IPT Promises

Steve Lipsky said:
Gabber,

It is not KT's responsibility to hold the players' hands. It is probably difficult for a person like KT to understand the mindset of a 30 year old grown man who does not own a credit card. Or have a checking account. While obviously these types of people do exist, it is not KT's responsibility to go out of his way to cater to them.

You are clearly going to respond by just saying "Well he told them they were getting paid after each round" and perhaps you're correct according to the letter of the law, as it were.

Did these players speak to any IPT representative about their predicament? I am sure KT would have been happy to lend a guy an advance on his prize money if the situation were truly dire.

But to me, this all just sounds like the sour grapes of someone who is more angry at the lot he's chosen in life, at his inability to come up with some way to pay what amounts to a very small sum of money.

I say this in all seriousness: if you are a grown man and cannot figure out a way to deal with a situation like this, you need to re-think some things in your life. That's a much larger issue than KT re-thinking the payment schedule.

- Steve
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Nice response Steve (dear Abby couldn't have done better). I would think KT would be looking for the players to rise up rather than him having to stoop down to worrying about who needs handouts.

Wayne
 
pay

Gabber said:
Really, would it have been too much trouble to e-mail the players of this change BEFORE they got to the tournament? Pool players are not rich and some might have been banking on that money.

If the IPT wants my support all they have to do is be above board, open and fair.

Gabber
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Gabber do you know something that I missed somewhere? Why not tell us who the players were that were so upset over this!! If you are the doing the complaining then maybe you should write KT and tell him of your displeasure. I have talked to one of my good friends that was there and finished tie for 19 and he said he knows of no one upset so please enlighten us.
 
Steve Lipsky said:
Gabber,

It is not KT's responsibility to hold the players' hands. It is probably difficult for a person like KT to understand the mindset of a 30 year old grown man who does not own a credit card. Or have a checking account. While obviously these types of people do exist, it is not KT's responsibility to go out of his way to cater to them.

You are clearly going to respond by just saying "Well he told them they were getting paid after each round" and perhaps you're correct according to the letter of the law, as it were.

Did these players speak to any IPT representative about their predicament? I am sure KT would have been happy to lend a guy an advance on his prize money if the situation were truly dire.

But to me, this all just sounds like the sour grapes of someone who is more angry at the lot he's chosen in life, at his inability to come up with some way to pay what amounts to a very small sum of money.

I say this in all seriousness: if you are a grown man and cannot figure out a way to deal with a situation like this, you need to re-think some things in your life. That's a much larger issue than KT re-thinking the payment schedule.

- Steve
Click to expand...
Oh please. You guys are getting hysterical. I feel that I,m being attacked by the IPT Swiftboaters. LOL [ not you Steve].
KT refuses to pay when promised and I,m the bad guy? LOL....Geez. When I said 'a' player, it was a hypothetical player. I just imagined that it could have made things difficult for some players, possibly- but thats not the point.

Imagine, KT announces the change at the player's meeting and one guy out of the 200 stands up and says,


"Kevin, I am really thankful for this opportunity to make some RealMoney but I had to play 4 Qs before I won a spot in this tourny. With entry fee's, travel and living expenses, I'm already in for 8 grand. If you include the cost of this trip its 10 grand. In every Q I played it said on your website that you would pay after every round. If you were planning to change this arrangement, why did you wait till now to tell me?.....and.........Whats the reason for the change?"

If the Prizemoney is a big thing, then getting paid on time is ALSO a big thing- at least in any tourny I ever played.

Could it really be true that KT wanted them to stay longer because he was getting a kick-back on the rooms? Even if it meant only 20 grand extra?
After all, he is a billionare so he hardly needs the money!

The IPT is an International tour, lets not forget that. You will also see younger qualifiers getting spots and if you have to fly 1,000 of miles to play a tourny at great expense I think its important that players KNOW when they are getting paid.

I can't say it any clearer than this. If this isn't enough, I give up.


Gabber
 
I can't say it any clearer than this. If this isn't enough, I give up.


Gabber[/QUOTE]
Ok great give up
 
For the record.

..before it disappears...

When do the players get paid?

Answer:
This is very funny to me. The pool world is notorious for charlatans, promoters who don’t pay, and promises that aren’t kept. In my world of business, when a businessman tells me he’s going to do something and we shake hands, that means it’s going to happen. In the world of pool, when someone says they are going to do something it means he’s probably going to rob you! I’m joking of course, but there is a running line in pool that goes, “Winning the tournament was easy. Getting paid is the hard part!”

I find it amusing that so many players are concerned with actually getting a check from a tournament. Imagine if I put on a tournament and didn’t pay the players. I get enough criticism in the press. That’s all I would need is some more! Ha, ha. I write this with a big smile on my face because it is so amusing to me that players are concerned about getting paid. But to put all the fears at rest, when I had my first tournament with LoreeJon Jones and Mike Sigel I decided to bring out the money in cash - $150,000.00 in cash money and put it so that everyone could see that Mike actually got the money! Of course, right after the tournament since Mike and I are friends he said, “I don’t want to carry this money around, get rid of it. Give me a check later.” Ha, ha.

So, to make sure that the reputation of pool is actually enhanced from its previous dubious, less than stellar reputation, all the players at IPT events will be paid at the end of each round. We are working out the details and logistics, but the bottom line is when a player comes to the event, and if they lose and are knocked out of the tournament, the next day they will be able to walk into the cashier’s office and get a check for their tournament winnings. This is very exciting, especially with the upcoming IPT King of the Hill Invitational as the $1 million in prize money will be paid out on the spot. It certainly will be a very good Christmas for all 43 lucky players. And then, 30 days later, they come back for another payday at the end of January.
Return to Questions
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Gabber..........:)
 
pay

Gabber said:
..before it disappears...



Gabber..........:)
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It looks like you are the only who is worried about this. Do have a vested interest we don't know about?
 
oneballeddie said:
Anybody seen their Venetian pay check in the mail yet?
Click to expand...

Yes, I got mine on Thursday. I left the Venetian early last week and they mailed their check as promised.

Tammie Jones
 
Eieio59 said:
Yes, I got mine on Thursday. I left the Venetian early last week and they mailed their check as promised.

Tammie Jones
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That should be enough to silence the haters.


Oh wait, Tammie didn't get the check the second her opponent pocketed the final 8-ball that eliminated her from the tournament. Gabber won't be happy about this! :p


KT himself should have been right there at the table with his checkbook and pen ready to go.
 
Is it okay

Eieio59 said:
The Referral money was paid to the players upon getting their first official scorecard of the tournament, contingent on the player having filled out the correct paperwork.

The money earned by IPT pros for Qualifier Challenge Match wins ($1,000 for each win - for NO entry fee)..... was paid to the players on-site on Wednesday.

At the KOH tournament all players were paid at the same time... presented with their checks and having their photos taken at the same time. I assume that either KT misspoke "end of each round" for "end of each tournament" or that they ran into logistical problems for paying at the end of each round. I do know that the Venetian was not going to cash all of the checks anyway as we were given the names of two banks locally in LV that would cash them.

This was a tremendous undertaking for this staff. It is a LARGE staff but everyone was busy and, I for one.... think they did an awesome job. For being their first full-fledged event it was very impressive. They went to great length to do this "as right" as it could be done, especially on short notice. Anytime you deal with renting convention space, anything less than 2 years is considered short notice and this was done on about 9 months notice, making it very impressive. Simple things like giving us correct lighting becomes issues. They went out of their way to hang lighting trusses to give us at least directional type lighting where we would have had none. These trusses (I can only guess) probably cost them an extra $20-$30,000 for the week. The last convention space I rented was less than 20,000 sq for 3 days and they wanted $5,000 for trusses there!

When you deal with large venues such as this, your proven track record is what will get you a better rate, etc... Certainly you realize that almost every single tournament you go to you will pay more when you book at the players rate. For instance, at the Riviera for the league events. If you are a player in the tournament your rate is like $70. However, if you are a player with their casino you pay only $25.... big difference. Only the rooms booked under the tournament player rate count toward the tournaments record with that hotel next year. If you have 1000 people at an event but only 100 of them use the player rate, you won't get a good deal next year either. I'm sure you understand how that works. I, for one, stayed elsewhere myself. I didn't have a room mate and the rate was a little much for me to stay by myself. In the grand scheme of things however, I didn't save all that much either by the time I paid for hotel room (peak nights) and rental car and/or cab. I can only venture to say that many ten's of thousands of dollars were spent by KT to secure this venue and if my room rate is a little high, so be it. I'm willing to give the tour an opportunity to grow and prove itself so that it can get better rates down the road.

This forum is a great place for people to vent and to ask questions. Many of the IPT players follow it and will gladly answer any questions we can. If we can't give insight, then maybe Deno will hear and answer. In any case, it usually isn't necessary to lend an accusatory tone to any of this.

This was a huge undertaking. This was the tour's first major event and I for one think that it went well. They made mistakes and they learned from them. Heck, their tournament director wasn't even there so they had their second string in! How many tournaments of this caliber (oh, thats right.... there are none) are run in this great fashion their first time?

Instead of questioning all of the wrongs, let's applaud all of the things that they got right.....just ask Thorsten!

Tammie Jones
Click to expand...

to question some things now?
 
Eieio59 said:
The Referral money was paid to the players upon getting their first official scorecard of the tournament, contingent on the player having filled out the correct paperwork.

The money earned by IPT pros for Qualifier Challenge Match wins ($1,000 for each win - for NO entry fee)..... was paid to the players on-site on Wednesday.

At the KOH tournament all players were paid at the same time... presented with their checks and having their photos taken at the same time. I assume that either KT misspoke "end of each round" for "end of each tournament" or that they ran into logistical problems for paying at the end of each round. I do know that the Venetian was not going to cash all of the checks anyway as we were given the names of two banks locally in LV that would cash them.

This was a tremendous undertaking for this staff. It is a LARGE staff but everyone was busy and, I for one.... think they did an awesome job. For being their first full-fledged event it was very impressive. They went to great length to do this "as right" as it could be done, especially on short notice. Anytime you deal with renting convention space, anything less than 2 years is considered short notice and this was done on about 9 months notice, making it very impressive. Simple things like giving us correct lighting becomes issues. They went out of their way to hang lighting trusses to give us at least directional type lighting where we would have had none. These trusses (I can only guess) probably cost them an extra $20-$30,000 for the week. The last convention space I rented was less than 20,000 sq for 3 days and they wanted $5,000 for trusses there!

When you deal with large venues such as this, your proven track record is what will get you a better rate, etc... Certainly you realize that almost every single tournament you go to you will pay more when you book at the players rate. For instance, at the Riviera for the league events. If you are a player in the tournament your rate is like $70. However, if you are a player with their casino you pay only $25.... big difference. Only the rooms booked under the tournament player rate count toward the tournaments record with that hotel next year. If you have 1000 people at an event but only 100 of them use the player rate, you won't get a good deal next year either. I'm sure you understand how that works. I, for one, stayed elsewhere myself. I didn't have a room mate and the rate was a little much for me to stay by myself. In the grand scheme of things however, I didn't save all that much either by the time I paid for hotel room (peak nights) and rental car and/or cab. I can only venture to say that many ten's of thousands of dollars were spent by KT to secure this venue and if my room rate is a little high, so be it. I'm willing to give the tour an opportunity to grow and prove itself so that it can get better rates down the road.

This forum is a great place for people to vent and to ask questions. Many of the IPT players follow it and will gladly answer any questions we can. If we can't give insight, then maybe Deno will hear and answer. In any case, it usually isn't necessary to lend an accusatory tone to any of this.

This was a huge undertaking. This was the tour's first major event and I for one think that it went well. They made mistakes and they learned from them. Heck, their tournament director wasn't even there so they had their second string in! How many tournaments of this caliber (oh, thats right.... there are none) are run in this great fashion their first time?

Instead of questioning all of the wrongs, let's applaud all of the things that they got right.....just ask Thorsten!

Tammie Jones
Click to expand...

deleted, Responded to out dated post.
 
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macguy said:
That's all very nice but, It is not even worth talking about. Day one of the Reno tournament there was no money to pay and they knew it, case closed. All the other details don't matter. All other discussion just distracts from that one and only fact, they ran a tournament without the money to pay and that is inexcusable. You can write a dozen pages about how great the tournament was it doesn't matter. I keep being reminded of the movie "Meatballs" with Bill Murray. Remember the "It just doesn't matter" scene?

Repeat after me,
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
"It just doesn't matter"
etc, etc, etc,
Click to expand...
Tammie's post was made on August 1st.... a little more than a month before the Reno event (this is an old thread)... From comments made by her since Reno, I'd venture a guess that the two of you see more eye to eye than you're aware. ;)
 
Timberly said:
Tammie's post was made on August 1st.... a little more than a month before the Reno event (this is an old thread)... From comments made by her since Reno, I'd venture a guess that the two of you see more eye to eye than you're aware. ;)
Click to expand...

Timberly, thanks for bumping this thread!;)
All I ever did was state the obvious- based on the facts as I knew them and I was attacked for it. The warnig signs were clear and consistant.
There are a lot of people who attacked me in this thread who now have egg on their face and if they had the grace would apologise to me and say, "Gabber, you were right." LOL

eg, B.O said,
"Anyway, to stay a little more germane to the thread - I never said anyone else in the thread thought of KT's move to be a "conspiracy"..I just said that the likelyhood of him doing it for hotel kickbacks is pretty remote. Oh really? So remote, it would be like a conspiracy. Your words were never truer! He's paid out how many millions already between prize money, event costs, staff, leases/rentals, ads, TV etc..? What you mean is that KT SAYS he did and YOU believed him! A lot. He's not going to do that to the players to earn a little bit back. It's almost silly." Oh really?


Oh boy! Dont you feel almost silly now.

Gabber.....................;) :rolleyes: :) .more to come.:eek:
 
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NYC Dude,

"The players don't feel like KT went back on his word. He explained the payout format at the players meeting. No one there objected. Perhaps if they did, he may have addressed why he was changing his previous policies. The ipt is not a democracy. Things change and evolve. If the players don't like it, they can get up and leave.

Why are you so interested? You obviously have no stake in whether this tour succeeds or fails. If it is none of your business, perhaps you shouldn't start trouble where there is none."

Was I starting trouble or was I just stating the obvious??

I respect you and I like your posts but I thought this was uncalled for and it seems now I didn't deserve it.
The only reason the IPT went so far is because of greed. Every KT worshipper saw the money and only the money. They were scrambling over each other on this board to ingratiate themselves with KT, in the hope of making a Buck. Common sense went out the window.
When I questioned if KT could actually finance the tour I was attacked as a naysayer/KT hater and worse.

3 months ago the KT lovers- blinded by the cash- had complete reign over this board. Where are they now?

Gabber................
 
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There is no reason to get upset about the IPT situation.

The players are simply discussing the changes they want, it must be election fever. The voters gave up on Republicans now they want Democrats.

Players want contracts and agreements, not promises.

KT is the one coming with annoucements discussing his failures and inabilities to maintain business agreements. Main example the HO deal.

KT's investment in this venture market is short term. I know players that have dedicated their lives well over twice KT's age and less.

They left their culture and families that time is worth more than any sum of money.
 
Gabber, you were right and i was wrong.

Btw, it doesnt hurt to admit, when in fact, i am wrong. The realization that the ipt was never real, and that kt's intentions less than admirable, has been a REAL source of hurt for me for two months. Bear in mind that i have never had anything to personally gain, but my best friend has now lost what was percieved to be a REAL opportunity to earn REAL MONEY for a really long time. and incidentally, the 350k he won at vegas, turns out that 60 percent of that may not be REAL afterall.

Now many might realize my REAL motivations.

rg
 
Steve Lipsky...<<Did these players speak to any IPT representative about their predicament? I am sure KT would have been happy to lend a guy an advance on his prize money if the situation were truly dire.>>

HUH??????? In his own press release he dissed the FIFTY players who...according to him...did just that!!

Regards,
Jim
 
NYC Dude...<<sorry gabber,but you are way off base here. ive spoken to many ipt players, and of those, no one is unhappy, including thorsten.


HUH???????????????????????????

<<"In my opinion, it’s over,” said Thorsten Hohmann, winner of the $350,000 top prize at the IPT’s North American 8-Ball Open event in July.

Hohmann pointed to repeated inconsistencies and broken promises from the IPT, especially related to the delay in prize payouts from the World Open 8-Ball Championships in early September. “I’m the one who can leave with a smile, but it’s just not right what [Trudeau] has done – all the lies,” Hohmann said.>>
 
lol, ha haha ha

i received a private meassage that av84fun has been taking myself and steve lipsky to task in this thread over comments that were made MONTHS ago.

check the dates that correspond to the comments.

After all the lies and shennanigans, some of us have changed our minds with regards to the viability of the ipt.

In this case, someone dragged back out an OLD thread, because they were initially villafied for thier pessimistic views. Turns out Gabber was right afterall. I too was "guilty" in believing kt's GARBAGE.

Although, i don't really think this excersise proves anything more than gabber spootted the bullshit earlier, and that i do indeed have an open mind.

and JIM, kinda funny that you are quoting thorsten to me. Afterall, i speak/text him many times a day. Without tooting my own horn, i feel mostly responsible for thorsten finally waking up to the problems with the ipt. Afterall, he was their biggest winner, and for him, he has been shown the money, and with that in mind, for him, dreams die HARDEST!

rg
 
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