Is it the Shaft or the Tip?

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Need help here...

I play with a Mezz cue, LD shaft, medium hard tip. I've also used soft tips, super soft, and hard.... Anyhow, here's the story:

There is certain stroke shot I really like. You place the ob froze to the long rail at the 1st diamond away from one of the corner pockets on the foot end of the table. Place the cb on the headstring and about 1 diamond out from the same side rail. Shoot the shot with low-inside spin and draw the cb back and around 3 rails to the other corner pocket at the foot end of the table.

With my cue I can typically get the cb to draw around 3 rails, but it seldom has enough steam to get all the way back to the pocket or end rail at the foot of the table. A couple of weeks ago I shot the shot with a friend's Cuetec Synergy and was amazed at how easy it was to get that cb all the way around to the end rail. I did it several times in a row. Then I used another player's cue, a Predator with a carbon fiber shaft, and found it to be just as easy to work the shot.

So is it the carbon fiber shaft or the tip that makes the cb react so much better, or more dramatically?

Or is it the thinness (12mm or whatever) causing me to strike the cb a touch lower, resulting in better action?

Any thoughts or insight?
 
Last edited:

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
Well in the old days of pool most players did not have luxury of high tech equipment.

The great of the day were great because they had something that could no be purchased.

Skill. They just played, great because of skill.

Pool player are like Golfers, always in hunt for next greatest game changer.🤣
 
Last edited:

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Need help here...

I play with a Mezz cue, LD shaft, medium hard tip. I've also used soft tips, super soft, and hard.... Anyhow, here's the story:

There is certain stroke shot I really like. You place the ob froze to the long rail at the 1st diamond away from one of the corner pockets on the foot end of the table. Place the cb on the headstring and about 1 diamond out from the same side rail. Shoot the shot with low-inside spin and draw the cb back and around 3 rails to the other corner pocket at the foot end of the table.

With my cue I can typically get the cb to draw around 3 rails, but it seldom has enough steam to get all the way back to the pocket or end rail at the foot of the table. A couple of weeks ago I shot the shot with a friend's Cuetec Synergy and was amazed at how easy it was to get that cb all the way around to the end rail. I did it several times in a row. Then I used another player's cue, a Predator with a carbon fiber shaft, and found it to be just as easy to work the shot.

So is it the carbon fiber shaft or the tip that makes the cb react so much better, or more dramatically?

Or is it the thinness (12mm or whatever) causing me to strike the cb a touch lower, resulting in better action?

Any thoughts or insight?
Every cf shaft tried had what i call better 'energy transfer'. I've noticed what you describe with all of them.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Every cf shaft tried had what i call better 'energy transfer'. I've noticed what you describe with all of them.

I know they are a hell of a lot thinner than my Mezz shaft. Maybe that extra mm or so plays a big role when it comes to striking the cb.
 
Last edited:

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know they are a hell of a lot thinner than my Mezz shaft. Maybe that extra mm or so plays a big role when it comes to striking the cb.
I think the stiffer material just transfers power better.
 

AndRun

Registered
This is from personal observation. Any critics will be welcome as positive feedback.

The tip diameter and cloth quality usually matter most when it comes to quality of spin. So if your observation is based off different tables, then it may be incomplete.

Tip hardness too but to a lesser degree.
Weight of butt and weight distribution of the shaft also play a minor role.
So does stroke quality.
Minor as they are, these are what I can think of that would affect spin at noticeable level.
 

AndRun

Registered
Weight of butt -> heavier usually means less maximum spin (i.e. by the same person); lighter usually means higher probability of miscuing

Weight distribution of shaft -> 2 shafts with identical weight, components and materials would shoot differently if one's weight is distributed evenly while another's is lighter toward the top 4-5 inches.
Thus, shaft workmanship (or brand if comparing Predator to Walmart) matters.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I know they are a hell of a lot thinner than my Mezz shaft. Maybe that extra mm or so plays a big role when it comes to striking the cb.
Which Mezz shaft are you hitting with...?

I can say that there is a major difference in CB action between the wx700 '12.5mm pro taper' and wx900 '12mm conical taper'.

My 700 has a Zan soft tip, whereas the 900 currently has a Zan medium. I find the medium still too hard for the 900 and plan to drop it down to the soft asap. However it still moves the CB a lot easier than the soft 700
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
Weight of butt -> heavier usually means less maximum spin (i.e. by the same person); lighter usually means higher probability of miscuing

Weight distribution of shaft -> 2 shafts with identical weight, components and materials would shoot differently if one's weight is distributed evenly while another's is lighter toward the top 4-5 inches.
Thus, shaft workmanship (or brand if comparing Predator to Walmart) matters.
That's a loaded word considering we're discussing the attributes of a Mezz shaft. No lack of workmanship in their products.

Depending on the shaft it could merely be it characteristics, which isn't a measure of workmanship imo.
 

AndRun

Registered
Agreed. I simply wanted to state it completely but no means of belittling Mezz.

If I have to guess, it's the tip diameter that primarily caused the difference.
 

AndRun

Registered
Lighter cue and smaller tip dont necessarily mean they are better. They simply mean, given the same stroke, those will allow greater spins.

But each has its own significant drawbacks.
On smaller tips, making straight shot and long shot is more difficult, again given the same person, compared to using wider tip. The flip side of allowing more spin is a whole slew of pool science that also makes the cueball curve more or throws off the target ball more. As in, less forgiving on errors.
 

MmmSharp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have found that any carbon shaft i tried really transferred power much easier as garczar said. Draw was easier more responsive to my stroke. Often harder tips and ferrules will help with that on wood shafts for me.

A friend let me try his motley. It hit had that same transfer of power. Wood shaft. I have found a few cues like that.

I could be wrong here, but i feel the low deflection wood shafts hit softer than the solid maple and take more stroke to move the ball around. Cf low deflection seem to still have that power of solid maple and the low deflection. There would be exceptions especially from the really knowledgeable cue makers who can get both low deflection and power transfer into a wood shaft consistently with taper ferrule and tip.

Just my experience. I use to like a soft hit until i started wanting to move the cue ball around more. Then i started using harder tips and ferrules. That worked for me. I started on solid maple so low deflection threw my game off.
 

AndRun

Registered

Attachments

  • 36B60DDD-CAAD-417D-983E-4B70DD400602.jpeg
    36B60DDD-CAAD-417D-983E-4B70DD400602.jpeg
    52.9 KB · Views: 114

AndRun

Registered
I got curious so I tried it on the table.
I was able to replicate it using Predator Z2, Revo (11.8), 314, Meucci red dot and Meucci Carbon Pro (11.8).
[Simonis 860, 13.7oz butt]

Took several attempts using the fatter shafts because the amount of deflection is so different between the fat wood vs the thin CF. I suppose I haven't played with the fat shafts in a while.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Which Mezz shaft are you hitting with...?

I can say that there is a major difference in CB action between the wx700 '12.5mm pro taper' and wx900 '12mm conical taper'.

My 700 has a Zan soft tip, whereas the 900 currently has a Zan medium. I find the medium still too hard for the 900 and plan to drop it down to the soft asap. However it still moves the CB a lot easier than the soft 700

I have both shafts. Been exclusively using the wx700.

How do like that soft zan tip? I have one but haven't put it on yet.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I have both shafts. Been exclusively using the wx700.

How do like that soft zan tip? I have one but haven't put it on yet.
Regarding the shafts...: I found that the 700 was a natural fit for 14.1 which just happened to be my game of choice once the covid lockdowns happened. Although LD as you know, it's a rather stiff hit. Way more than I was used to.

Once I was playing rotation games again, I found that I hard to really generate a ton of cue speed to get the CB moving. It doesn't help that my home table is on the rather slow side. I bought the 900 primarily for the tip diameter, as I found the 12.5 of the 700 awkward when on the rail. However the conical taper and tip size is way closer to the Z2 I had played with for an extremely long time, so I found myself enjoying that shaft when the game calls for it.

To the tips...: When I first test hit my Exceed cue it had the wx700 with a Zan soft. I fell in love with the hit and purchased the cue at that moment. I had zero intention of buying a cue that night, but the hardest part of the tranaction was keeping the smile off my face...lol. Keep in mind I had been playing with the fore mentioned Z2 with a rock hard tip for a very long time. The 700/Zan Soft combo just plays amazing imo. Amazing enough for me to dig deep into my pocket to buy an Exceed.

Zan tips play hard imo, so the medium I have on the 900 is just too much and a change is necessary. The Zan soft plays great and after initial break in and reshape it will play consistently for a long time. Which of course is relative to how many balls you hit.

Can't recommend the combination enough.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is from personal observation. Any critics will be welcome as positive feedback.

The tip diameter and cloth quality usually matter most when it comes to quality of spin. So if your observation is based off different tables, then it may be incomplete.

Tip hardness too but to a lesser degree.
Weight of butt and weight distribution of the shaft also play a minor role.
So does stroke quality.
Minor as they are, these are what I can think of that would affect spin at noticeable level.

That's the odd thing. I did this shot on the same table with 3 different cues -- my mezz and two carbon fiber cues. With each carbon fiber cue I got noticeably more action than with my Mezz.

It's not important, as I'm not going to make the switch to carbon fiber simply because one cool super stroke shot is easier to pull off. And besides....I love Mezz! I was just curious why I can hit the shot better with a carbon fiber.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
I got curious so I tried it on the table.
I was able to replicate it using Predator Z2, Revo (11.8), 314, Meucci red dot and Meucci Carbon Pro (11.8).
[Simonis 860, 13.7oz butt]

Took several attempts using the fatter shafts because the amount of deflection is so different between the fat wood vs the thin CF. I suppose I haven't played with the fat shafts in a while.

The two cf cues I used were 11.8. My Mezz is a 12.5.

So we get the same results, as far as it being more difficult with a slightly thicker shaft.

It's a cool shot to know. Not necessarily drawing it around the table, but hitting the shot and bringing the cb to the opposite side rail with all that spin to get it back up table.... comes in handy sometimes.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Agreed. I simply wanted to state it completely but no means of belittling Mezz.

If I have to guess, it's the tip diameter that primarily caused the difference.

That's what I'm thinking.
 
Top