Is adjusting your level of play to your opponents play level laying down?

[catpool9]

You came to the heart of the matter for me. While I almost always hid my speed I also had a personal rule that I never raised the bet over $3-$5 a game in the seventies. The people that weren't hustling me were never hurt too bad. The people who were also on the lemon while constantly wanting to jack the bet almost always found a bigger wolf when they were finally ready to drop the hammer. Reading the speed of somebody that was stalling while successfully hiding your own was a critical skill.

Since I only hooked the people that hustled me I never considered what I did hustling until I came to the internet forums. I played friendly games at a friendly speed much like I played banger speed when playing for nothing with my banger friends. I might be aiming at points or nudging balls around or whatever to keep myself entertained and not be playing quite as sloppily as it seemed but I was giving the other players a chance at the table. When a would be hustler saw what was going on as easy pickings . . . I didn't really feel that his poor judgment was my fault.

I got a huge grin listening to the 60 minute interview of UJ Puckett. He said that the people that played him had never shot so many times in a match-up and still lost or words to that effect. Safeties didn't go over well in redneck country unless they were "accidental" rolls after a near miss. That was a well polished art form.

Hu

I believe UJ Puckett was quiet a player and bumped shoulders with the best hustlers that have ever lived, he told me a few good stories about beating Chicago back in the day, won a ton from what he told me.UJ said when he got to town he was getting the 5 ball, when he left two weeks later he was giving it.

David Harcrow

 

[Lock N Load]

Lock, just in case you don't know. YOu can click on a poster's name and click on their PROFILE and then you can click on FRIENDS and then you can "Befriend" someone. You don't have to wait until they befriend you.

JoeyA

Thanks JoeyA,
I am learning as I go, and with help from you. I appreciate all of your help. My current student won the tournament last week at Buffalo's. Shelia, Remember I ask you to shoot her a game or two before. She beat Trey and put him on the loser side. And then she beat him two times in the final. She beat Kenner Duck, AKA Duck Soup on the way to the final. I have a new student now, plus I still teach her as well. Thanks again.
Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[Matt90]

I dunno

Man, I can't make a ball :sorry::sorry:

 

[ShootingArts]

my kind of guy

I believe UJ Puckett was quit a player and bumped shoulders with the best hustlers that have ever lived, he told me a few good stories about beating Chicago back in the day, won a ton from what he told me.UJ said when he got to town he was getting the 5 ball, when he left two weeks later he was giving it.

David Harcrow

UJ fished all morning for years and hustled pool every evening. Now that he is dead he haunts a pool hall. That's dedication to the game! From what I can gather he was rough as a ball of barbed wire when he needed to be but smooth as silk so he rarely needed to be rough. I can't remember ever meeting him and he seems like the kind of guy I would remember. On the other hand he seems very very familiar. I've met a handful of people a lot like him over the years although he might have been the very best at his style. The ultimate hustle is to rob everyone and be welcome to come back and do it again next time!

To tie this post back to this thread, I'm sure you know that UJ was very expert at moderating his speed and getting along with people. These gifts left most everyone feeling like they had a chance to beat him. First couple years after I got good enough to ramble into a strange place and be pretty sure of taking it down I wasn't smooth at all. Often led a parade to my truck I was driving then, a Chevy with a warmed over 454. I was almost always alone and the seat rode and slept good. When I put the hammer down on that 454 there wasn't much going to stay with me either. Always said that truck would pass anything but a gas pump however gas was cheap back then and it had two tanks. I put over 250,000 miles on that truck. Fun times in the good ol' days when things were rotten! I did finally learn it was easier on me and the truck to leave 'em laughing.

Hu

 

[Lock N Load]

The truth shall set you free!

Man, I can't make a ball :sorry::sorry:

Matt Lock,
You must have been playing Lock N Load, when you found this out! He, He, He. When you come down here, I will make plenty of balls for you in my pocket. I need to make 10, and you need to make 6.... In your pocket. if that is not fair, I may adjust it!
Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[Lock N Load]

Thanks, I appreciate that info....

Lock, just in case you don't know. YOu can click on a poster's name and click on their PROFILE and then you can click on FRIENDS and then you can "Befriend" someone. You don't have to wait until they befriend you.

JoeyA

I am learning as I go on AZB. Thank you very much!
Regards,
Lock Load.

 

[Lock N Load]

Matt Lock, where are you?

Man, I can't make a ball :sorry::sorry:

I am going to help you not make a ball!! He, He, He.
Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[Z3R0]

Interesting way to justify it. So if someone tries to steal a woman's purse, and you stop it, should you then steal all the money in his wallet. I prefer to live at a certain moral and ethical standard that does not waver based on others actions.

Well if that works for you, that's nice. If someone tries to take advantage of me, I'm not exactly going to feel sympathy for them when they realize it was poorly planned and executed. And personally, I don't find the analogy you used very accurate to the topic at hand.

A more relevant situation would be if a thug saw a seemingly helpless elderly lady walking down the street, tried to rob her, and then got robbed himself when she pulled out her .45.

As I said, assumptions can be dangerous, and a lot of times people pay the price for trying to play predator with seemingly helpless(or luckless) targets.

 

[LAlouie]

When, you're playing someone who does not play as good as you do, and you adjust your level of play to theirs, would you be considered laying down?
Example: The person you are playing is missing shots and does not get position when they do make a shot! And you are playing much better than they are. Do you slow your level of play down to theirs?

I did this in a match the other night, and as we played, I thought the guy could not play very well. I was very wrong! The guy had not played in a long time and was getting back in stroke while playing me. It turned out that as we played he got much better. It is a good thing that I had several levels of my game! He won the first set. And laughed at me. Well, we played another set and he won that as well. At this point I have come from an E, game to a C, game. We played another set for the championship! I stepped up to an B, game, and won the set! And laughed at him! Now this person will play me again, had I beat him like a drum the first set, he would have never have played another set!

I was accused of laying down!!
Regards,
Lock N Load.

The word "adjust" implies a willful act. As a willful act, "adjusting" your game to play someone below your level would be "laying down". However, this is not what you mean, BUT that is what the people accusing you are implying.

 

[Lock N Load]

Thanks LA.

The word "adjust" implies a willful act. As a willful act, "adjusting" your game to play someone below your level would be "laying down". However, this is not what you mean, BUT that is what the people accusing you are implying.

This makes it complete with your input and response. Yes indeed! I appreciate your input.
Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[maidenfreak]

The word "adjust" implies a willful act. As a willful act, "adjusting" your game to play someone below your level would be "laying down". However, this is not what you mean, BUT that is what the people accusing you are implying.

I respectfully disagree with your statement. The word "adjust" does imply a willful act but adjusting your game up or down depends on your skill set and pool room upbringing. I was lucky enough to have been taught my game at a young age by several amazing players. Once my game had progressed they would only play me if I played for $3 a game. I lost for 6 months or so but came back every day I could to play. After about a year of 95% losses I stepped up some and was almost holding my own. It was at that time the bet was bumped up to $6 a game and their games adjusted accordingly. Another year or so of losing and learning I was playing at a good click. To shorten my rambling on I will get to the point. Playing for stakes in this fashion was a purposeful undertaking by my mentors. It conditioned me to relax when there was money on the line. In doing so it also made me not really care about the game if there wasn't. Now when I play it is to the level of my competition. It is not something I purposefully do but I do it none the less and many others I have known do the same thing. My game is only as good as it needs to be unless something is on the line. Throw me some action and you get my game. I do not consider this laying down and most rational folks would agree.

Switching gears what is wrong with laying down? A game of pool is a mental sparring match with your opponent. You take advantage of what you can to win as in any game. Throw away the moral arguments because the term laying down implies gambling and they do not apply here. If someone lays money on your table is isn't a coincidence. They have watched you play and made the decision they can beat you. If you are not showing your game when that decision is made, advantage you. :thumbup:

Disclaimer: I have typed this reply while on a doctor prescribed cocktail of "happy go to sleep" meds. All opinions expressed are mine alone and I take absolutely no responsibility for them.

 

[Lock N Load]

Maidenfreak, I have never seen it put any better!

I respectfully disagree with your statement. The word "adjust" does imply a willful act but adjusting your game up or down depends on your skill set and pool room upbringing. I was lucky enough to have been taught my game at a young age by several amazing players. Once my game had progressed they would only play me if I played for $3 a game. I lost for 6 months or so but came back every day I could to play. After about a year of 95% losses I stepped up some and was almost holding my own. It was at that time the bet was bumped up to $6 a game and their games adjusted accordingly. Another year or so of losing and learning I was playing at a good click. To shorten my rambling on I will get to the point. Playing for stakes in this fashion was a purposeful undertaking by my mentors. It conditioned me to relax when there was money on the line. In doing so it also made me not really care about the game if there wasn't. Now when I play it is to the level of my competition. It is not something I purposefully do but I do it none the less and many others I have known do the same thing. My game is only as good as it needs to be unless something is on the line. Throw me some action and you get my game. I do not consider this laying down and most rational folks would agree.

Switching gears what is wrong with laying down? A game of pool is a mental sparring match with your opponent. You take advantage of what you can to win as in any game. Throw away the moral arguments because the term laying down implies gambling and they do not apply here. If someone lays money on your table is isn't a coincidence. They have watched you play and made the decision they can beat you. If you are not showing your game when that decision is made, advantage you. :thumbup:

Disclaimer: I have typed this reply while on a doctor prescribed cocktail of "happy go to sleep" meds. All opinions expressed are mine alone and I take absolutely no responsibility for them.

Hello Maidenfreak,
I thank you for your wonderful input. That is the answer I have been looking for! It is right to the point. Even with a perfect description! And explanation of how you arrived at your answer... Really good! Thanks again.
Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[Lock N Load]

Z3, you don't miss nothing!

Well if that works for you, that's nice. If someone tries to take advantage of me, I'm not exactly going to feel sympathy for them when they realize it was poorly planned and executed. And personally, I don't find the analogy you used very accurate to the topic at hand.

A more relevant situation would be if a thug saw a seemingly helpless elderly lady walking down the street, tried to rob her, and then got robbed himself when she pulled out her .45.

As I said, assumptions can be dangerous, and a lot of times people pay the price for trying to play predator with seemingly helpless(or luckless) targets.

It sure is nice to have a friend like you Z3. Thanks for your sharp eyes! You don't miss a thing. I appreciate you being my friend.
Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[Lock N Load]

I believe UJ Puckett was quiet a player and bumped shoulders with the best hustlers that have ever lived, he told me a few good stories about beating Chicago back in the day, won a ton from what he told me.UJ said when he got to town he was getting the 5 ball, when he left two weeks later he was giving it.

David Harcrow

Hello Cat,
That is a good one there... All your stories are great! Thanks.
Regards,
Lock N Load.