
I think you guilty of a little over-statement when you say "tens/hundreds of millions". I'm not sure even soccer (futball) gets ratings like that, but that's not important I get your point.
I don't really know why, but it is a pretty uniform response from Americans I ask. I think the only people in America who don't find pool boring to watch are people who like pool enough to play it frequently. It is not a sport you can enjoy unless you have a basic understanding of it. Much like baseball, you've got to understand baseball to not find it boring, Americans understand baseball and watch it. Action sports like football and basketball have their own appeal in the action whether you really understand or not. Most Americans don't understand pool, they think they do, but they don't. They have no appreciation at all of the skill involved in a well executed safety and it appears boring to them. Maybe a sufficient number of "regular" Asians and Europeans actually understand and appreciate the skills involved.
I consider myself a pool player, not in your class, but a pool player; yet, if I'm tired I quickly get bored with watching pool. It doesn't reach out and grab you, you've got to reach out and embrace it. If you don't understand pool, or you're too distracted or tired to pay attention, it loses it's appeal.
JMHO.

Sorry wasnt trying to jump on you I just dont understand this point that so often comes up. Strickland once said to me he thinks snooker is boring (in the context on comparing it to pool). I like snooker but you could probably make a case for that, given the rules are more complex and the games can often take a long time consisting of drawn out safety battles. So why do "regular people watch, and yes I wasn't joking about the numbers? Old women in the UK actually pay money and take their knitting lol to the snooker events year after year and watch hundreds of hours coverage on TV. If they can understand more complex rules and watch arguably more boring games then why can't Americans?

PS
A link about the 100million that watched Ding play a snooker final in China. Tens of millions watch Snooker in the UK and i'm pretty sure similar numbers watch 9 ball on start sports in Asia given the daily converage of pool over there.

EDIT...
Interesting IPT link also, 400,000 germans watch snooker EVER DAY on eurosport, plus te 100m in China

http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/news/article5.asp

 

[catscradle]

... Old women in the UK actually pay money and take their knitting lol to the snooker events year after year and watch hundreds of hours coverage on TV. If they can understand more complex rules and watch arguably more boring games then why can't Americans?
...

How much snooker are they watching as opposed to how much knitting and yacking they're doing. In that case, it could certainly just be a socializing thing. Something like the Superbowl here. I don't watch football all season, but every year I truck off to my friend's Superbowl party to play poker, eat Lasagna, and socialize with old friends.

 

[jjinfla]

Most Americans don't understand pool, they think they do, but they don't. They have no appreciation at all of the skill involved in a well executed safety and it appears boring to them. .

Exactly right. It takes considerable skill to understand how little a person knows about the game and how good the pros are.

Jam, change "regular" to "casual player" that might be closer to what I meant. LOL

Jake

 

[TheOne]

How much snooker are they watching as opposed to how much knitting and yacking they're doing. In that case, it could certainly just be a socializing thing. Something like the Superbowl here. I don't watch football all season, but every year I truck off to my friend's Superbowl party to play poker, eat Lasagna, and socialize with old friends.

I dont think it can be called socialising since theyre very strict at the venues, certainly no talking or youd be thrown out! Youd be suprised how much the casual watcher knows about the game, they often applaud complicated safety shots and know exactly when a game is won, what the key shots are etc. Maybe its just an American thing, since most of the world love FOOTBALL but its not so popular in the states.