Is adjusting your level of play to your opponents play level laying down?

old habits

Lock N Load said:
Hello Richie,
Laying down or stalling is something you practice in your regular game playing practice!! Or so I thought. He, He, He. If you miss a few shots during playing of a match, it does not mean you are laying down either. When a lot of people are watching when I am practicing I tend to miss sometime. Opps, that is stalling also! Thanks for your response and input, Richie. I appreciate it.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
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Awhile back I went to a new pool hall to check out the tables. Horrible home tables in a pool hall, I don't think it lasted a year. The bank angles were ridiculous and I made a deliberate decision not to try to adjust to those horrible rails and the crap cloth on the table. I was playing the young counterman and staying about even playing a decent game but not belly to the ground. Three or four older fellows came over to watch the game and my play "automatically" went down a couple balls. :D :D :D Old habits die hard even though my game is pretty bad at best these days.

JohnnyT,

Thanks for the kind words! I slide through now and then mostly when I can't play poker or need a breather from it. Trying to learn how to play poker in my old age is hard work and takes most of my spare time.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Awhile back I went to a new pool hall to check out the tables. Horrible home tables in a pool hall, I don't think it lasted a year. The bank angles were ridiculous and I made a deliberate decision not to try to adjust to those horrible rails and the crap cloth on the table. I was playing the young counterman and staying about even playing a decent game but not belly to the ground. Three or four older fellows came over to watch the game and my play "automatically" went down a couple balls. :D :D :D Old habits die hard even though my game is pretty bad at best these days.

JohnnyT,

Thanks for the kind words! I slide through now and then mostly when I can't play poker or need a breather from it. Trying to learn how to play poker in my old age is hard work and takes most of my spare time.

Hu
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I do not blame you for not trying to adjust your game to a bad table. You are welcome for the kind words anytime, Hu. It is hard to hold a good man down! Remember that... Thanks for your response and input.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Lock N Load said:
If you play very well and everyone knows this, what kind of action do you get? If you do not adjust your level of play, you have to give up weight! To get action. Thanks for your input and response. I appreciate it.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
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Aha....

so you re just talking about to *hustle* or *shark* someone. If i personally wanna have action, or better said *would*, i play with a person who s at the same level. If i would go out to just hunt for a *paying chicken*, and would play like a D-Player just to catch some bucks....that would not be the action i would be lookin for. Sharking like that is not what i really like-and if such a *wanne-be-hustler* entering my pool-room i would love to get him really broke.
I prefer to play with *open cards*.
It s ok for me if guys are having action-- but to act like an idiot and scratching etc just to steal some bucks....just poor for me.
If action-then action for both guys. And without sharking,


just my opinion,

lg
Ingo
 
Ratta said:
Aha....

so you re just talking about to *hustle*

lg
Ingo
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finally somebody said it. "Laying down" "showing your speed" it is all hustling. If you play below your speed to trap somebody, you are a HUSTLER. Play your game and what happens happens.
 
Tablerunna...

tablerunna said:
finally somebody said it. "Laying down" "showing your speed" it is all hustling. If you play below your speed to trap somebody, you are a HUSTLER. Play your game and what happens happens.
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So, if a player wants weight from you because your game is better than his, what is he trying to do to you? (Hustle You!) I never mentioned hustling anyone. And I asked if it was laying to down to adjust your game to your opponents level of play. Great players have to hunt for action, or give up the world in weight!
It is not your fault that you shoot better than someone else!! Why should you pay a penalty for that? If he put the time in that you did to get to be good, then he would not be begging for a Spot!
Thank you for your response and input.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Ratta....

Ratta said:
Aha....

so you re just talking about to *hustle* or *shark* someone. If i personally wanna have action, or better said *would*, i play with a person who s at the same level. If i would go out to just hunt for a *paying chicken*, and would play like a D-Player just to catch some bucks....that would not be the action i would be lookin for. Sharking like that is not what i really like-and if such a *wanne-be-hustler* entering my pool-room i would love to get him really broke.
I prefer to play with *open cards*.
It s ok for me if guys are having action-- but to act like an idiot and scratching etc just to steal some bucks....just poor for me.
If action-then action for both guys. And without sharking,


just my opinion,

lg
Ingo
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I never said anything about acting like an idiot nor scratching, nor hustling, no mention of sharking either! Just plain and simply put, just adjusting your level of play. To your opponents level of play.
I can do that with good safeties and leaving hard to make shots for him.

I have had guys to act like they couldn't shoot good with me, and as we play they shoot better and better. Seeing this going on I change gears on them, and now I am trying to hustle them! Why was it OK for him to lay down to hook me?
Thanks for your response and input, that is what this thread is about...
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Ok,

my posting was no offense against Lock n Load :)

To make it more simple:
From my side never weight to anyone-never. And i also want no weight.
I got one time weight from a *local hero*- hell of a shooter with an ego bigger than the universum he lives in. A guy who knew me well-(and the opponent too) came over and just said i ll back him (me) for any bet.
this was the one and only time i got weight-but just for about 2-3 hours or so...from that point there was no weight anymore (grin). Even if that was good money and action- i don t like weight. But that s just why i usualy don t like to hustle/gamble. I don t need really to have a bet running to play pool.

lg
Ingo
 
Ratta, Lock N Load did not take offense to your post.

Ratta said:
Ok,

my posting was no offense against Lock n Load :)

To make it more simple:
From my side never weight to anyone-never. And i also want no weight.
I got one time weight from a *local hero*- hell of a shooter with an ego bigger than the universum he lives in. A guy who knew me well-(and the opponent too) came over and just said i ll back him (me) for any bet.
this was the one and only time i got weight-but just for about 2-3 hours or so...from that point there was no weight anymore (grin). Even if that was good money and action- i don t like weight. But that s just why i usualy don t like to hustle/gamble. I don t need really to have a bet running to play pool.

lg
Ingo
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I like for a person to express themselves, right or wrong, good or bad! I want good responses from AZB members. True to the point. Ratta, you and I are OK! No, problem at all.

Weight is a way of life in the pool world. Look at some of the tournaments! JoeyA, Eddie Brown, Duck Soup, Trey, Ronnie D, Lectric Mike, and Lock n Load, have to give the 8 to a lot of players. This is in our local pool hall tournament, at Buffalo's billiards. Do not even mention the One Pocket tournaments! It is worst in that tournament. So, we live with weight in pool in our lives.
Thanks for your response and input.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Instead of getting lazy or goofy with your stroke to lay down, or not concentrating as hard or whatever is done to play below your true speed that seems to mess up your game do everything you would do when your playing your A game, just focus to rattle the pocket or overcut the shot. There's no reason we have to get out of stroke while we're missing.
 
I was taught to play your game all the time. Whats the point in playing half ass?? That and some people would get offended if they found out you were taking it easy on them.

Unless your trying to hustle somebody you should always play your game. Its practice when there's no money or prize. You play like you practice. jmho ;)

Forgot to mention... Unless its a smoking hot temptress that was intrested in playing more than pool with you then yes... Miss on purpose more often but dont let them win. You let them win and they'll lose intrest :p
 
i have never purposely hid my speed. i have never gave weight or asked for any. im not as big on gambling as i used to be , got smarter in my later years lol. but when i did, the bigger the stake the harder i tried to win it. i tried to win every game, just saying you didnt see the same game at 10.00 a game from me you would at 100.00 a game. when i had extra money i would play someone i knew i didnt have a chance in h*ll of beating just to pick up what i could off him knowing i could take what i learned and make my money back off other players. thats how i learnd to play pool. we didnt have instructors, schools or videis back then, just a few books.
 
Oh the good Ole Automatic Stall..........

IMOP its a conditioned responce especially in the better rankings of players.

like Hu said he sees no point in blowing off the table of potential players that are learning and such......

like i got used to often..........

if i miss its : "Oh come on you could have made that, did you miss it on purpose or something.......bla bla bla"

if i run out: " oh got dam you could at least let me shoot or something, bla bla bla"

many of us just enjoy playing anyways and don't want to hear the BS but somehow seem to need the company i guess so we swallow it.

its not laying down, but you can get used to it and be stuck on the AUTOMATIC STALL which kills a player in tournaments and short races.

thats why i really don't play with those players, i don't mind teaching but playing them makes me dull. some of them respect this some dont.....i don't care cuz i'm not down for it, its turned me off too many times so i cut it out like the cancer it was.

-Grey Ghost-
 
greyghost said:
Oh the good Ole Automatic Stall..........

IMOP its a conditioned responce especially in the better rankings of players.

like Hu said he sees no point in blowing off the table of potential players that are learning and such......

like i got used to often..........

if i miss its : "Oh come on you could have made that, did you miss it on purpose or something.......bla bla bla"

if i run out: " oh got dam you could at least let me shoot or something, bla bla bla"

many of us just enjoy playing anyways and don't want to hear the BS but somehow seem to need the company i guess so we swallow it.

its not laying down, but you can get used to it and be stuck on the AUTOMATIC STALL which kills a player in tournaments and short races.

thats why i really don't play with those players, i don't mind teaching but playing them makes me dull. some of them respect this some dont.....i don't care cuz i'm not down for it, its turned me off too many times so i cut it out like the cancer it was.

-Grey Ghost-
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its unfortunate yhat you have come across more than your share of jerks like that. i love to play better players than i am , especialy the ones that are willing to share their knowledge. i dont berate better players better than me or players that have lesser skill than i do. one thing that gets me is how a lot of players belittle all bangers . every one was a banger when they 1st started. i for one realize there are jerks in all levels , from bangers to pros
 
lorider said:
its unfortunate yhat you have come across more than your share of jerks like that. i love to play better players than i am , especialy the ones that are willing to share their knowledge. i dont berate better players better than me or players that have lesser skill than i do. one thing that gets me is how a lot of players belittle all bangers . every one was a banger when they 1st started. i for one realize there are jerks in all levels , from bangers to pros
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well said, there are bangers of all levels just as pros.......I'd have to say that the biggest help to my game overall was to be able to listen, watch, learn and take advice.

-Grey GHost-
 
Hey, Lorider...

lorider said:
i have never purposely hid my speed. i have never gave weight or asked for any. im not as big on gambling as i used to be , got smarter in my later years lol. but when i did, the bigger the stake the harder i tried to win it. i tried to win every game, just saying you didnt see the same game at 10.00 a game from me you would at 100.00 a game. when i had extra money i would play someone i knew i didnt have a chance in h*ll of beating just to pick up what i could off him knowing i could take what i learned and make my money back off other players. thats how i learnd to play pool. we didnt have instructors, schools or videis back then, just a few books.
Click to expand...

I see you said you a different game for $10.00, than you did for $100.00! That sums it up right there! I call that adjusting my level of playing to the level of the game I am playing in.... Thanks for your response, and input.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
What's up GreyGhost!

greyghost said:
Oh the good Ole Automatic Stall..........

IMOP its a conditioned responce especially in the better rankings of players.

like Hu said he sees no point in blowing off the table of potential players that are learning and such......

like i got used to often..........

if i miss its : "Oh come on you could have made that, did you miss it on purpose or something.......bla bla bla"

if i run out: " oh got dam you could at least let me shoot or something, bla bla bla"

many of us just enjoy playing anyways and don't want to hear the BS but somehow seem to need the company i guess so we swallow it.

its not laying down, but you can get used to it and be stuck on the AUTOMATIC STALL which kills a player in tournaments and short races.

thats why i really don't play with those players, i don't mind teaching but playing them makes me dull. some of them respect this some dont.....i don't care cuz i'm not down for it, its turned me off too many times so i cut it out like the cancer it was.

-Grey Ghost-
Click to expand...

Hey Grey, I bet you have a 5 speed game! Way to go Grey...
Thanks for your response and input.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Lock N Load said:
When, you're playing someone who does not play as good as you do, and you adjust your level of play to theirs, would you be considered laying down?
Example: The person you are playing is missing shots and does not get position when they do make a shot! And you are playing much better than they are. Do you slow your level of play down to theirs?

I did this in a match the other night, and as we played, I thought the guy could not play very well. I was very wrong! The guy had not played in a long time and was getting back in stroke while playing me. It turned out that as we played he got much better. It is a good thing that I had several levels of my game! He won the first set. And laughed at me. Well, we played another set and he won that as well. At this point I have come from an E, game to a C, game. We played another set for the championship! I stepped up to an B, game, and won the set! And laughed at him! Now this person will play me again, had I beat him like a drum the first set, he would have never have played another set!

I was accused of laying down!!
Regards,
Lock N Load.
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If you don't know that you were laying down already, then their is a problem. To me its a matter of character that I will always do my best, and not try to trick someone into giving me their money. I guess if you want to be a hustler, then that is what you want to do, but you were definately laying down. Their can be instances where you don't play as focused because of the fact that the person you are playing is not as good, but that is generally not on purpose. Doing it purposefully to deceive is where the problem begins in my mind.
 
336Robin said:
I agree whole heartedly with Hu's post with other added reasons. I play a few players way above my level on a regular basis and had them grind me down to a nub back when I first started playing them because they are so competitive--also bad losers. I was the lesser and I took the beating without complaint but little was learned as the student just sat in the chair while they gloated over their prowess. Now its 50/50 and sometimes the other way around and I have a student/friend of my own to teach. I occassionally allow him to get 6 games ahead before I go into Super Nova shut down mode just to show him that I have that gear and to prove to myself that I do. Generally when I do I will control 4 racks or better of simultaneous play before noting his ego is cracking and its no longer fun for him. Then I slowly edge him back and end up the night a few racks ahead.
Pool is tough game and there are fine lines of division all over the place. Lines of division where kindness/weakness, sickness/competitive nature are close to one another at times. Certainly being able to distinguish the difference in those areas is a plus not only in your game but in your psychology. As one enters "pool realm" when faced with the green background having a real connection to the world outside the plane of the slate isnt necessarily a bad thing. It might just keep it real for you when you are assessing your own skill level. A delusional view of your real game isnt a good thing to be carrying around, beating your friends down to nubs to the point of complete demoralization isnt always necessary unless your friend is completely delusional about his own skill and needs it. Enjoying the game is necessary if you continue playing your friend and it allows you work on shots you are having trouble with.
A non-friend deserves no quarter if its gambling but there are levels of sickness and depravity there as well. You have no obligation to show your speed. Perhaps you are the therapy that it will take to make them realize they have a bit of a problem.
This is a game, a realistic view of it is a good thing to have otherwise we would just roll dice. You Sandbagger You!!

336Robin :thumbup:
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These are 2 totally dfferent things though. On one hand, the better player can give you a break and help you out. You, however, know he is better, and he is not looking to take your money. On the other hand, one is playing down to purposely deceive someone into giving him a better game to be able to take their money. In my mind, that borders on stealing.
 
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Lock N Load said:
I see you said you a different game for $10.00, than you did for $100.00! That sums it up right there! I call that adjusting my level of playing to the level of the game I am playing in.... Thanks for your response, and input.
Regards,
Lock N Load.
Click to expand...

I call that increasing your level of focus due to the stakes. I have no problem with that, because you are not intentionally playing down in either case. If that is what you mean that I have no problem with it. However, I doubt anyones skill levell changes from E to B+ due to a change in stakes if it is not being done on purpose.
 
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