Is being a "Touring Pro Player" a decent kind of living?

[JoeW]

It seems to me the answer to this question is mostly in your perspective. It appears there are a hand full or less Professionals making what I would consider a decent living. However, there is more to making a decent living than the financial metric. Are you happy? Are you enjoying life? Are you at peace with yourself? There are no shortage of wealthy people that are dissatisfied if not completely miserable. And who made the rule that success has to be measured by the traditional idea of a spouse, two cars, a couple of children, a 3 bedroom house in a nice subdivision and a steady 9 to 5 job?

I was discussing something similar to this with one of the guys this week at league. He made a great point by stating how great it would be to be one of the best in the world at what you do. How can you put a dollar figure on that?

In study of genius level IQ some of the brightest most successful and unsuccessful people in the USA were asked at the end of their lives what it took to make a good life the reply by the vast majority (something like over 90%) said that if you are on good terms with your family (whatever your family consists of) you can do anything. Your family is your foundation from which one can be successful at whatever they choose to do in life.

A road player with a family seems to be a contradiction in terms. I suspect they may have had fun for a few years but I doubt that many had good lives throughout their lives. But then road players and touring pros are not the same thing.

I have known many people on both sides of the tracks and this family as foundation idea seems to be one of the truest findings I have ever read. It is worth much effort to keep your family relations in tact.

 

[Black-Balled]

Joew...
Ya killed another thread with your common sense!!

 

[nobcitypool]

In study of genius level IQ some of the brightest most successful and unsuccessful people in the USA were asked at the end of their lives what it took to make a good life the reply by the vast majority (something like over 90%) said that if you are on good terms with your family (whatever your family consists of) you can do anything. Your family is your foundation from which one can be successful at whatever they choose to do in life.

A road player with a family seems to be a contradiction in terms. I suspect they may have had fun for a few years but I doubt that many had good lives throughout their lives. But then road players and touring pros are not the same thing.

I have known many people on both sides of the tracks and this family as foundation idea seems to be one of the truest findings I have ever read. It is worth much effort to keep your family relations in tact.

Joe, in general, I agree with you 100%. However, I'm not sure your typical Professional Pool Player fits that "general" profile either. It seems like those who seek to be that .0000001% often are more than willing, if not eager, to make the sacrifices to achieve that goal.

 

[smoooothstroke]

Not sure what a "touring pro" is.But if you mean travel all over the U.S. and or abroad and play any tourney you can to try to cover expenses...Then only the top pros can earn a good amount of money.I think you either need good sponsorship or you have to win place or show in every tourney you enter.

I can say that if I had the abilities to compete at that level I would do it,but then I have no familly to support or mortgage to pay.I know guys who could be lower level pros but they choose to work full time and play the ocasional weekend tourney.There are many profesional players all over this country who do not have official pro status but they make thier living playing pool.

The non-pro-pro has to travel on a shoe string budget and crash on people couches and such to get by.

Incidently it seams to me that the line between pro and "league pro" has blurred.I still think that a mens tour could work but it will take some doing.

 

[bdorman]

....and what you and Walter are NOT mentioning is that these other listed professioals are going to get a decent paycheck even if they do a mediocre job, whereas mediocrity in the pool world equals very little-to-no payout, not enough to cover expenses.

Very good points though, guys!!!

Maniac

If you are mediocre in any of the occupations listed by Black-Balled, you're out of a job. All the sales jobs are commission-only; there is no paycheck...pay for performance.

Drive, ambition and hard work pay off in any endeavor. But the rewards are bigger outside of pool because the pool industry just doesn't have much money in the pot. If SVB had decided to become the best real estate agent in the world, he'd have done so...and be a multi-millionaire.

Originally Posted by Black-Balled:
It is not realistic to think a pool player warrants the same pay as:
Successful real estate agent,
High end sales rep,
Pharmaceutical medical sales,
Director of MIS,
Licensed professions.
Building contractors,
Successful business owners

 

[franko]

Why

Why I voted yes.To be a Touring Pro means you have put many hours of hard work and dedication into your game. You would not have done that if you had not had a burning passion for pool.When you make your life's work your passion you are doing something 99% of the rest of the world is not doing.It is at this point you are successful.Thread after thread, post after post all I read is bashing of the game of Pool, whether it is straight, nine ball, banks or one pocket the games the players, the parlor owners all get slammed, but yet reading between the lines you can feel the passion by all.My father always said " if you don't respect yourself how can you expect anyone else to respect you" Well at some point everybody needs to stop using $ as a sign of respect.If golfer s, tennis players etc. constantly bashed their sport the fans and support would drop off.You do not get people to go eat at a restaurant by constantly complaining about the food and service. To many of us have spent their lives working at a job we hate to get that weekly paycheck. I envy and admire the touring pro's.

 

[backplaying]

Today......no. Even when pool was in it's heyday some of the top Pro's had full time jobs. Mosconi and Caras were lucky and were paid to work for Brunswick. Others like; Balsis, Crane, Mizerak, and Babe Cranefield all worked regular jobs in addition to touring professionally.

What regular jobs did they have? I have never known a top player to have a full time job other than pool. Think of the top players since the 70's and name 1 that had a full time job?

 

[backplaying]

Why I voted yes.To be a Touring Pro means you have put many hours of hard work and dedication into your game. You would not have done that if you had not had a burning passion for pool.When you make your life's work your passion you are doing something 99% of the rest of the world is not doing.It is at this point you are successful.Thread after thread, post after post all I read is bashing of the game of Pool, whether it is straight, nine ball, banks or one pocket the games the players, the parlor owners all get slammed, but yet reading between the lines you can feel the passion by all.My father always said " if you don't respect yourself how can you expect anyone else to respect you" Well at some point everybody needs to stop using $ as a sign of respect.If golfer s, tennis players etc. constantly bashed their sport the fans and support would drop off.You do not get people to go eat at a restaurant by constantly complaining about the food and service. To many of us have spent their lives working at a job we hate to get that weekly paycheck. I envy and admire the touring pro's.

You have hit on the biggest reason for lack of money in professional pool!

 

[Black-Balled]

 

[nobcitypool]

If you are mediocre in any of the occupations listed by Black-Balled, you're out of a job. All the sales jobs are commission-only; there is no paycheck...pay for performance.

Drive, ambition and hard work pay off in any endeavor. But the rewards are bigger outside of pool because the pool industry just doesn't have much money in the pot. If SVB had decided to become the best real estate agent in the world, he'd have done so...and be a multi-millionaire.

Originally Posted by Black-Balled:
It is not realistic to think a pool player warrants the same pay as:
Successful real estate agent,
High end sales rep,
Pharmaceutical medical sales,
Director of MIS,
Licensed professions.
Building contractors,
Successful business owners

Most sales jobs are some guarantee plus some type of bonus or commission program. IMHO, the vast majority of sales people are mediocre in their profession, they survive just because of that, i.e., the vast majority are rather mediocre. The logic with SVB doesn't necessarily follow. Effort doesn't necessarily correlate to success. While SVB seems like a nice enough and personable fellow, he also seems to be a bit introverted. I'm not sure he'd "kill it" if he worked as a Saleman for 12 hours per day.

I've seen a lot of business professionals and owners who do quite a bit better financially than professional pool players that are rather mediocre and lack much passion. Some were willing to take some risk, some were at the right place at the right time, some were fortunate enough to surround themselves with good people.

 

[JAM]

In the words of Willie Nelson:

Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be pool players...

...unless they live in the Philippines. :thumbup:

 

[javi2]

What regular jobs did they have? I have never known a top player to have a full time job other than pool. Think of the top players since the 70's and name 1 that had a full time job?

Balsis; aka "the Meat Man", left the game after WWII and worked at his father-in-law's meat factory. Returned to pool many years later, and still won.

Crane; quoted as saying that he couldn't make a living playing Tournament pool so he sold cars at a Cadillac dealer in Rochester for 17 years while still playing.

Mizerak; Steve was a school teacher, this was pretty much well known at the time, played on the weekends when he was teaching.

Babe Crainfield; related that work took away from his playing time. He always worked full time whether at his family farm or as a vice-president selling "Muzak" to offices and restaurants for 40 years. It's said that Jimmy Caras' wife Marge used to tease Joe for showing at tournaments and beating the Pro's who were playing in every tournament and devoting 100% of their time to the game.

So I guess it can be done, winning and working full time.........:thumbup:

 

[JAM]

Balsis; aka "the Meat Man", left the game after WWII and worked at his father-in-law's meat factory. Returned to pool many years later, and still won.

Crane; quoted as saying that he couldn't make a living playing Tournament pool so he sold cars at a Cadillac dealer in Rochester for 17 years.

Mizerak; Steve was a school teacher, this was pretty much well known at the time.

Babe Crainfield; related that work took away from his playing time. He always worked full time whether at his family farm or as a vice-president selling "Muzak" to office and restaurants for 40 years. It's said that Jimmy Caras' wife Marge used to tease Joe for showing at tournaments and beating the Pro's who were playing in every tournament and devoting 100% of their time to the game.

So I guess it can be done, winning and working full time.........:thumbup:

Those are great examples of a pro player working a full-time job.

However, the economy was quite different then than it is today, with the cost-of-living expenses at least four and five times higher and pool purse payouts being the same as they were in the time of, say, Mizerak's era. A hotel room cost $20 in the '70s, and you're lucky to get a decent one today, with taxes, for less than $100. Gas used to cost 29 cents a gallon in the '60s, and today, it's well over $4 per gallon.

And then we have the bizarre phenomenon of the United States Federal Reserve buying back the American debt because we have the world's reserve currency. If something doesn't change soon, the United States will be in the same economic state as Zimbabwe is today, with a loaf of bread costing a week's salary.

When you take all of these factors into consideration, it is extremely difficult to balance a full-time job and playing pool professionally, sad to say.

Pool today is a rich man's high, nothing more and nothing less. If one can get by playing pool professionally and survive, I hope they enjoy it while it lasts. Every great player has a streak, some longer than others. After a while, they end up dying penniless, alone with no family or loved ones, and sleeping in flea-bag hotels, friends' sofas, or in their car, if they're lucky enough to own one.

This, dear readers, is what is happening today with some of the American pro pool champions. That is how they live, and the American pool culture likes to stick it to them every chance they get with ridicule and mean-spiritedness. It is only when they Dance, Monkey, Dance, to profit others, that the pool pro is deemed in a high regard.

 

[GoBilliards]

With the payouts in pool today being the same as they were in the '70s and '80s, yet the cost of living has quadrupled, it is why playing pool professionally is not a lifestyle that affords a "decent kind of living." :frown:

I mean, sure, you can eat at McDonald's, share hotel rooms and sleep on the floor, and do other things to make it work economically, but who wants to live like that? Well, some pool players who are passionate about playing pool are willing to give up a roof over their head, the possibility of a loving family, medical/retirement benefits, et cetera, to do what they love most. God bless 'em. :smile:

I'm sure most know this, but I need to emphasize the fact that when you read about pool winnings on the Internet, how much a player cashed, it may be misterpreted to look like they pocketed a big chunk of change. When you add in expenses, entry fees, split purses with backers, savers, and let's not forget taxes, $100,000 could be pared down to about $35,000.

$35,000 is not a "decent kind of living" when you have to depend on coming in first, second, or third place to break even for expenses at most pool events.

The pool player who is high on the todem pole today is everybody's hero. Twenty years from now, if they can't win as they once did, they are discarded as yesterday's trash in the American pool culture. There is no respect for pro pool players or pool champions in this country.

This is a good post Jam. In addition to these points you have made there are a few more facts that are not widely known by those who are not directly involved.

Tiger woods made 87 million in endorsements from nike and 3 other companies BEFORE he hit his first ball on the PGA Tour. People hear things like this and assume pool players have sweet deals like this. It is simply not true. A more typical deal between a cuemaker and a player would be to provide a nice cue for free and that's it. Case makers do the same. If there is any entry fees and travel fees involved in a sposors deal, The pro normally has to work a show to promote the product. No Pool business is strong enough to just mail a check as a sponsor. Nike and Calloway compare to Predator and Tiger Products about like McDonalds compare to Mom and Pop's burger joint.

THE STATE OF POOL is at an all time low. There is no equity in any tournaments to speak of. This includes the pros and all others. Action is also at an all time low. Gas food and Hotel room are at an all time high.

I think people want to believe that you can make a living at pool. They almost need to believe it in order to continue the pusuit of their dreams. Like all dreams though, it's a matter of when, not if, you wake up.

 

[GoBilliards]

If you are mediocre in any of the occupations listed by Black-Balled, you're out of a job. All the sales jobs are commission-only; there is no paycheck...pay for performance.

Drive, ambition and hard work pay off in any endeavor. But the rewards are bigger outside of pool because the pool industry just doesn't have much money in the pot. If SVB had decided to become the best real estate agent in the world, he'd have done so...and be a multi-millionaire.

Originally Posted by Black-Balled:
It is not realistic to think a pool player warrants the same pay as:
Successful real estate agent,
High end sales rep,
Pharmaceutical medical sales,
Director of MIS,
Licensed professions.
Building contractors,
Successful business owners

The problem with this line of thought is this. How do you define Mediocre? the 25th best salesman in the world is at the top of his field. THe 25th best player is in the soupline.

 

[12squared]

For the most part, no, it's not a decent living. But if it's your passion and you can make a living doing what you love, especially on your own terms...YES!

You may give up stability; health care; in most cases a family; and you may not even have a credit card; but doing something you love; priceless, and more power to them. For some it is a better choice than settling for a job they are/will be unhappy with for the rest of their life. Don't get me wrong, I would suggest to any young person to stay in school, get a career, and play pool as a hobby, but for some that is not for them.

Dave