Is Johan Ruysink out as USA Mosconi Cup Coach after only one year?

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some good observations in this thread, but a worrying percentage of the comments are a result of several generations of missguided faith in American exeptionalism...
If USA isn't best, the system is rigged or the terms are wrong, or European players who live in USA shouldn't be allowed to play for team Europe etc.
It's the failiure to see reality for what it is, that's what Johan is commenting on.
If pool in USA is to be governed by individuals and the only motive is money, the problem will only get worse with time. Bar tables aren't just cheaper, you can fit more of them in on a given space, thus making more money pr square feet...
 

PhilosopherKing

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Some good observations in this thread, but a worrying percentage of the comments are a result of several generations of missguided faith in American exeptionalism...
If USA isn't best, the system is rigged or the terms are wrong, or European players who live in USA shouldn't be allowed to play for team Europe etc.
It's the failiure to see reality for what it is, that's what Johan is commenting on.
If pool in USA is to be governed by individuals and the only motive is money, the problem will only get worse with time. Bar tables aren't just cheaper, you can fit more of them in on a given space, thus making more money pr square feet...
i've been thinking about bar tables, and if english 8-ball can produce shaw, appleton, and potts, then, maybe, bar tables can be tweaked to achieve similar results.
 

PhilosopherKing

AzB Gold Member
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Silver Member
Yeah just one thing you didn't think about, Pinoys implemented another rule: the-1-million-hours rule. All of them have been playing nights and days since they were small, and continue to do so everyday (ask Jay about Dennis Orcullo). Americans don't actually hit that many hours except for SVB (surprise!), relatively speaking comparing to Pinoys.
Jeez, that's serious dedication, especially when you consider the fact that in order to hit a million hours, a person would have to start playing at birth and literally play nonstop for the next 114 years.
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i've been thinking about bar tables, and if english 8-ball can produce shaw, appleton, and potts, then, maybe, bar tables can be tweaked to achieve similar results.

It could happen, but would require a mindset change.

English pool players need to focus on good fundamentals and typically gravitate to American pool after they can already play on tight pocket tables.

They of course have to learn a lot of new shots, but they can cue straight and have good strategic knowledge.

There’s no reason US players couldn’t do the same, I personally think people are missing a trick by not producing a 7ft Chinese style table (i.e. tight rounded pockets but configured for 2.25 inch balls).

If that happened I think it would massively help
US pool.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i've been thinking about bar tables, and if english 8-ball can produce shaw, appleton, and potts, then, maybe, bar tables can be tweaked to achieve similar results.

The poolhall I play at have several English blackball tables and two chinese eightball tables in addition to several Gold Crown 5 tables and let me tell you right away that Blackball has nothing to do with adding something to pool it allready haven`t got.
The only reason 6ft tables really exists is that English pubs are f****g tiny!
Blackball is like playing on those kids tables and it`s not really a table for developing skills. The Chinese 8 ball tables is another dud, that really does not add anything to the game, it`s just a bastard game born out of some strange Chinese prefrences, again I think it comes down to space. Snooker is huge in China, but not that many can fit a 12ft table in their home, so they ended up with a 9ft table and regular pool balls, but snooker cushions and pocket cut.
The tables have a very, very limited appeal and the ones where I play sit there with their covers on for most of the time.
The billiards community world wide is allready quite fragmented, but I guess you could make the case there is 3 main disciplines:
- Pool
- Snooker
- Carambole

To fragment the sport even more with tables and balls of all kinds of variations and sizes is the wrong way to go. pool should be played on 9ft tables for tournaments, snooker on 12ft and carambole on 10ft tables, the rules should be universal for each type of game, not a hundred different variations like we see now in pool.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And one more thing: we just had the best coach in the history of the MC coach the US team and he couldn't do squadoush with the American players.

We now know that it ain't the coach and anyone who thinks hiring one particular guy to be the US coach is going to make a difference -- especially some guy that says he has the secret sauce but will not reveal his hand (to wildly mix metaphors) -- is kidding themselves.

Lou Figueroa


This post didn't age well.
 

jeephawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I live a little over an hour from Sioux Falls, South Dakota - I don't play any pool leagues, but there are plenty of guys around here who do - 90%+ have no idea who SVB is or really care. Even some who go to bar box tourneys have no real interest in people that are "household names" to the experts and hard core fans I see on here.
 

jeephawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The poolhall I play at have several English blackball tables and two chinese eightball tables in addition to several Gold Crown 5 tables and let me tell you right away that Blackball has nothing to do with adding something to pool it allready haven`t got.
The only reason 6ft tables really exists is that English pubs are f****g tiny!
Blackball is like playing on those kids tables and it`s not really a table for developing skills. The Chinese 8 ball tables is another dud, that really does not add anything to the game, it`s just a bastard game born out of some strange Chinese prefrences, again I think it comes down to space. Snooker is huge in China, but not that many can fit a 12ft table in their home, so they ended up with a 9ft table and regular pool balls, but snooker cushions and pocket cut.
The tables have a very, very limited appeal and the ones where I play sit there with their covers on for most of the time.
The billiards community world wide is allready quite fragmented, but I guess you could make the case there is 3 main disciplines:
- Pool
- Snooker
- Carambole

To fragment the sport even more with tables and balls of all kinds of variations and sizes is the wrong way to go. pool should be played on 9ft tables for tournaments, snooker on 12ft and carambole on 10ft tables, the rules should be universal for each type of game, not a hundred different variations like we see now in pool.

You aren't going to fill up an event center in the Midwest USA with loads of 9 foot Diamonds and attract tons of folks to play in an event (too expensive, tougher logistically) - bar boxes are what those folks are playing on every week.

I was lucky to catch some of the top players in a real tourney in Des Moines last summer - SVB, Alex, Frost, Duel and others - small event, limited appeal. It was a lot of fun to watch and I hope it happens again this year, but the annual event for the regular folks at the event center downtown gets a lot more people in the door.
 

tuffstuff07

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you watch I think it's one of the end day interviews with Tyler he mentioned that predator and Johan are working on a youth program but didn't wanna give away any details
 

West Point 1987

On the Hill, Out of Gas
Silver Member
I think a U.S. victory lap is in order...have the team come around between tournaments, hit several rooms (who would kick in expenses and something for appearance) and have the team play mixed doubles with local players as partners, head to head "beat the King", type stuff. Earl's been doing it for years now...we need them to capitalize on the success and maximize the effect it can have on pool as an industry. They could partner with regional tour organizers, UBL/APA/BCAPL franchise owners, etc. to get something together.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Now he's saying its increased funding is why we won. WTF??? Give they guy(and JJ) due rewards. MW is a great guy but failed(badly a couple times) at winning the MC. Simple as that.


Were did I say that?

Lou Figueroa
talk about simple
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think a U.S. victory lap is in order...have the team come around between tournaments, hit several rooms (who would kick in expenses and something for appearance) and have the team play mixed doubles with local players as partners, head to head "beat the King", type stuff. Earl's been doing it for years now...we need them to capitalize on the success and maximize the effect it can have on pool as an industry. They could partner with regional tour organizers, UBL/APA/BCAPL franchise owners, etc. to get something together.

That is a great idea.
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This post didn't age well.

Thanks for the bump on this thread.
Unfortunately because of the loss of Mr. Bond, we do not have his American billiard radio link from the original post (Mike Howerton had the shows archived and if he PMs me the link, I’ll update the original post with it).
But in the interview, which was a tough one by Mr. Bond, in that he had Coach Johan the day after the difficult loss, where Mosconi Cup rookie Josh Filler was named MVP, and the Euros crushed the USA with incidents such as Dennis Hatch refusing to shake hands with Filler and walking away from Johan after the match....

This shows the seemingly impossible task that Johan was up against.....

After the addition of Jeremy Jones, and two years of boot camps, playing practice tournaments against team Russia, hand selecting a team from observing the various American based tournaments and working with players one on one....The USA is back to back champions. Something that would never have been considered when this thread was made.

If only we had Mr. Bond with us to interview Johan and put a nice bookend to this story arc. It’s pretty cinematic when you stand back and look at it from the wide angle lens.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
AZ member Mr. Bond did a stellar interview with Coach Johan after the Mosconi Cup and as a very good reporter would, he got right to the point with his questioning. What resulted was a realistic and serious take on the state of American professional pool by Johan. Sounds to me like the jury is still out on whether Johan will even be back next year.

If you haven't listened yet, here is the link:
http://www.americanbilliardradio.com/listen/

(Scroll down to "The 2017 Dream Crusher" stream and play from 6:25 -13:30)

Mr. Bond: If they ask you to come back, will you?
Coach Johan : (notable quotes below not in order)

"I would think about it. I'm not afraid of the challenge but I'm not going to get into a challenge where there's no solution. We need to change a couple of things."


"There needs to be some changes in my approach and how the industry with American pool is set up to give us a chance"


"As long as the industry and backers don't invest in a good education for players and coaches and support the top players, then it will be very hard."


"I go to the world 9 ball championships after this, I fly out tomorrow, these guys go to bar table tournaments because that's how they earn their money...while Europeans play 9 ball on new cloth and new tables two times a month in high pressure tournaments and American players don't."


"There seems to be a gap in the talent development that needs to be fixed."




Does anyone see American pool stepping up and making some changes or is coach Johan out after one year?

Great interview, Mr. Bond, thanks for all that you do.

Johan Ruijsink has become a Mosconi Cup legend...in my opinion...
...11 times as a coach...9 wins...1 draw...one loss
...and has done it with teams that were losing
 
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AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ruijsink's record:

with Team Europe -- 6 wins (2007, 2010-2014), 1 tie (2006)

with Team USA -- 2 wins (2018-19), 1 loss (2017)

So 8-1-1 overall
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Johan Ruijsink has become a Mosconi Cup legend...in my opinion...
...11 times as a coach...9 wins...1 draw...one loss
...and has done it with teams that were losing

And in only 3 years time, he took a US program that hadn’t won in 10 years, to be back to back champions over an impressive European squad.

Just think about how much time he spent away from his family to scout and coach and play psychiatrist to US players in order to get them to believe in a winning mindset.

They never even used to win lags, and here they are 3 years later.

Wow.

I hope he writes a book about it all. I really do.
 
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