IPT Million-Dollar Tour: The savior of American pool?

[lewdo26]

I confess to only skimming the thread because I'm in a crunch for time right now. I meant to write this post a while ago, and since this thread resurfaced, I wanted to make a quick couple of points:

a) I'm excited about this IPT. The reason being that I think it is IMPOSSIBLE to increase pool's popularity given the current disconnect between the lay public (which only knows 8 ball) and the initiated (who only know 9 ball). If pool has a prayer among other sports, 8 ball would have to be INCLUDED (which does not mean excluding other disciplines) as a feature of pro pool;

b) I think events such as this one could be very educational, to the bar-banging public and 9 ballers alike. The way it stands, bar-bangers don't even know 8 ball rules, and 9 ballers don't have a clue about the complex strategic planning properly-played 8 ball requires (I will not elaborate on this point since I started a thread and posted too much on it already. If you're one who thinks 9 ball is, oh, so superior to 8 ball, all I had to say is in those);

c) I really don't care whether the FTC nailed this Trudeau guy, because the FTC is itself crooked like a bag of snakes. ALL I'm interested about, is that this guy, or whoever is advising this guy, seems to know what he is doing. For one, the use of slow cloth and tight pockets, make the game not seem a banal runout fest like 9 ball is now. It will truly benefit the stronger player, and give commentators a chance to educate the public about how 8 ball should be played (it is usually played backwards by folks who don't know strategy). Trudeau also seems to know what he's doing because he's exploiting the men's vs. women's pro pool angle, which is cliche, but it could work. I don't know about Loree, but Mike Sigel is a master 8 baller, and from what I heard from people in this forum, unsurpassed by anyone but possibly Efren in this particular discipline. That's another sign Trudeau did some homework;

I'm hoping this will be played on Diamond tables too. That way maybe Diamonds will be more prevalent in taverns in the future and a regular size and weight cueball could be used.

All that I said above is in the spirit of reconnecting the lay public with pro pool. Kevin Trudeau's motto, "Real rules. Real pool. Real money.", addresses all that I've brought up: the need for bar bangers to know actual 8 ball rules ("real rules"); the need to diversify away from runout 9 ball ("real pool"); and the need to attract the glamour-loving public with the allure of cash ("real money").

I don't know if this is going to work out or not, but I think this APPEARS to be headed in the right direction, despite possible reservations. Hopefully the early-bird critics will end up with their foot in their mouth.

 

[Nostroke]

I wouldn't care if it was Kevin Trudeau or Attila the Hun. If there is a tournament offering $200,000 to $300,000 as a first-place prize, I will be the first in line to pay the $899 membership fee for my horse. If anything, it would give him incentive to practice every single day and exert 100-percent of his efforts into bringing his best game to the table. For that kind of dough, I'd imagine every single pool player in the world wouldn't mind risking a dime. This kind of cash infusion is EXACTLY what will change the current stagnation of pool as I know it now.

In reality,the lot so-called "professional-caliber" players in the States, especially the men, are suffering. Only a select few of the current members of the "governing body of professional pool" are afforded opportunities for financial gain, and even then, the expenses far outweigh the benefits.

If this venture takes off, I am in like Flynn! Bring it on, I say!

JAM

Hey Jam

I agree If it takes off, everyone will jump in but the debate at this point is whether it has a real chance to do that.

Somehow i dont think everyone is going to be as eager as you to put up 1K in the hopes that they might recover that down the road in a tournament that may never happen. The fact that he is charging an $899 membership fee tells me that he is not really ready to risk his cash for the future. He is hoping to recover it and more through this venture which IMHO is quite doubtful.

No one wanted to post their money for the 1Mil tournament 2 years ago and those organizers didnt have the background of Mr Treadeau.

No shot clock? I dont think he will find a TV outfit to agree to that not even GSN so who is his TV deal with?

8-Ball?- There isnt a more confusing game as far as rules go. i think 9 ball is a much easier game to follow for the General Public. The only thing that confuses newbie fans is the push out rule.

Still I hope i am wrong but for me personally, i will never be an 8-Ball fan.

 

[ScottR]

No shot clock? I dont think he will find a TV outfit to agree to that not even GSN so who is his TV deal with?

QUOTE]
Unless the match is shown live, will a shot clock even matter? Editing for television would work around that very easily (unless you are the editor sitting through 6 hours of tape!!).

 

[Jersey]

Rich Guys & 'The rest of Us'?

Snake Oil salesman these days are our Capt's of Industry, they have Lobby Groups and Mega $$$ Mkt'ing firms to make the rest of us think we can't live without their products...to fat?...got a pill for that; can't sleep?...got a pill for that...got no energy?...got a pill for that; to many cheeseburgers clogging your ateries?...got a pill for that too. My point is, anyone with Billions in their bank account probably has made some shady deals. The ones the rest of us hear about are the rich guys that piss other rich guys off, so they punch his card to bring him back in line. The Golf Channel is making legitamate $$$, can he do this for Billiards?...lets wait and see.

stepping down from the soapbox now...

 

[Tbeaux]

Hey Jam

I agree If it takes off, everyone will jump in but the debate at this point is whether it has a real chance to do that.

Somehow i dont think everyone is going to be as eager as you to put up 1K in the hopes that they might recover that down the road in a tournament that may never happen. The fact that he is charging an $899 membership fee tells me that he is not really ready to risk his cash for the future. He is hoping to recover it and more through this venture which IMHO is quite doubtful.

No one wanted to post their money for the 1Mil tournament 2 years ago and those organizers didnt have the background of Mr Treadeau.

No shot clock? I dont think he will find a TV outfit to agree to that not even GSN so who is his TV deal with?

8-Ball?- There isnt a more confusing game as far as rules go. i think 9 ball is a much easier game to follow for the General Public. The only thing that confuses newbie fans is the push out rule.

Still I hope i am wrong but for me personally, i will never be an 8-Ball fan.

Why should he risk his pocket change? He doesn't owe pool or pool players a damn thing. I think the "WHOLE THING" including the membership fee is testing the waters. If the players don't join the IPT and want to play they gotta come up with the grand thus cutting any possible losses he might incur. That's just smart business. The players who have been complaining forever about the state of pool are being tested to see if they're serious about improving things,if not Trudeau will just walk, without much loss (again smart business). I don't know if it will work out or not. But judging by some of the posts in this thread I'm wondering if it's just not in the nature pool players to "look a gift horse in the mouth" and then shoot the horse if it has an overbite.

Terry

 

[Nostroke]

Why should he risk his pocket change? He doesn't owe pool or pool players a damn thing.
Terry

I dont think he should risk his pocket change on this venture- HE said he was. He said he wasnt doing this to make money but then charges an unheard of 'Membership Fee'. Actions speak louder than words so this tells me he is not really willing to lose money to get his vision off the ground. This leads me to believe he will bail early. We shall see.

 

[chefjeff]

That is true. I was not able to read all the post because when I read the news I just want to see who the guy was. But still I know nothing about the guy. Never seen any pics of him.
Sorry for the duplication. deletted.

IF the BCA finals are shown on ESPN again (yesterday it was) then you can see Kevin sitting next to Mike Sigel. Kevin looked like he was having the time of his life with a big grin on his face.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Teddy Harris]

I dont think he should risk his pocket change on this venture- HE said he was. He said he wasnt doing this to make money but then charges an unheard of 'Membership Fee'. Actions speak louder than words so this tells me he is not really willing to lose money to get his vision off the ground. This leads me to believe he will bail early. We shall see.

Do you think the $899- lifetime membership fee is going to make up the guaranteed $5,000,000 prize for the IPT in 2006. If he gets 1000 members, that is only $899,000. I personally do not think he will get anywhere close to 1000 members until the second or third year. But I do think there will be plenty of interest. I for one, will pay my $899- and have at it. The membership fees will probably not pay for 20% of the expenditures the IPT will have in the first year. In every year following it will make up less of the total as the prize fund goes up. Let's say, for example that the first open tournament gets 1000 players, and the prize fund is a million...with the entries and lifetime membership fees the IPT collects $1,098,000 from the git. Not counting time invested, operational cost; advertising, website, staff, etc, the IPT is + $98,000-. Let me interject something here...I spoke to Mike Sigel in 1997 or so in Valley Forge, and he was already talking to Mr. Trudeau to set up a tour then!!! In 1997! This is almost 2006. They have been working on this for almost a decade! Maybe longer! The second tournament gets 1000 players, and the IPT collects $199,000- in entry fees, and there is a 20% increase in membership dues that comes to a total of $378,800-. Add that to the $98,000- the IPT is plus, and you have $476,800-. The prize fund is $1,000,000-, which leaves the IPT stuck $523,200- + the $150,000- the IPT put up for the Loree John/Mike Sigel challenge, of course that is not counting all those other things I mentioned earlier such as production costs, advertising, etc...need I go on! That is a total of $673,200-. Now if you take the invitational in December into account, you have 43 players that paid the lifetime membership fee of $899- you have $38,657- in fees and it is an invitational so there is no entry...the prize fund on that one is a million too! So a million bucks minus the fees is $961,343-. If you add that to the $673,200- you have a total of $1,634,603- the IPT is stuck in cash money towards the prize funds only, after the second open event. Every tournament after that the income gets less and less and the expenditures go up and up....as far as support from the pool players goes. Now, let's be realistic...we all know that the IPT tour is not going to get this much support. Pool players are just to nitty. I am sure that Mike Sigel has told Trudeau and I am sure that Trudeau knows the nature of hustlers as he is a hustler as well. He has the money, and he has the facts. Need I go on...It really does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this might possibly be the greatest thing to ever happen to pool!
I for one am with Mark Griffin & JAM and vote that we support this endeavor.
At this time I would like to send a shout out to Mike Sigel...Thank you!!!

 

[Nostroke]

Do you think the $899- lifetime membership fee is going to make up the guaranteed $5,000,000 prize for the IPT in 2006. If he gets 1000 members, that is only $899,000. ...Thank you!!!

I did the math Ted, I know it wont and i never said or implied that it would. It was to me AN INDICATION that he IS worrying about his money, despite that his press releases say the contrary!! IMHO he will not see this through if things get tough. Again-hope im wrong and this is the last ill say about the subject because apparently I can't communicate my thoughts all that well.

 

[Nostroke]

No shot clock? I dont think he will find a TV outfit to agree to that not even GSN so who is his TV deal with?

QUOTE]
Unless the match is shown live, will a shot clock even matter? Editing for television would work around that very easily (unless you are the editor sitting through 6 hours of tape!!).

Editing is easy but its not that easy editing every shot and still make for a good view but the real point is the production costs. From what i understand, it gets real costly and an extra hour can mean that all the teamsters, camera, sound guys etc get paid another DAYS pay.

 

[lewdo26]

I just read the Q&A section of the IPT website (although I was bothered that many other icons read "this section is still in progress. coming soon."). There they give their take on why 8 ball was chosen instead of 9 ball, the slow cloth and tight pockets, no siderail break, or jump cues, etc.

It comfirmed to me that either this Trudeau guy knows something about pool himself, or whoever is advising him does. His primary concern is with the luck factor in 9 ball, and making runouts too easy. And that's something I can get behind.

Just thought that interested AZBers might want to visit that section of their site...

 

[zeeder]

It comfirmed to me that either this Trudeau guy knows something about pool himself, or whoever is advising him does.

I think I heard that this guy Steven Segal is a friend and advisor of his on this venture. Then again, it might have been Mike Sigel, I've never heard of him either way!

 

[Barbara]

I just read the Q&A section of the IPT website (although I was bothered that many other icons read "this section is still in progress. coming soon."). There they give their take on why 8 ball was chosen instead of 9 ball, the slow cloth and tight pockets, no siderail break, or jump cues, etc.

It comfirmed to me that either this Trudeau guy knows something about pool himself, or whoever is advising him does. His primary concern is with the luck factor in 9 ball, and making runouts too easy. And that's something I can get behind.

Just thought that interested AZBers might want to visit that section of their site...

There was a writeup by Mike Panozzo in BD that explained why 8-ball was chosen. Trudeau believes the average viewer understands 8-ball better than 9-ball. Think about it, you were probably introduced to 8-ball as your first game playing pool.

Barbara

 

[bruin70]

Any thoughts?

JAM

a dress code like snooker and /3C.

the money will get the players in line.

ewa would have been a WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY better choice. but for draw power, lee would have been better. for competition, fisher or korr.

if it were to happen, i think we all knew it had to be on the world stage and not here in the us.

tougher tables...it's bad enough pool is the butt of jokes from snooker and 3C.

 

[King Kong]

Three Cheers for the IPT

I like what I hear. Only dislike is the jump cue rule. It takes a whole lot of skill to jump a ball. I like to remove the phenolic tips from existence but allow regular jump/break cues. All the other variations need to be turned into firewood. Especially the frog and the tadpole. What ugly looking things and same with those 15 mm giant jump cues.

I can live with 8 ball and play it jam up. Don't like the invitational B.S. as you have seen in prior post about the challenge match I do not like controlled pay days. We all should work for our money and earn it. But, some just look up and have it handed to them on a silver plater. Hear you go free money! Ha, HA, HA, hope you can beat a GIRL FOR IT!!!

I would certainly hope Mike Sigel wins. If he truely loses by some miracle and a savior is not in place I can see the tears and agony of defeat like those old ABC sports clips. They will have to have the man on suicide watch. It won't be pretty. But, oh well the odds of that are pretty slim.

Just some thoughts as I leave the office.

King Kong

 

[lewdo26]

There was a writeup by Mike Panozzo in BD that explained why 8-ball was chosen. Trudeau believes the average viewer understands 8-ball better than 9-ball. Think about it, you were probably introduced to 8-ball as your first game playing pool.

Barbara

That is true, and that's why I think 8 ball should be included as one of the disciplines in pro pool. That is if we are hoping to increase the popularity of the sport.

BUT, he goes way beyond that, Barbara. The Q&A section points out that there is too much luck in 9 ball. He also goes on to say in 8 ball, there is more strategic thinking. It also says that in slow cloth and tight equipment, runouts are not going to be the norm, so that'll benefit the player who can do it in truly challenging layouts. All of the above are points I agree with.

The first cue game I was introduced to was snooker, since I'm Brazilian. The first pool game I was introduced to was 8 ball, alright. And to this day I think it is a fascinating game.

 

[bgb]

I wouldn't care if it was Kevin Trudeau or Attila the Hun. If there is a tournament offering $200,000 to $300,000 as a first-place prize, I will be the first in line to pay the $899 membership fee for my horse. If anything, it would give him incentive to practice every single day and exert 100-percent of his efforts into bringing his best game to the table. For that kind of dough, I'd imagine every single pool player in the world wouldn't mind risking a dime. This kind of cash infusion is EXACTLY what will change the current stagnation of pool as I know it now.

JAM

All of the posts in this thread are amazing, but this one is particularly naive. That's just the kind of mindset that a huckster like KT preys on - if he's got big money sponsors or investors that are willing to put in excess of $5 million into the game (a game that gets national television coverage with purses at less than a tenth of that), then why the hell does he need $1000 per player? Smells pretty fishy to me. Remember, when it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

This is an obvious case of 'the operation was a successs, but the patient died'

Here's a counter offer - I'll get $1 billion invested in a series of 100 pool tournaments over the next five years. All I need is $500 from everyone who wants to take part in the tour (that's half what Trudeau wants!!). As soon as I get the money I'll send you your tour cards and schedule. It will be a resounding success - I promise. Please send checks or money orders.

 

[Teddy Harris]

All of the posts in this thread are amazing, but this one is particularly naive. That's just the kind of mindset that a huckster like KT preys on - if he's got big money sponsors or investors that are willing to put in excess of $5 million into the game (a game that gets national television coverage with purses at less than a tenth of that), then why the hell does he need $1000 per player? Smells pretty fishy to me. Remember, when it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

This is an obvious case of 'the operation was a successs, but the patient died'

Here's a counter offer - I'll get $1 billion invested in a series of 100 pool tournaments over the next five years. All I need is $500 from everyone who wants to take part in the tour (that's half what Trudeau wants!!). As soon as I get the money I'll send you your tour cards and schedule. It will be a resounding success - I promise. Please send checks or money orders.

First off, it is $899- for a lifetime membership and thereafter the entry fees are $199-. The difference in Trudeau and you is obviously that he has the money to do this tour. Your counter offer is ridiculous as we all know there is no way YOU could get a million dollars, let alone a billion dollars for a tour. I wonder what it costs to be a member of the PGA or the USTTA, or the Pro-Bowlers Association, etc.
All in favor of following bgb raise your hands! ROTFLMAO!

 

[bgb]

First off, it is $899- for a lifetime membership and thereafter the entry fees are $199-. The difference in Trudeau and you is obviously that he has the money to do this tour. Your counter offer is ridiculous as we all know there is no way YOU could get a million dollars, let alone a billion dollars for a tour. I wonder what it costs to be a member of the PGA or the USTTA, or the Pro-Bowlers Association, etc.
All in favor of following bgb raise your hands! ROTFLMAO!

Of course it's ridiculous, I don't have a website or a press release. I'm thinking of engaging with Tony Little for a spokesman, though.

By all means, feel free to send Kevin all the money he asks for, I'm sure he'll find a good use for it.

I couldn't find complete information, but it appears that yearly membership on the PGA Tour is about $10,000 - entry fees to each tournament are $199, but you don't pay the membership unless you qualify for the tour. However, if you are able to enter tournaments under sponsors exemption or through qualifying all that's required is the entry fee (i.e. non-tour members can play, as in the case of Michelle Wie). Exceptions are the US Open ($125 entry fee only), the British Open (100GBP entry fee only), and the Masters (no entry fee), though these aren't considered tour events. Yearly prize money for the PGA tour is just over $250 million for 48 events.

Couldn't find info for tennis - but in terms of golf, it seems they ask for 10 times the membership for a shot at 50 times the money. Obviously they don't offer a 'lifetime' membership because of course keeping a tour card is dependent upon finishing the year in the top 125 in the rankings, otherwise you have to requalify. This is another red flag on the IPT, by the way. A 'lifetime' membership seems unusual for a professional sports tour.

 

[JAM]

Of course it's ridiculous, I don't have a website or a press release. I'm thinking of engaging with Tony Little for a spokesman, though...I couldn't find compelte information...Couldn't find info for tennis - but in terms of golf, it seems they ask for 10 times the membership for a shot at 50 times the money...A 'lifetime' membership seems unusual for a professional sports tour.

With every new and innovative venture in pool, there will always be naysayers. This is understandable considering the history of American pool. Organizations have come and gone, and currently, there is still some unrest in the professional arena.

Pool is in a sink hole, the cost of living skyrocketing, pool payouts dwindling compared to 30 years ago, and the existing lot of professional-caliber players struggling to stay whole.

Earlier in the thread, there was mention of the $1-million tournament in Vegas which never got off the ground. In this instance, the promoters based their payout on a 250-plus player field on bar boxes, race to 21, with EACH pool player posting up $10,000 as an entry fee. It didn't get too many takers for this one-time event (not a tour). I believe these promoters had good intentions, but due to lack of advanced advertising, not enough qualifiers, and the 10-dime entry fee posted in advance (LOL), there were few takers.

I don't know what Trudeau's game plan is, but even if he were to get a full 128-player field, if each player decided to join and pay the $899 along with the $199 entry fee, he collects 140,000 bucks and some change, much less than the first-place prize of $200,000 or $300,000. It is a bold undertaking, and it has my full attention.

I am welcoming an entrepreneur who is ready, willing, and ABLE to put monies into a TOUR, and if one only has to shoot a dime to take a shot at winning this kind of dough, it will be SWEET. If it fails or goes under even before it gets off the ground, I'm not stuck a $10,000 entry fee as in the other million-dollar tournament. This is a tour, boys and girls! Big difference. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM