IPT Qualifiers - Will there be a prize fund?

[AuntyDan]

The IPT Qualifier system has been setup by the IPT to have a $2,000 entry fee for all players. However I have not yet seen any indication of what player's stand to win in these qualifiers other than the top 2 players getting a IPT tour card. I.E. If 32 players enter at $2,000 each that would normally be a $64,000 prize fund, less room expenses, so you'd expect a pretty good pay-out.

Does anyone know if any of the entry fees be paid back out to the players, to the host venue itself or does it all go to the IPT?

 

[Colin Colenso]

I don't think there will be any prize except entry into the IPT 2006 Tour. (Minimum Value = US$13k)

To estimate the Expected Value of that:
I expect at least 7 of those 8 qualifiers to make the top 100 in 2006 so would qualify for 2007 and guaranteed US$100k.
2006 total earnings for 8 players = 400k
2007 total earnings for 7 players = 900k
1.3 mil divided by 8 players = approx. 160,000k

And that just counts the first 2 years...which are supposed to be guaranteed.

So the average qualifier is likely to make somewhere around 160k...and who knows...could be over a million out of making it through. Not a bad return on 2k. Hard to resist for anyone with the ambition of being a successful pro.

 

[AuntyDan]

I don't think there will be any prize except entry into the IPT 2006 Tour. (Minimum Value = US$13k)

To estimate the Expected Value of that:
I expect at least 7 of those 8 qualifiers to make the top 100 in 2006 so would qualify for 2007 and guaranteed US$100k...

To play Devil's Advocate for a minute, you are assuming there will ever be another IPT event. If not even if you win a qualifying event you're still kissing 2 Large goodbye.

As far as I can see (And anyone with more information please correct me) the future of the IPT is currently guaranteed by nothing more than Mr. Trudau's personal statements and these are not likely to be considered legally binding. There is no contractual guarantee of either a minimum income, the total prize funds the IPT will pay out or the future existance of the IPT itself.

I'm not saying I think the IPT is a scam, just that it has very little track record and therefore I don't personally consider it a guaranteed source of income in it's current state. As such it seems odd to me to insist of this high entry fee given that 100's of players have simply been GIVEN a place. Why not just pick another 8 players in the same fashion from the top of the list of the original applicants who did not make the initial cut?

IMHO qualifying tournaments with such high entry fees should not be held until at least at least the end of the 2006 season, assuming all the proposed events have taken place by then so entrants can make a more informed decision on the risk and benefits.

 

[Colin Colenso]

True...can't be 100% sure. KT could get hit by a truck tomorrow..certainly hope he stays healthy and out of trouble

As an IPT member I've already spent at least 5k on related things, not to mention opportunity costs of practicing.

Sure it's a punt to some degree...but such is the life of a player. If it turns out as promised, sure could be a lot of guys kicking themselves...some are already.

No 100% guarantee that I know of, but gotta be veeeery tempting to any good - ambitious players.

 

[nfty9er]

I was born at night but not last night!

I totally agree with you Aunty Dan. I made this point several times over the past couple of weeks. And keep in mind I will support and root for this tour to be successful but this qualifying is not quite right. Some people who applied but got passed over for one reason or another now may have to spend up to $12,000 or more to try and qualify in 4 qualifying tournaments around the country. They have to pay in advance. What are there chances? Probably slim to none considering they have to finish in top two against some of the best players left over from a list that includes some not so good players relative to all the talent out there. Now lets use some common sense. If I wanted to qualify or take advantage of this tour a better route would be to play in the non member tournaments at $1,000 and then play next year for the 50 spots that are going to open up. Now if you are good you may win a bunch of money in the few tourneys you can pay your way into and if money counts toward a spot next year great if not you can still play in next years quaifying tournaments. You will spend a lot less money for a better opportunity.
I find it is easy for all the people already picked to encourage people to play and spend their money because it has not cost them much although some more than others depending on how you went about going to Orlando. I just do not like the reason they gave for not just picking the other 8, I believe they will cause more dissension by people playing with their friends and one cost them a bunch of money and their friend zilch. Everybody should start on an even keel.
Now if I was going to try and qualify, how stupid would it be to try at the DCC when for sure all the best players in the world not qualified will be there so my chances went from slim and none to none. Why not just go up to desolate and cold Mass. where the competition will probably be a lot easier for your money. I doubt if 16 players may show up there for that kind of money and chance.
So foget the qualifiers and just play on the tour for a lot less money and the qualifiers for the 50 spots. JMHO

 

[2wld4u]

I agree, I want to be apart of the IPT, really be apart of it, but with the 2g entry fee for a qualifier that will pay you nothing if you place 3rd? lol....


suddenly the BCA seems more attractive..

This is for ambition, for any joe blow to have a shot, or at least to lead joe blow to believe he/she might have a shot at something big, in reality youd proboly have a better shot at the lottery, the thing is jerry rigged.. I doubt they will even let good players in, they will meet you in the parking lot and take you out of contention.. lol


really though, it sounds to be a bit shady to me.. I'll just wait..


2wld4u

 

[AuntyDan]

True...can't be 100% sure. KT could get hit by a truck tomorrow..certainly hope he stays healthy and out of trouble

As an IPT member I've already spent at least 5k on related things, not to mention opportunity costs of practicing.

Sure it's a punt to some degree...but such is the life of a player. If it turns out as promised, sure could be a lot of guys kicking themselves...some are already.

No 100% guarantee that I know of, but gotta be veeeery tempting to any good - ambitious players.

I'm personally not worried so much about KT getting injured as simply deciding enough money has been spent on this particular idea without enough income to justify it. (E.G. Being unable to ink a lucrative TV deal, finding out tours like the WPBA have to actually pay ESPN to air their tournaments, having to put too much money into the hotel venues who don't get the extra revnue they want from the tournaments they host etc.)

BIG BUT - I'm not a pro-class player and therefore do not personally have to make the choice with either my money or my time. You do and, regardless of what I might think of the risks involved, I applaud you and everyone else who actually plays Pool for a living for your dedication and commitment to the sport.

 

[Island Drive]

The IPT Qualifier system has been setup by the IPT to have a $2,000 entry fee for all players. However I have not yet seen any indication of what player's stand to win in these qualifiers other than the top 2 players getting a IPT tour card. I.E. If 32 players enter at $2,000 each that would normally be a $64,000 prize fund, less room expenses, so you'd expect a pretty good pay-out.

Does anyone know if any of the entry fees be paid back out to the players, to the host venue itself or does it all go to the IPT?

So, if there are lets say only 6 players at the host qualifying site, then the 12grand goes back to the IPT and none is paid out? The event itself will be only a one day event, and the room owner, did they pay to have the event at their location, and if so how much. The key the way I see it, the people that do pay/enter this event, and are set up with their current situation/lifestyle to be able to play/travel to each event, and it will cost, with todays expenses $2,000 approx for each event plus lost work revenue if any of this group are on payroll. It almost seems like the player list/amount should be only 64, the 150 seems like allot to ask for, the WPA started out small at first.

 

[Island Drive]

To play Devil's Advocate for a minute, you are assuming there will ever be another IPT event. If not even if you win a qualifying event you're still kissing 2 Large goodbye.

As far as I can see (And anyone with more information please correct me) the future of the IPT is currently guaranteed by nothing more than Mr. Trudau's personal statements and these are not likely to be considered legally binding. There is no contractual guarantee of either a minimum income, the total prize funds the IPT will pay out or the future existance of the IPT itself.

I'm not saying I think the IPT is a scam, just that it has very little track record and therefore I don't personally consider it a guaranteed source of income in it's current state. As such it seems odd to me to insist of this high entry fee given that 100's of players have simply been GIVEN a place. Why not just pick another 8 players in the same fashion from the top of the list of the original applicants who did not make the initial cut?

IMHO qualifying tournaments with such high entry fees should not be held until at least at least the end of the 2006 season, assuming all the proposed events have taken place by then so entrants can make a more informed decision on the risk and benefits.

So when next years event comes upon us, lets say at AAA billiards in Big City USA and they are lets say 5 players short, will the host site then have a local qualifier to refill those vacant spots, and if so do all the entrants have to pay the two grand to enter, or something else to qualify??

 

[MikeJanis]

This is based soley on my opinions.

1st you have to assume that the IPT will be around for the next 2 years.

2nd you have to assume that you if you win a qualifier to get one of the 8 available tour cards you are guaranteed to win a minimum of $13,000 from the IPT in 2006.

With that said. It is my personall belief that KT does not want to hand pick 8 additional players or even have a commitee pick them because of all the slack he got for the way it was done the 1st time around. I think KT wants the best and only the most serious players to win a spot on the tour. By these players putting up the 2G's it will show how serious they are.

You arso have to remember that KT didn't put a minimum player cap on each of the qualifiers. That means that if only 2 players put up the dough for an event they are automatically qualified and are guaranteed an $11,000 profit each.

I don't believe the qualifiers are there to make anyone money. They are just there to get 8 of the best players in the world qualified to play on the IPT.

Also, as nft9er stated "better route would be to play in the non member tournaments at $1,000 and then play next year for the 50 spots that are going to open up" I don't think that by winning one of these qualifiers you automatically are a tour member. I'm pretty sure that it only qualifies you for that 1 event so paying the 2G's is a much better deal.

Mj

 

[AuntyDan]

With that said. It is my personall belief that KT does not want to hand pick 8 additional players or even have a commitee pick them because of all the slack he got for the way it was done the 1st time around. I think KT wants the best and only the most serious players to win a spot on the tour. By these players putting up the 2G's it will show how serious they are.

True, and if this is the case I'd have been happy if the IPT had started with qualifying events, rather than launching straight into full tour events. They would also have been able to use that time to shake out their format and organization. However clearly starting small and building up is not the IPT way.

You arso have to remember that KT didn't put a minimum player cap on each of the qualifiers. That means that if only 2 players put up the dough for an event they are automatically qualified and are guaranteed an $11,000 profit each.

That's a gross profit, not net after expenses. To earn that $11K they have to travel and stay are each of the tournaments involved in the putative '06 season, which you'd expect to be between $1,000 and $2,000 per tournament. So if there are 4 tournaments in the year to earn that $13K, and you pay $2K to qualify and $2K in expenses per tournament your profit is closer to $3K at the end of the year. Still not bad for coming in dead last and getting to play in 4 major Pool tournaments, but certainly not a living.

I don't believe the qualifiers are there to make anyone money. They are just there to get 8 of the best players in the world qualified to play on the IPT.

Again, if this is the core ideal of the IPT they should have been doing this from the start. However no use crying over spilt milk, now we at this point players wanting to get into the IPT have to make the best of what is being made available.

Also, as nft9er stated "better route would be to play in the non member tournaments at $1,000 and then play next year for the 50 spots that are going to open up" I don't think that by winning one of these qualifiers you automatically are a tour member. I'm pretty sure that it only qualifies you for that 1 event so paying the 2G's is a much better deal.

Mj

I think (If I'm understanding the IPT setup correctly) you are right here. A player would have to earn enough ranking points to get into the top 100 by the end of the season. Therefore entry into at most if not all of the available open events at $1,000 a pop would be required to amass enough points to compete with the existing IPT members who attend all the tournaments.

 

[rackmsuckr]

I think (If I'm understanding the IPT setup correctly) you are right here. A player would have to earn enough ranking points to get into the top 100 by the end of the season. Therefore entry into at most if not all of the available open events at $1,000 a pop would be required to amass enough points to compete with the existing IPT members who attend all the tournaments.

To keep your tour card for 2007, it is not based on points but purely monetary winnings. I am not sure if the 1-tournament player's are eligible to have their winnings count. In other words, if Alex won all 4 events (hypothetically, after qualifying for each event, but not for the 2006 tour), I am not sure if his winnings count against the 150 members' winnings.

 

[nfty9er]

True, and if this is the case I'd have been happy if the IPT had started with qualifying events, rather than launching straight into full tour events. They would also have been able to use that time to shake out their format and organization. However clearly starting small and building up is not the IPT way.



That's a gross profit, not net after expenses. To earn that $11K they have to travel and stay are each of the tournaments involved in the putative '06 season, which you'd expect to be between $1,000 and $2,000 per tournament. So if there are 4 tournaments in the year to earn that $13K, and you pay $2K to qualify and $2K in expenses per tournament your profit is closer to $3K at the end of the year. Still not bad for coming in dead last and getting to play in 4 major Pool tournaments, but certainly not a living.



Again, if this is the core ideal of the IPT they should have been doing this from the start. However no use crying over spilt milk, now we at this point players wanting to get into the IPT have to make the best of what is being made available.



I think (If I'm understanding the IPT setup correctly) you are right here. A player would have to earn enough ranking points to get into the top 100 by the end of the season. Therefore entry into at most if not all of the available open events at $1,000 a pop would be required to amass enough points to compete with the existing IPT members who attend all the tournaments.

Playing in the $1,000 non member tournaments is to make money which you cannot do in the $2,000 tournaments. Then beyond that the goal is to play in the qualifiers for the 50 spots that open up from the players that do not earn enough money for the 2007 tour card. So now if you beat them out you get your card. You do not have to crack top 100 as qualifiers for your card would not involve that. The odds of making those last 8 spots is slim to none like I said before and could cost you over $12,000 if you try all four. Trying to get in the top 50 that lost their cards would be a much better deal and easier. It works just like the PGA tour. Gives everyone a chance for a lot less money.
And I still disagree with the way they are doing it and their reasons, wanting to get the best. They had their chance for that and they don 't, so what difference is they pick 8 more. They are not going to step on anymore toes and I think everybody would rather do it that way. They are just trying to bring in some money, although they will eventually give it all back otherwise they would at least have minimum prize money. Makes no sense considering how great its set up now without this diversion. There are a lot of great players that do not have that kind of money, so you still may not get the best players in the world. Right?

 

[MikeJanis]

Playing in the $1,000 non member tournaments is to make money which you cannot do in the $2,000 tournaments.

No, paying the $1,000 is only to get into a qualifier then you have to win that qualifier to get into one of the events with the extra 50 players in it. It is much better to qualify by playing in the $2,000 qualifier events because then you get to play in all the events in the 06 season without having to requalify.

There are a lot of great players that do not have that kind of money, so you still may not get the best players in the world. Right?

Most any player worth their salt has 2G's available to them either in their own money or through a backer. If someone is serious enough about wanting to play they will come up with the money.

Mj

 

[MikeJanis]

Regarding those 50 spots that have a $1,000 entry fee.

It is my understanding that those events will run like this.

The IPT will have 25 qualifiers around the world. The entry fee to get into each qualifier is $1,000 per person. The top 2 players in that qualifier event will go and play in the event they qualified for. This process would be repeated for each event that will have the extra 50 player in it.

It is also my understanding that this does not entitle you to have an IPT tour card or qualify that person to be accepted next year in 07 just because they have a certain amount of monetary winnings. I think that only the top 100 money earners from 06 that already have a tour card are eligible to keep it for next year.

Again, this is why it is important to win your tour card by playing in one of the $2,000 entry fee qualifiers.

May I suggest that everyone play in the Marietta, GA qualifier. You could qualify for as little as $25 instead of the $2,000.

Mj

 

[rackmsuckr]

Regarding those 50 spots that have a $1,000 entry fee.

It is my understanding that those events will run like this.

The IPT will have 25 qualifiers around the world. The entry fee to get into each qualifier is $1,000 per person. The top 2 players in that qualifier event will go and play in the event they qualified for. This process would be repeated for each event that will have the extra 50 player in it.

It is also my understanding that this does not entitle you to have an IPT tour card or qualify that person to be accepted next year in 07 just because they have a certain amount of monetary winnings. I think that only the top 100 money earners from 06 that already have a tour card are eligible to keep it for next year.

Again, this is why it is important to win your tour card by playing in one of the $2,000 entry fee qualifiers.

May I suggest that everyone play in the Marietta, GA qualifier. You could qualify for as little as $25 instead of the $2,000.

Mj

Mike,

I love your idea of qualifiers for the Qualifier. I hope that it brings more people out to the Q. I also hope other Q's try that idea. It will take some of the burden off the players.

I think what nfty9er is trying to say is that there is one other Q for the 2007 tour card that is only $1000, when the bottom 50 drop off next year. It is just 1 event and I guess they are taking top 50 from that event and giving them 2007 tour cards. Unfortunately, they won't be on the tour this year. And the entry may be raised to $2000 by then too. That is just speculation - it could be lowered for all I know.

 

[watchez]

This is based soley on my opinions.

With that said. It is my personall belief that KT does not want to hand pick 8 additional players or even have a commitee pick them because of all the slack he got for the way it was done the 1st time around. I think KT wants the best and only the most serious players to win a spot on the tour. By these players putting up the 2G's it will show how serious they are.

Mj

I am willing to bet that there are at least 25 players (and probably closer to 50) that weren't 'picked' the first time around that could easily give 25 players that were 'picked' the 6 ball. With the way the original players were chosen, it will be 3 years before the IPT has the best of the best players.

 

[watchez]

Most any player worth their salt has 2G's available to them either in their own money or through a backer. If someone is serious enough about wanting to play they will come up with the money.

Mj

You want someone to back a player for $2000 hoping they are the best of the best and can come in 1st or 2nd in an event that will have Alex P., Shane, the 3 champions from California, Matlock, and who knows who else??? I guess you would have to hope it is true that most backers aren't very bright. Then if the player you are backing doesn't qualify, do you send him with $2000 to the next qualifier? Sounds like their will be even more busted pool players in the world after all these qualifiers.

 

[MikeJanis]

You want someone to back a player for $2000 hoping they are the best of the best and can come in 1st or 2nd in an event that will have Alex P., Shane, the 3 champions from California, Matlock, and who knows who else??? I guess you would have to hope it is true that most backers aren't very bright. Then if the player you are backing doesn't qualify, do you send him with $2000 to the next qualifier? Sounds like their will be even more busted pool players in the world after all these qualifiers.

watchez, you don't think that players like Stevie Moore, Hennesse, Steve McAnich, Mike Zuglan, Joe Tucker, James Baraks, Jeff Beckley, Bruce Berrong, George Breedlove, Brian Butler, Jeff Carter, Mike Coltrain, Tom D'Alfonso, Greg Fix, Scott Frost, Jose Garcia, Danny Harriman, Cliff Joyner, Jeanette Lee, Marco Marquez, Rafael Martinez (is he still alive?), Jason Miller, Johnny Brumback, BJ Ussery, Ron Wiseman and a whole boatload of other players can compete with the ones you mentioned ?

The list above is only a small portion of players that should try and it doesn't even mention the contenders from overseas.

$2G's isn't gonna make any of these guys or their backers anymore busted than they already are. Heck, 2G's is only 1 set of what they have played for. None of those guys are afraid to ship the dough when it comes to gambling.

For there backers to ship 2 to 10G's for their player to have a chance to win a couple hundred G's doesn't sound like a bad bet to me.

I just hope they understand how important it is for them to be one of the next 8 players on the IPT and they get their butts to a qualifier and try to win it.

Mj

 

[watchez]

Ok Mike,
You have just compiled a nice list to add to the players I already mentioned. And you have your credentials behind you that you have ran & promoted over how many pool tournaments? So with all this knowledge behind you plus the fact that an IPT player will make all this money in the upcoming years.....

What is your expectation for the qualifier at the DCC? How many players at the largest pool gathering of the top players? I previously posted that they should be happy with 32. I will let you know that I already know that Chuck Ralston, Matlock, Shane and these 3 guys from California are going to play. That leaves 26 more to get to my number (and 32 is a poor showing in my mind).

I have 2 G's because I have a job and can manage my money. This job and poor hand-eye coordination make it so that I am not anywhere near the caliber of player to be on the IPT or try to qualify. Unfortunately, most pool players don't have 2 G's and can't manage their money so 32 is still my prediction.

by the way, what happened to the post requesting sponsors for the IPT qualifier in Georgia??