What would you guess is Jonny's IQ? Or Scott Frosts? Or how about Tiger Woods? I would bet money that all of those guys amoung MANY others have above average IQ's. A big part of pool is the hustle and selling yourself into games and action, and having personality directly correlates to above average IQ's.
IQ and its relation to progression
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What would you guess is Jonny's IQ? Or Scott Frosts? Or how about Tiger Woods? I would bet money that all of those guys amoung MANY others have above average IQ's. A big part of pool is the hustle and selling yourself into games and action, and having personality directly correlates to above average IQ's.
The good old IQ debate, but what does it really mean? I remember scoring around 140 on my first IQ test when I was younger, got it up to around 150 with some practice. At 20 I suffered a TBI in a really bad car accident with over 2000 stitches in my head, it really changed me as I forgot many things and my once sharp mind had been damaged. It is mind blowing to have someone tell you that you are not the same person and trying to figure out who you once were. Even if someone tells you who you were it's not who you really are because you only truly know you and they can only say how they perceive you.
I think my high IQ hampered me in many ways, I found school very boring as I felt I knew more than my teachers and the whole thing was pointless. I remember growing up not having much but I did have a old encyclopedia and other older books, I would just read them and educate myself. I guess you could say I was self taught, I would go to school when I felt, do little to no homework, ace the test and pass my classes with around a 70-75 average, if I did homework I would have been a straight A student.
I got to the point I could not stand school so I quit at 17 and just got a GED. I even helped the other students in the class to get their GEDs as mine was a sure thing, anyone who has one will tell you its probably a freshman grade level test. Lets just say I did not want to be a part of academia or a piece of paper telling others I was smart or qualified to do something. I do have some regrets because sometimes when you are smart you think you know more than you really do and some lessons you cannot read in a book and that is where I learned the hard lessons in life, street smarts.
I think people with a high IQ can get lost in their own minds and at times it can be brutal and torturous as you try to figure out solutions to problems that really do not matter or have no logical solution. You can also be socially awkward because it is overwhelming when you are around a group of people especially that you do not know and are analyzing them and other things. I have met people much smarter than myself and its amazing how out of place they can be in certain environments and situations.
Can people translate IQ to an area of their life where they can excel and become great at it? That is the challenge to transfer the intelligence to something productive which some do not and up trapped in their own mind trying to find an outlet. I think we are all smart in our own ways and in different areas of life. Some pool players are geniuses in the poolhall but put them in a different environment and they might struggle to set an alarm clock. To them you are an idiot if you cannot run a rack or play at the level they are, when I say them I mean certain players and not all.
So my short answer in this long writing of a piece of my life story is that I think in pool I probably see some success in one pocket with a higher IQ as it is a thinking mans game with problems in need of a solution but you still need to have talent and execute obviously. So an IQ can benefit you in pool to some extent but talent and table time trumps IQ in the game of pool any day in my opinion. A person with a high IQ might over think things too and those doubts or negative thoughts might creep up.
I think my high IQ hampered me in many ways, I found school very boring as I felt I knew more than my teachers and the whole thing was pointless. I remember growing up not having much but I did have a old encyclopedia and other older books, I would just read them and educate myself. I guess you could say I was self taught, I would go to school when I felt, do little to no homework, ace the test and pass my classes with around a 70-75 average, if I did homework I would have been a straight A student.
I got to the point I could not stand school so I quit at 17 and just got a GED. I even helped the other students in the class to get their GEDs as mine was a sure thing, anyone who has one will tell you its probably a freshman grade level test. Lets just say I did not want to be a part of academia or a piece of paper telling others I was smart or qualified to do something. I do have some regrets because sometimes when you are smart you think you know more than you really do and some lessons you cannot read in a book and that is where I learned the hard lessons in life, street smarts.
I think people with a high IQ can get lost in their own minds and at times it can be brutal and torturous as you try to figure out solutions to problems that really do not matter or have no logical solution. You can also be socially awkward because it is overwhelming when you are around a group of people especially that you do not know and are analyzing them and other things. I have met people much smarter than myself and its amazing how out of place they can be in certain environments and situations.
Can people translate IQ to an area of their life where they can excel and become great at it? That is the challenge to transfer the intelligence to something productive which some do not and up trapped in their own mind trying to find an outlet. I think we are all smart in our own ways and in different areas of life. Some pool players are geniuses in the poolhall but put them in a different environment and they might struggle to set an alarm clock. To them you are an idiot if you cannot run a rack or play at the level they are, when I say them I mean certain players and not all.
So my short answer in this long writing of a piece of my life story is that I think in pool I probably see some success in one pocket with a higher IQ as it is a thinking mans game with problems in need of a solution but you still need to have talent and execute obviously. So an IQ can benefit you in pool to some extent but talent and table time trumps IQ in the game of pool any day in my opinion. A person with a high IQ might over think things too and those doubts or negative thoughts might creep up.
I am not sure of any of the IQ scores but I did offer Scott a 10 point handicap in an IQ test one time but I could have been putting myself into a trap. I am sure he could spot me 10 points or more in a poolroom IQ test though, haha. I do know that Muhammad Ali had a reported 78 IQ!, many would think he was much smarter then that with how he spoke.
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I almost forgot to say that Stephen Hawking said that people with high IQs beat their chest and who brag about scores are losers. He is right and those with high scores should do something with it and show how smart they really are instead of saying how smart they think they are. :wink:
Two players have the same experience in pocket billiards which is none, One has double the IQ of the other player. They both go on the same practice regimen for one year: By how much would the progression of the higher IQ player exceed the others if the both had the same desire to improve?
Maybe this question cant be accurately answered or have any relevance to most of us but input is still appreciated.
Unanswerable.
First, no two people can have the same experince even when doing the same thing.
Second, the practice routine that works for one will not work for the other.
Third, no two people learn nor develop at the same rate.
Fourth, great pool shooting comes from the heart not the mind.
Now if you are trying to figure out how fast you may improve because you have a high.IQ, well it dont work that way in pool.
My own life mirrors much of this aside from the accident. 150 IQ score as a child, made it through school on test scores no homework, I graduated but dropped out of college. It wasn't until working as a low level professional in the corporate world that I understood how far a high IQ can carry you without actually applying those abilities. I still manage to give off the impression that I'm intelligent to most people I speak with, though I'm never condesending or arrogant. I'm very mindful of what I don't know that others may and IQ isn't a factor. Hell, this thread is probably the first time I've stated my IQ in a very long time. That said, I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the concepts of english and position play and I've played off and on for years. I probably take 2-3x longer then an opponent on average to decide on a shot, especially early in a game. *If I could find the right way of learning all the concepts needed to be an excellent pool player I would probably improve my game quicker but videos and books haven't done it for me just yet.
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OK...you bragged about being at 150. What have you done with it?
For perspective I have had two students in the past year with diffuse axonal injury from TBI suffered in an MVAs. One of them had been in a coma for six months, both had to learn to speak and walk again and both were completely "different people" after the accident.
Both went to medical school and both had trouble with their boards, that's why they came to me. Both of them ultimately aced their boards, got their first choice residency, and are in residency now.
I am quite privileged to work very closely with very bright people (High IQs) every day.
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It took me a while to figure it out, but there's a huge difference between 'knowledge' and 'applicable knowledge'. There's also a huge range of knowledge, such that somebody that's illiterate could still be an expert in their field(s).
Countless things can be learned in countless degrees of knowledge, to disregard one for their lack of knowledge in specific areas would be ignorant. Funny how smarts can turn to ignorance, no? Maybe it's like anti-IQ and should be considered for balancing purposes.
If everybody was a genius, somebody would still have to flip burgers. Who knows, that may even be what makes them happy.
To conclude.. IQ scores have very little, if nothing, to do with pool playing ability. I'd say free time and temperment would have more influence.
So, by definition those who hold this view, such as yourself, feel there is absolutely nothing to learn in order to play pool.
That's an interesting notion.
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Geez, you're really stretching. Those are different things and you know it.
IQ scores are a measurement of how well you do at a very specific set of problems. They're intended to measure how well you learn, but there's no way one simple test encompasses the ability of ANY person from ANY background to learn ANY subject.
There's plenty to learn in order to play pool. But your test scores don't necessarily predict your ability to learn it. They're not perfect and they were never intended to judge your aptitude for something that's very closely tied to physical abilities.
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That's a pretty big twist in logic. Don't outsmart yourself there, doc.
Due to it's nature, it involves geometry and physics, but knowledge of either of those two are unnecessary to play. You don't need to know how to read to play pool, you just need to know the rules like you would in other sports. Being knowledgable of strategies could help, but some have an inate ability to figure those out, too. For me, playing pool is an art.. other than that, I don't feel that I have much artistic talent at all.
If you'd like to answer your implied question/statement..
What must one learn to be able to play and how would IQ matter? Does draw mean something more to a doctor than it does a bum? How about a lawyer? A golfer? An accountant?
Don't necessarily predict?
Of course, I said nothing different. But you seem to have great difficulty here.
Not perfect? I never contradicted that.
As much as you can try to hedge it, it still comes out the same.
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As I am sorry that a vague response was misinterpreted.
If you would care to elaborate on the previous response, that would be helpful.
Lets name some pros that have an IQ below 130 from your estimation: ?. to me they all seem like quite articulate individuals. There is definitely a correlation. IQ deals mostly with logical problem solving and memory in my opinion. Which game would that apply to? The amount of things to remember in pool are infinite or at least close. Logical problem solving? that doesnt sound like pool.
I don't understand what some you are not comprehending about IQ.... IQ is simply a number that projects the way your brain functions. It is a FACT that a higher IQ means that your brain is able to process information at a quicker or easier pace. Also IQ has nothing to do with profession.... You don't have to have a high IQ to be a doctor, or lawyer, you just have to have determination and drive. Also being a bum does not mean you are stupid or have a low IQ, it may just mean you have a different set of priorities in your life, Ghandi for example....
Either way, you are making this a point that it was never ment to be, the man asked a very simple and striaght forward question.
Which the answer is YES. A higher IQ will allow your brain to process information better and you will most likely be able to progress at an activity more quickly than someone with a low IQ.
Two players have the same experience in pocket billiards which is none, One has double the IQ of the other player. They both go on the same practice regimen for one year: By how much would the progression of the higher IQ player exceed the others if the both had the same desire to improve?
Maybe this question cant be accurately answered or have any relevance to most of us but input is still appreciated.
I do not believe you can find 2 people where one has an IQ half of the other.
That being said, the few people that I know with IQ over 150, do not mention it or brag about it.
All that being said, I do not think that a persons IQ has any relationship to the ability of the individual to play pool or other eye hand coordinated sports.
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I'll choose somebody with determination over a bookworm any day. Just because you can write and say 'relationship' in 10 different languages, that does not correlate to being able to have a successful one. Knowledge does not equal ability. Just as saying that somebody has a 'high IQ' does not mean that they're brainy about everything.
Perhaps I don't comprehend it because I have a 62 IQ. :frown: Maybe if those that were smarter than I could explain this in an easily understandable manner, I'd finally get it.
Einstein was a pretty smart guy.. he married his first cousin. 
I'll choose somebody with determination over a bookworm any day. Just because you can write and say 'relationship' in 10 different languages, that does not correlate to being able to have a successful one. Knowledge does not equal ability. Just as saying that somebody has a 'high IQ' does not mean that they're brainy about everything.
Perhaps I don't comprehend it because I have a 62 IQ. :frown: Maybe if those that were smarter than I could explain this in an easily understandable manner, I'd finally get it.
The first sentence of your post contradicts its self. People with determination and bookworms ARE THE SAME PEOPLE. A lot of the time it is the people who have lower IQ's that have to bury there face in a book because they are having a hard time comprehending a subject...
There is a large difference between knowledge and intelligence, so your statement "knowledge does not equal ability" is true, but has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
Lastly what I think everyone here is forgetting is this, pool is NOT FOOTBALL. You do not have to be born to play pool, it is a sport/ability that anyone is able to LEARN!!!!! And the key word there is LEARN!!!! So if higher IQ = better ability to LEARN than a higher IQ pool player = Picking up the game at a quicker pace....
ONCE AGAIN THE QUESTION WAS NOT "Is it possible for a high IQ person to be a champion? Is it possible for a low IQ person to a champion?" Because the answer that question is they both can.
The question was WHICH PERSON WILL PICK UP THE GAME AT A FASTER RATE....
Which is ALWAYS going to be a person with a higher IQ.
I would not call it bragging but you are welcome to call it that. I have nothing to brag about it and was doing just the opposite by stating that even with my high IQ I did not chose to go down a path of academia, degree or paper chasing, so if anything I was putting myself down. I am okay with me and where my life is and would not trade it for anyone else's. The point is that there are so many people out there with high IQs that you might not even know have that high of score or have done little or nothing with it in the terms that some would deem as being successful.