Is it the Shaft or the Tip?

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is mostly baloney (with some validity given to the table cloth and conditions...high humidity makes it more difficult to draw with anything)! Tip size, shape, hardness, etc have very small effects on draw. Being able to draw easily and effectively is 99% about having a quality stroke. Tip offset for maximum draw will be the same, whether shooting with an 11mm tip or a 13mm tip. Tips play differently, and your personal observations may hold little weight in actual response.

Scott Lee
The above should be recognized.

Stroke is the primary factor that determines ball reaction.
 

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It definitely takes a stroke. I was able to do it with my Mezz when I played with a hard tip. But with a soft or medium tip it's damn difficult to get the cb all the way around. Someone with a faster stroke could pull it off better. With the carbon fiber shafts I found it much easier to do.

Here's 3 attempts tonight with my Mezz....

Thanks, I understand the shot now...Great stroke
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
The above should be recognized.

Stroke is the primary factor that determines ball reaction.
I didn't want to get into it with Scott, but since you brought it back up and I have nothing better to do at the moment....

My primary player has a 12.5mm tip. I can get decent enough action with this shaft but not what I could with my old predator Z2 (11.75mm). Every once in a while I break out the second shaft I have which is only 12mm. It's a guarentee that my first couple of heavy draw shots will result in a miscue. Now my stroke isn't any different but once I realize I'm playing with the smaller tip and need to adjust, I no longer miscue and my action on the CB is notably greater.

Why...? Here's my theory. I think that I'm playing at or very near the miscue limit for my 12.5mm shaft. Now I realize that the miscue limit has no bearing on the tip size, but my bridge height has to change when I switch to the 12mm shaft. Otherwise I'm outside the miscue threshold. If that holds water then if I'm hitting both shafts at the miscue limit why do I manage more action with the smaller tipped shaft...?

I have a decent enough stroke is feel confident in saying it's not me. Both shafts benefit from the same stroke and the same tip placement on the CB. Why the better action on the smaller tipped conical shaft vs the larger pro taper shaft..?

I know everyone will assume that I'm full of it and my stroke is the cause, but humour me here. Any theories outside of a random stroke that can explain it.
 

AndRun

Registered
This is mostly baloney (with some validity given to the table cloth and conditions...high humidity makes it more difficult to draw with anything)! Tip size, shape, hardness, etc have very small effects on draw. Being able to draw easily and effectively is 99% about having a quality stroke. Tip offset for maximum draw will be the same, whether shooting with an 11mm tip or a 13mm tip. Tips play differently, and your personal observations may hold little weight in actual response.

Scott Lee
If you are taking about different people or trying out different strokes, like, what's the best way to increase spin, then you're absolutely right.

But we're taking about strokes by the same person. It's my mistake I didn't clarify it properly. By the same person, I simply assumed the strokes would be very much similar, thus minor. But due to the reasons you mentioned, it becomes worthy to mention.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
hard to tell which it is as your sample is too small to make a good guess even.

plus i see your balls are polished. so they will draw much farther than un waxed balls. and the shots if not made right after each other one at a time the polish will be different and affect the outcome somewhat.

other factors are the weight of the cues, the size of the shaft as a thinner shaft may enable to move it faster through your fingers. a smaller tip allows you to get lower on the cueball, and even the mental aspect of using a new cue to you may make you put more effort into it. even a thinner butt may have let you get more wrist action. who knows.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
hard to tell which it is as your sample is too small to make a good guess even.

plus i see your balls are polished. so they will draw much farther than un waxed balls. and the shots if not made right after each other one at a time the polish will be different and affect the outcome somewhat.

other factors are the weight of the cues, the size of the shaft as a thinner shaft may enable to move it faster through your fingers. a smaller tip allows you to get lower on the cueball, and even the mental aspect of using a new cue to you may make you put more effort into it. even a thinner butt may have let you get more wrist action. who knows.

The balls haven't haven't been cleaned or polished in a year. But I understand what you're saying. They'd have to be pretty dull to knock the action though. I don't do the bar scene much anymore, only pool halls, so the equipment I'm used to is fairly clean.
 
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Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't want to get into it with Scott, but since you brought it back up and I have nothing better to do at the moment....

My primary player has a 12.5mm tip. I can get decent enough action with this shaft but not what I could with my old predator Z2 (11.75mm). Every once in a while I break out the second shaft I have which is only 12mm. It's a guarentee that my first couple of heavy draw shots will result in a miscue. Now my stroke isn't any different but once I realize I'm playing with the smaller tip and need to adjust, I no longer miscue and my action on the CB is notably greater.

Why...? Here's my theory. I think that I'm playing at or very near the miscue limit for my 12.5mm shaft. Now I realize that the miscue limit has no bearing on the tip size, but my bridge height has to change when I switch to the 12mm shaft. Otherwise I'm outside the miscue threshold. If that holds water then if I'm hitting both shafts at the miscue limit why do I manage more action with the smaller tipped shaft...?

I have a decent enough stroke is feel confident in saying it's not me. Both shafts benefit from the same stroke and the same tip placement on the CB. Why the better action on the smaller tipped conical shaft vs the larger pro taper shaft..?

I know everyone will assume that I'm full of it and my stroke is the cause, but humour me here. Any theories outside of a random stroke that can explain it.
I wouldn't claim there are no other factors, but I would contend that stroke is the single overwhelming determining factor in cb action.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If you are taking about different people or trying out different strokes, like, what's the best way to increase spin, then you're absolutely right.

But we're taking about strokes by the same person. It's my mistake I didn't clarify it properly. By the same person, I simply assumed the strokes would be very much similar, thus minor. But due to the reasons you mentioned, it becomes worthy to mention.
There is only one stroke. We use it a lot of different ways and speeds...but there's only one stroke.

Scott Lee
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
true it is mainly the speed of the stroke and where the tip contacts the cueball if the other variables are constant.
 

Woodshaft

All pockets are too small
It's the stiff cf shafts that transfer the power. I have a revo 12.9 (just like world champ Albin Ouschan, and team usa member Tyler Styer), and it is the most powerful shaft out there, and one of the lowest deflection. Moves the cueball around with ease. I chuckle at all the folks who use anything smaller than a revo 12.4mm for pool. SVB uses a 12.5 cynergy, as does Fedor Gorst. Almost all the pinoys and asians use 12.9mm pred vantages or 13mm maple. Eklenti Kaci uses a 12.75mm 314-2. Etc, etc, etc. The smaller the tip, the harder the shot becomes. Josh Filler gets away with an 11.85mm z-3 because he has one of the best strokes in the world, and you folks aren't Josh Filler lol. BTW, world champ Albin tried to shoot -on and off- with the revo 12.4 for a few years. Then he discovered the revo 12.9 and has never shot better. I've had mine for about a year now after shooting with the pred vantage 12.9 for also about a year. The whole game of pool is simpler with these shafts-- love them!
 
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