Is Josh Filler the best European player of all time?

Positively Ralf

Positively Ralf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good morning all, was just having a discussion with someone at the hall about this and he feels that Josh Filler is without a doubt the best euro player ever. I myself still think Darren Appleton, during that time where he was winning everything, is probably the best all time with Jayson Shaw still in contention considering how much he still has left in the tank.

What do you guys think?
 
He is the best player today, in my opinion, and the social media trolls and bullies made a big mistake, again, in my opinion, trying to alienate him and castrate him in public. Matchroom dropped him like a hot potato when this happened. Everybody is entitled to their opinion about him changing his mind, but I am of the opinion that he is entitled to change his mind and do as he damn well pleases. It's his life, his pocketbook, and his pool career, and as such, he can be the captain of his own ship.

I haven't watched Johann Chua enough to ascertain whether he's worthy of consideration, but he's on the rise for sure. And I don't think he's hit his peak yet. He's the one to watch.
 
@JAM Johan Chua is Philipino :)
No other European player has won more major titles than Filler, not even close.
Jason Shaw, Darren Appleton, Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann - they all have won their share of trophies. However their trophy cabinet is not that packed compared to Josh's.

Best,
Kris
 
Every era in every sport has a name to be considered the greatest. It changes with time.

Filler is a great player, but if he was around 20-30 years ago, I doubt that he would have been that great or at least that dominant. I think that the pro field back then was bigger and stronger, with many legends of the game being at their top form, and there was one European to maintain a higher level than most Europeans – Ralf Souquet.

I feel that today there are very strong pro players, but at the top, there are fewer players than 20 years ago holding the same high level of game, so the competition was greater. Not to mention that the equipment today is better and makes it easier than it was 20-30 years ago.

But maybe it's the opposite; maybe these legends of the game would not be able to compete well in today's field. We will never know.
 
I think it's between Josh Filler and Ralf Souquet, and it is pretty close. To me, guys like Appleton, Immonen, Ouschan, Hohmann and Feijen, all of whom won more than one WPA sanctioned world championship, but none of whom produced major titles at the rate of a Filler are in the conversation for third best, but not even mentionable with the top two.

Ralf vs Josh is pretty close, however. If titles won at the European Championships are included in consideration, Josh
Filler's career has, perhaps, not eclipsed that of Ralf quite yet, but it seems quite certain that it will.
 
kris said:
@JAM Johan Chua is Philipino :)
No other European player has won more major titles than Filler, not even close.
Jason Shaw, Darren Appleton, Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann - they all have won their share of trophies. However their trophy cabinet is not that packed compared to Josh's.

Best,
Kris
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Yes, you're right. It's "Filipino." How did I learn this spelling? From my early days on Azbilliards Discussion Forum talking about, well, Filipino champions and the Filipino Invasion. ;)
 
skor said:
I feel that today there are very strong pro players, but at the top, there are fewer players than 20 years ago holding the same high level of game, so the competition was greater. Not to mention that the equipment today is better and makes it easier than it was 20-30 years ago.

But maybe it's the opposite; maybe these legends of the game would not be able to compete well in today's field. We will never know.
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I think it's the opposite. The number of great players has never been higher and winning at the major nine and ten ball events is harder than it ever has been.

All but a few of the players of the last generation would have been eaten alive by today's 100 greatest cueists.
 
Let me ask you guys this as it just came up in my mind, do we put any thoughts on the english 8 ball/blackpool careers of guys like Melling, Appleton and Shaw before jumping on the american pool scene? Or do we separate those as the majority of the top talent in those disciplines(outside of the obvious names) never pursued american style pool?
 
Positively Ralf said:
Good morning all, was just having a discussion with someone at the hall about this and he feels that Josh Filler is without a doubt the best euro player ever. I myself still think Darren Appleton, during that time where he was winning everything, is probably the best all time with Jayson Shaw still in contention considering how much he still has left in the tank.

What do you
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Positively Ralf said:
Good morning all, was just having a discussion with someone at the hall about this and he feels that Josh Filler is without a doubt the best euro player ever. I myself still think Darren Appleton, during that time where he was winning everything, is probably the best all time with Jayson Shaw still in contention considering how much he still has left in the tank.

What do you guys think?
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As far as pure talent I’d say yes, but as far as accomplishments it has to be Ralph souquet
 
JAM said:
Yes, you're right. It's "Filipino." How did I learn this spelling? From my early days on Azbilliards Discussion Forum talking about, well, Filipino champions and the Filipino Invasion. ;)
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My brain always does the same thing… when I type it out it comes out Philipino. Prolly because I’m thinking about the Philippine islands.
😳😂
 
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in my opinion he's the best european player ever. the titles speaks for themselves and the field is tougher now than it was for ortmann or souquet. he's won so much since, but the stand out for me was the US open win against wu jiaqing. a passing of the torch between two amazingly talented southpaws. that he almost swept derby last year, and his 14.1 / 8-ball achievements show that he's an incredible all around player too

Positively Ralf said:
Let me ask you guys this as it just came up in my mind, do we put any thoughts on the english 8 ball/blackpool careers of guys like Melling, Appleton and Shaw before jumping on the american pool scene? Or do we separate those as the majority of the top talent in those disciplines(outside of the obvious names) never pursued american style pool?
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i put zero thought on it tbh. i mean it's impressive to win that but it's also niche, and the different size cue ball combined with the table size makes it too wonky and weird to consider
 
Taxi said:
I'd put Filler as the all time best European player, but that's only because Gorst is now a de facto American. 🇺🇸
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Yep. People forget that Russia is part of Europe. And, Russia is also part of Asia. So maybe Gorst is the best European, and Asian player. Or maybe everyone considers him and American now. Or, who knows....
 
Banger said:
Yep. People forget that Russia is part of Europe. And, Russia is also part of Asia. So maybe Gorst is the best European, and Asian player. Or maybe everyone considers him and American now. Or, who knows....
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I was only referring to the fact that Gorst was previously a member of Team Europe's Mosconi Cup team.
 
skogstokig said:
in my opinion he's the best european player ever. the titles speaks for themselves and the field is tougher now than it was for ortmann or souquet. he's won so much since, but the stand out for me was the US open win against wu jiaqing. a passing of the torch between two amazingly talented southpaws. that he almost swept derby last year, and his 14.1 / 8-ball achievements show that he's an incredible all around player too



i put zero thought on it tbh. i mean it's impressive to win that but it's also niche, and the different size cue ball combined with the table size makes it too wonky and weird to consider
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Well going by the titles on european soil Joshua is not even close to what Ralf achieved - Ralf won 23 Eurotour events while Joshua sits at 10 atm,also Ralf won 20 European titles while Joshua won surprisingly very low number of them - 3 - its not like he didnt play in many of those,its just so damn hard to win one. For the time being achievent-wise I put Ralf higher than Joshua,people simply tend to forget how scary good Ralf was. But in the next 5-10 years if Joshua keeps winning the way he does Joshua will turn himself in european GOAT..
 
marek said:
Well going by the titles on european soil Joshua is not even close to what Ralf achieved - Ralf won 23 Eurotour events while Joshua sits at 10 atm,also Ralf won 20 European titles while Joshua won surprisingly very low number of them - 3 - its not like he didnt play in many of those,its just so damn hard to win one. For the time being achievent-wise I put Ralf higher than Joshua,people simply tend to forget how scary good Ralf was. But in the next 5-10 years if Joshua keeps winning the way he does Joshua will turn himself in european GOAT..
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We can’t predict the future, but in 20 years there may be a case that Filler is the GOAT period.
 
overlord said:
I thought Josh was great from the beginning and didn't get all the haters..............
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he can rub people the wrong way, he did it when he was a teenager at eurotour events too. i get that, but it's not malice, it's the signs of an ultra competitive person in a competitive situation. after the dust has settled / the match is over he's often nice and (nowadays) well spoken. filler's antics aren't anywhere near those of earl's or even ronnie o'sullivan's, yet their antics don't detract from their achievements imo
 
skogstokig said:
he can rub people the wrong way, he did it when he was a teenager at eurotour events too. i get that, but it's not malice, it's the signs of an ultra competitive person in a competitive situation. after the dust has settled / the match is over he's often nice and (nowadays) well spoken. filler's antics aren't anywhere near those of earl's or even ronnie o'sullivan's, yet their antics don't detract from their achievements imo
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Yup, I’ll never understand why the same people who slobber over Earl find Filler so objectionable.
 
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