is jayson shaw overrated?

Shawn Armstrong said:
This all started with some guy posting about Jayson being overrated. Most, if not all, of us have said he isn't. The OP wants to make comments about Jayson's game. I merely stated I thought it was funny that a guy who PROBABLY couldn't beat Jayson with the 5 out was cutting up his game. I then said he should offer to coach Jayson. The trollfest started with a $100k woof from the cheap seats. I have said he should make a game with Jayson. They can work out the details. Jayson hasn't offered him the 5 out. If Playa wants to make a game with Jayson, he knows how to do it. Jayson apparently knows who he is, as he has said once Jayson heard his name, the spot would tighten up real quick. Where I come from, you don't talk shit about someone's game unless you can beat them, with no spot. Otherwise, know your role, and shut your hole. That's how I was raised.
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Absolutely. ..could not agree more. I could tell by your other post when someone asks you to play, you just call heads.

I was at a big regional event on day 2 and tried to get action from 7 people. After an hour I just went home...place was like a library.

Had a guy say he wanted to play me 1000 a set. We have a mutual friend that I agreed to post with up front for 2 sets , race v to 21 on 2 dates. I was gonna drive to him to play, his room, his table, his rules. This guy just played the US Open with a backer. Now he won't post up and play. Some guys just don't mean it.

I'll bet anybody in any game I think I can win more than half the time. Sometimes you are right and other times you learn your limitations. Either way it's what makes you play better when it matters.
 
worldbeater said:
Absolutely. ..could not agree more. I could tell by your other post when someone asks you to play, you just call heads.

I was at a big regional event on day 2 and tried to get action from 7 people. After an hour I just went home...place was like a library.

Had a guy say he wanted to play me 1000 a set. We have a mutual friend that I agreed to post with up front for 2 sets , race v to 21 on 2 dates. I was gonna drive to him to play, his room, his table, his rules. This guy just played the US Open with a backer. Now he won't post up and play. Some guys just don't mean it.

I'll bet anybody in any game I think I can win more than half the time. Sometimes you are right and other times you learn your limitations. Either way it's what makes you play better when it matters.
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Who are you?
 
Shaw is brilliant but only some of the time. Those who've tried to beat him when he's in dead stroke have had a very hard time of it.

You often hear his fellow pros concede that he's virtually unbeatable at times.

Nonetheless, Jayson doesn't always deal with adversity well at the table and is still maturing competitively.

He's not overrated, but he's way too streaky for a player having such great skills.
 
poolplaya1976 said:
I saw a few of jayson's matches this past week and while he is a great shotmaker I see a lot of flaws in his game. I think his safety game is quite weak and has an inability mentally that he tilts very easy. souquet never has an emotional reaction to anything. shaw, on the other hand, gets mad easily and it really affects his game. I think he has a lot of firepower and a lot of pluses to his game but the negatives are keeping him from being among the top few best. he was cruising in the winner's bracket and before you knew it ralf beat him double hill and he is gone to get in 5th/6th place. I truly believe anything less than first or second was a disappointing result considering he was undefeated with 12 players left. anyone else feel this way about shaw?
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I'm not sure how people are rating him but he seems to finish deep in every tournament he enters. Not to mention he has won Turning Stone 3 yrs in a row ...There are a lot of players that people would like drawing besides Shaw!
 
poolplaya1976 said:
that little ko got all the rolls
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Errr... nope....


"On my way home from Steinway classic finished 3rd. played some great pool and had some nice wins over lot champions happy with my performance over the last 3 weeks. 5th at the us open then 3rd with another stellar field lost twice today against Ko po Chung he younger brother of Ko pin yi he was awesome lots of break and runs not much I could do he is a machine lol "
 
So someone asks a question that is impossible to answer, then a load of folks come on line and express their opinion and when people do not agree with their entrenched views, start throwing tantrums.

PS, no one changes their mind as a result of the opposing debate.

Does that about sum up this thread so far?

Might as well ask who would win a fist fight out of Barrack Obama and Abraham Lincoln.
 
poolplaya1976 said:
.I simply responded that with that weight I would bet 100k of my own......I am a top amateur nationally that decided 15 years ago to get my finance degree and not pursue professional pool because it didn't have a future.....there are a lot of fish who cant play on here, I am not one of those.
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This is really funny stuff !!!

There are a few people that really make AZB worthwhile, and I think playa can be added to that list.
 
voiceofreason said:
So someone asks a question that is impossible to answer, then a load of folks come on line and express their opinion and when people do not agree with their entrenched views, start throwing tantrums.

PS, no one changes their mind as a result of the opposing debate.

Does that about sum up this thread so far?

Might as well ask who would win a fist fight out of Barrack Obama and Abraham Lincoln.
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Hard to say, but I reckon with the easy access to MMA training that is available now, if you gave Obama a few months he would school Lincoln.
 
I have followed this thread from the beginning and commented early on. We've already covered that it is ridiculous to say that someone can only critique a player if they play at their level. That's basically what a few have implied, whether the people have realized it or not.

The OP was basically baited into the whole match-up thing. He was silly to entertain the idea, but I took his comments about a match-up as purely hypothetical and to try to make a point.

One poster said that he felt Shaw was top 10 in the world. Well guess what. If the majority of people felt that, heck, I might say he is a bit overrated myself. I think Jay H. mentioned that he was probably in the top 50 in the world. That is closer to what I was thinking.

The whole overrated term is too subjective anyway. SJM summarized Shaw's game and weakness perfectly IMO. I say, no harm no foul to the discussion and the critiques.
 
poolplaya1976 said:
I saw a few of jayson's matches this past week and while he is a great shotmaker I see a lot of flaws in his game. I think his safety game is quite weak and has an inability mentally that he tilts very easy. souquet never has an emotional reaction to anything. shaw, on the other hand, gets mad easily and it really affects his game. I think he has a lot of firepower and a lot of pluses to his game but the negatives are keeping him from being among the top few best. he was cruising in the winner's bracket and before you knew it ralf beat him double hill and he is gone to get in 5th/6th place. I truly believe anything less than first or second was a disappointing result considering he was undefeated with 12 players left. anyone else feel this way about shaw?
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Get_A_Grip said:
I have followed this thread from the beginning and commented early on. We've already covered that it is ridiculous to say that someone can only critique a player if they play at their level. That's basically what a few have implied, whether the people have realized it or not.

The OP was basically baited into the whole match-up thing. He was silly to entertain the idea, but I took his comments about a match-up as purely hypothetical and to try to make a point.

One poster said that he felt Shaw was top 10 in the world. Well guess what. If the majority of people felt that, heck, I might say he is a bit overrated myself. I think Jay H. mentioned that he was probably in the top 50 in the world. That is closer to what I was thinking.

The whole overrated term is too subjective anyway. SJM summarized Shaw's game and weakness perfectly IMO. I say, no harm no foul to the discussion and the critiques.
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To me it's perfectly fine to critique a pro's game so long as it's done respectively. The bold were some pretty aggressive statements. "Lot's of flaws", "safety game quite weak", and as these are subjective in the sense of, as compared to whom? Compared to me, for instance, these are absolutely untrue. Compared to top players in the world, maybe some fair critiques. But when you say what was said here and you then entertain playing for $100k of your own cash, people are going to mock and poke fun because most of us been here (or any forum for that matter) know when people make antagonistic statements and then say OH YEAH, I'LL PLAY HIM FOR 100K OF MY OWN MONEY they're probably a troll. Maybe the OP actually is a monster and would rob JS with the 5 out, but doesn't change that any heat he is catching here is due to his phrasing and appearance of astounding arrogance.

But when you don't clarify whom your comparing his "flaws" to, it's usually assumed that you're comparing him to yourself. Which is going to lead a lot of people to say, "if you're so good, then go play him." Which is what appears to have happened here.
 
jojopiff said:
To me it's perfectly fine to critique a pro's game so long as it's done respectively. The bold were some pretty aggressive statements. "Lot's of flaws", "safety game quite weak", and as these are subjective in the sense of, as compared to whom? Compared to me, for instance, these are absolutely untrue. Compared to top players in the world, maybe some fair critiques. But when you say what was said here and you then entertain playing for $100k of your own cash, people are going to mock and poke fun because most of us been here (or any forum for that matter) know when people make antagonistic statements and then say OH YEAH, I'LL PLAY HIM FOR 100K OF MY OWN MONEY they're probably a troll. Maybe the OP actually is a monster and would rob JS with the 5 out, but doesn't change that any heat he is catching here is due to his phrasing and appearance of astounding arrogance.

But when you don't clarify whom your comparing his "flaws" to, it's usually assumed that you're comparing him to yourself. Which is going to lead a lot of people to say, "if you're so good, then go play him." Which is what appears to have happened here.
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Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Someone sees the forest through the trees.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
I have followed this thread from the beginning and commented early on. We've already covered that it is ridiculous to say that someone can only critique a player if they play at their level. That's basically what a few have implied, whether the people have realized it or not.

The OP was basically baited into the whole match-up thing. He was silly to entertain the idea, but I took his comments about a match-up as purely hypothetical and to try to make a point.

One poster said that he felt Shaw was top 10 in the world. Well guess what. If the majority of people felt that, heck, I might say he is a bit overrated myself. I think Jay H. mentioned that he was probably in the top 50 in the world. That is closer to what I was thinking.

The whole overrated term is too subjective anyway. SJM summarized Shaw's game and weakness perfectly IMO. I say, no harm no foul to the discussion and the critiques.
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Baited? I said Shaw could probably spot him the 5 out, and rob him. Playa is the one that threw out a massive $100K bet and said "set it up". Pinklady has got in touch with Jayson, and he's interested. He just wants to know who he is, and where and when he wants to play. Seems like a pretty easy payday, according to Playa. So, it's up to him. No baiting. He crawled out from the bucket of worms by posting "is Shaw overrated?". He then climbed onto the hook and stabbed himself in the face with the power woof for $100k. Now, it's his choice as to if he wants to play Jayson. He just needs to figure out the how much, where, and when. But the game is his, if he wants it. No baiting - he did it to himself.

This reminds me of the internet badass that was ripping Joe Rogan on the internet, saying his knowledge of MMA was shit, and that he could take Rogan any day of the week. He challenged him on Myspace, and Joe said "ok". For those who don't know, Joe was a top ranked TKD fighter as a junior. He took up Judo and Jiu Jitsu, and is a high level practitioner of all three disciplines. Enjoy the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a556pUcVgO0
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Baited? I said Shaw could probably spot him the 5 out, and rob him. Playa is the one that threw out a massive $100K bet and said "set it up". Pinklady has got in touch with Jayson, and he's interested. He just wants to know who he is, and where and when he wants to play. Seems like a pretty easy payday, according to Playa. So, it's up to him. No baiting. He crawled out from the bucket of worms by posting "is Shaw overrated?". He then climbed onto the hook and stabbed himself in the face with the power woof for $100k. Now, it's his choice as to if he wants to play Jayson. He just needs to figure out the how much, where, and when. But the game is his, if he wants it. No baiting - he did it to himself.
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Totally agree with this, but there is something I don't understand.

Does anyone on the planet actually believe PLAYA was being serious in his offer? By contacting Jayson it almost makes me think people believe his dribble.

In my opinion, Mr. Playa's statements should be viewed as what they really are,,, totally ridiculous. And we should just take them at that,,, pure entertainment (or AZ porn).

This bush league psych out stuff. Laughable, man – ha ha!
 
Said Brian Lipes....lol


worldbeater said:
I can give a B player the 6 out and the breaks...especially in a big table. Alot goes into that equation. If you add up dry breaks, scratches and failed runouts to the 6 it starts to make sense. If the B is getting to the 6 at 40% or better without me shooting I cant win. To me that's the tipping point. I'm gonna win by safing better early in the rack, or playing tie ups better or making easy outs of 6 balls or less. As a AA level, not quite shortstop level player, there's a lot yoy can give up. If you are B or lower and a guy wants to give you the breaks it isn't much and can actually hurt you as bad or worse than winner break.

If the OP plays about my speed he would be a favorite getting the 5 out from anybody on the planet. ..breaks or not.

This match will never happen anyway cause he may have game and even money, but will inevitably fall short in the heart category. So few have all 3.
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So, why did Playa get banned? Not that I didn't think he has already on his way down....just wondering if this is a time out, or a heave-ho. We could use more nationally ranked former amateur champs 'round these parts.
 
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