Is Josh Filler the World's Best Pool Player?

[jalapus logan]

Kind of funny that the same people now using fargo as an excuse to exclude Shane, railed against it all the years that Shane led it. lol

Not me though. I think Fargo is about as accurate of an assessment as one could hope for to develop rankings and to know how players play relative to one another. SVB clocks in at 6 and given the world beaters I've witnessed, that does seem about right. That said, again, SVB is right up there with the best of them for sure.

 

[jalapus logan]

Shane has won five U.S. Opens, which feature fields as strong or stronger than most World Championships. How many have Filler and Gorst won? How about one each. I was TD both years when Shane beat Dennis in the finals. At that time Dennis was the best all around pool player in the world, and Shane had to play superlative pool to beat him in the long final matches. And he did! Dennis played great and Shane played better. Go back and check those matches online and compare them with Filler and Gorst. Shane is every bit as good as either one imo.

I would never argue with your experience, but I would be curious as to your thoughts about SVB's performance vs his elite peers in recent years. SVB's 9 ball US Open wins were quite a while ago. It seems to me that the level of play has risen considerably and the competition is more fierce now than when he was winning those Opens. A rising tide lifts all boats, and the level of play has risen considerably IMHO. You would obviously know more than me, but do you think it possible in the modern era for ANYONE to dominate the way SVB did back then?

 

[The_JV]

At an 11-point gap, the lower-rated player would have over a 40% chance of winning any race up through 22, and over a 30% chance of winning any race from 23 up through the high 80s (the FargoRate Match Odds calculator doesn't go beyond 30.9% at a race to 86).

I struggle with the simplistic application of Fargo odds. For example that 40% chance between players with a low robustness (~1500) is far more likely to be overcome, then when comparing players with robustness in 5 digits. I don't know which way the omnipotent algorithm leans, but I have to think 800 players w/ >10k racks in the system are more likely to stay in their lanes.

My point is, the odds calculator should consider robustness. That 40% may just likely be 30% as you slide up the scale.

Of course, it all boils down to sample size. No matter how large the hole you poke in the system. Theoretically speaking you wait long enough there will be a plug big enough to fill it.

 

[jason]

... and Shane lost the Derby City 9ball quarterfinal to Filler 9-0, which is, to date, their only meeting in 2025. Josh has surely won 75% of his nine ball matches vs SVB in his career.

SVB is as clearly number three as Josh and Fedor are 1A and 1B. Shane remains a superstar of the highest order, but he is without a major nine ball title (World 9ball, World Games 9ball, US Open 9ball, UK Open 9ball, China Open 9ball, European Open 9ball, Qatar Open 9all, Spanish Open 9ball, Hanoi Open 9ball) since his 2022 World Championship.

Shane is also without a Matchroom 9ball title since they went to 4" pockets in August of 2022.

.... but, as you suggest, SVB is deserving of our highest regard and remains a legendary player still playing as well as all but the top two. Wishing him the best.

I try to be unbiased in my analysis, but I must admit I've been a SVB fan for many years. It's hard to admit that he has been passed, but the numbers are pretty clear. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[The_JV]

I would never argue with your experience, but I would be curious as to your thoughts about SVB's performance vs his elite peers in recent years. SVB's 9 ball US Open wins were quite a while ago. It seems to me that the level of play has risen considerably and the competition is more fierce now than when he was winning those Opens. A rising tide lifts all boats, and the level of play has risen considerably IMHO. You would obviously know more than me, but do you think it possible in the modern era for ANYONE to dominate the way SVB did back then?

While I'm no fanboy of Shane's, or any other top pro. I think anyone who eludes that Shane's game has lost a step is doing him a disservice. As you say, the tides are rising and we need to heap the props on him for (for the most part) keeping pace. That said, if we are to believe the press about his engagement with the game (alternate pursuits) then he likely suffers from what all of us mere mortals do. A lack of concentrated effort.

Everyone put down the pitch forks. Everything is relative. Shane's commitment would clearly be light years beyond joe six pack. What I'm saying is the ultra elite live/breath pool. The Ko brothers likely internal competition being a great example. It's what these players do. We all know Shane has other interests. What do you think the Ko's, Gorst, Filler are doing while Shane is jigging for trout on a frozen lake..?

 

[nmh2008]

We need to stop acting like Shane being a top 5 player in the world at his age and level of interest is some sort of slight to him. He had his time as the best player in the world but we are officially in the Filler/Fedor era. The level he is still playing at is incredible and should be appreciated for what it is

 

[Jimmorrison]

SVB said it himself, his game has not dropped. The competition has caught up. Gorst and Filler are great talents. They both have yearned to be the best, and put in the work, from a very young age. Just as SVB did.

 

[sjm]

Shane has won five U.S. Opens, which feature fields as strong or stronger than most World Championships. How many have Filler and Gorst won? How about one each. I was TD both years when Shane beat Dennis in the finals. At that time Dennis was the best all around pool player in the world, and Shane had to play superlative pool to beat him in the long final matches. And he did! Dennis played great and Shane played better. Go back and check those matches online and compare them with Filler and Gorst. Shane is every bit as good as either one imo.

Sorry, Jay, but this is not true. Until 2019, when Matchroom took over the US Open 9ball, the US Open 9ball field was always weaker than both the World 9ball and weaker than that of the China Open 9ball, too. In fact, if you read the threads about the 2019 US Open 9ball, it was pretty much unanimous that it featured, by far, the greatest field ever seen on American soil, and the fields since have been just as tough.

Yes, the US Open 9ball always had a very tough field, but the event did not attract all the top Europeans and Asians until 2019. The All-Japan field was of nearly comparable class to the US Open 9ball, too. No doubt, along with the World Games Gold medal, the crown jewels in 9ball during Shane's best years were these five events.

Shane, with five US Opens and a World 9ball, has six of these. At age 27, Filler already has a US Open 9ball, three China Open 9balls, a World 9ball, and a World Games gold medal, so he has also got six. Fedor, with two World 9balls and a US Open 9ball, has three, so his resume is not quite on the level as Shane or Josh, but it might be one day.

Josh already has a resume at the greatest majors that is not exactly eclipsed by that of Shane. By the time he retires from competition, Filler's performance in pool's most difficult events, the ones where legends are made, will have long since eclipsed that of Shane.

Shane is an all-time great, a living legend, and I agree with many on this forum that he is presently playing the greatest pool of his career, but he never played 9ball at the level we are seeing from Filler today, and that's why Filler is mass producing titles at 9ball's greatest majors at a rate we haven't seen before.

Shane may have some majors left in him. He can still beat anybody and everybody in competition, and I wish him every possible success.

 

[jalapus logan]

While I'm no fanboy of Shane's, or any other top pro. I think anyone who eludes that Shane's game has lost a step is doing him a disservice. As you say, the tides are rising and we need to heap the props on him for (for the most part) keeping pace. That said, if we are to believe the press about his engagement with the game (alternate pursuits) then he likely suffers from what all of us mere mortals do. A lack of concentrated effort.

Everyone put down the pitch forks. Everything is relative. Shane's commitment would clearly be light years beyond joe six pack. What I'm saying is the ultra elite live/breath pool. The Ko brothers likely internal competition being a great example. It's what these players do. We all know Shane has other interests. What do you think the Ko's, Gorst, Filler are doing while Shane is jigging for trout on a frozen lake..?

I fault no one for their life in pool. Pool is a choose your own adventure for sure.

SVB, is no Joe 6 pack...he did an 8 pack vs Gorst in that long race if I recall. So he's SVB 8-pack as far as I'm concerned, lol.

 

[Mark V]

In dead punch, I don’t like anyone over Filler. It’s so prime Earl-like that it’s uncanny.

 

[sjm]

Kind of funny that the same people now using fargo as an excuse to exclude Shane, railed against it all the years that Shane led it. lol

Yes, excellent point. Although it is an imperfect measure of performance, the importance of Fargo rate has continued to grow, but there is more to the evaluation of a player than Fargo rate.

The increased importance of Fargo is partly because pool has been split in two, with some loyal to the WPA sanctioned events and others loyal to Matchroom events. We are at a sad juncture in our sport in which we are being denied the kind of fields we saw just a couple of years ago. We are now stuck comparing players that are not often competing against each other very often.

Once upon a time, we had the WPA rankings as a fairly reliable means of evaluating players, but today we lack a ranking system of any kind that objectively measures all the top players against each other. Fargo, on the other hand, has a very comprehensive reach, covering virtually all major pool events.

A problem with Fargo, however, is that it includes fringe games and, speaking for myself alone, I want to know who the best rotation games players are, as probably 95% of pro events are either 9ball or 10ball.

In short, I'm on board with your observation. Fargo does not tell the whole story. The "eye test" will always be part of the equation. SVB may be the sixth best player based on Fargo, but he is the third best player in pro pool, and the "eye test" makes that obvious.

 

[Jaden]

Shane used to be at the top of the pack, now it's Filler. I really really would like to see Shane matching up with Filler in a race or two to 120 for some serious jellybeans.

Then why didn't Filler win the us open 10 ball last night?

 

[Jaden]

I would never argue with your experience, but I would be curious as to your thoughts about SVB's performance vs his elite peers in recent years. SVB's 9 ball US Open wins were quite a while ago. It seems to me that the level of play has risen considerably and the competition is more fierce now than when he was winning those Opens. A rising tide lifts all boats, and the level of play has risen considerably IMHO. You would obviously know more than me, but do you think it possible in the modern era for ANYONE to dominate the way SVB did back then?

He just beat Filler in the us open 9 ball semi finals a few months ago. He JUST (measured in hours) won the US open 10 ball for the 6th time. He can still beat anyone and has to be in any conversation as to who's the best.

I think that right now it shifts back and forth between him, Filler and Gorst with Gorst having a slight edge and Filler a slight edge over Gorst, but they're ALL in the conversation.

 

[The_JV]

He JUST (measured in hours) won the US open 10 ball for the 6th time. He can still beat anyone and has to be in any conversation as to who's the best.

Was there a player's list for the 10b posted somewhere..? I quickly went looking for it, without luck. Just curious who played, and specifically who SVB matched up against

 

[Double-Dave]

Shane has won five U.S. Opens, which feature fields as strong or stronger than most World Championships. How many have Filler and Gorst won? How about one each. I was TD both years when Shane beat Dennis in the finals. At that time Dennis was the best all around pool player in the world, and Shane had to play superlative pool to beat him in the long final matches. And he did! Dennis played great and Shane played better. Go back and check those matches online and compare them with Filler and Gorst. Shane is every bit as good as either one imo.

I remember fondly when, after having 3 US Opens in-a-row some betting site offered 9-1 odds on Shane winning the next one aswell. I emptied the clip on that one.

I don't think anyone has quite reached the level that Shane had at long races winner-break 10-ball but I do feel Filler plays better 9-ball then Shane (or anyone else) ever did.

Gorst has been by far my favorite player for a long time now, anyone arguing against him being the best all-round for the past few years just hasn't been paying attention.

The Gorst-Filler rivalry is very similar to the Efren-Earl one in more ways then one.

 

[jalapus logan]

He just beat Filler in the us open 9 ball semi finals a few months ago. He JUST (measured in hours) won the US open 10 ball for the 6th time. He can still beat anyone and has to be in any conversation as to who's the best.

I think that right now it shifts back and forth between him, Filler and Gorst with Gorst having a slight edge and Filler a slight edge over Gorst, but they're ALL in the conversation.

Yes, he is in the ranks of the elite for sure. I'd bet Gorst or Filler over SVB however. And yes, I did lose betting on Gorst vs SVB in that race to 120. If one were to offer up a wager for the rest of 2025 on who wins more tournament $ (per AZB results, as I can't and won't track it myself), then I'd bet Gorst or Filler over SVB. I would be pleased if SVB proved me wrong however. The US Open 10 Ball only had 37 players, not exactly a major tourney. That said, congrats on his win.

 

[Brain71]

From December 2017 to April 2019, Josh Filler accomplished the following:

December 2017: A 5-0 campaign at the Mosconi, earning him the Mosconi Cup MVP.

June 2018: Won the World Pool Series 10-ball event with some of the straightest shooting I have ever seen.

Dec 2018: Won the World 9-ball Championship against a stellar field.

Jan 2019: Ran 285 balls in straight pool to set the high run record at Derby City.

Jan 2019: Beat JL Chang 17-14 in 10-ball in a high stakes action match at Derby City.

Feb 2019: Won the Eurotour event at Leende in the Netherlands

April 2019: Topped an elite field of 256 at the US Open 9-ball

So here goes. Is Josh Filler now the World's best pool player? What's your opinion?

As for me, I'm still deciding.

Yes.

 

[mjantti]

Then why didn't Filler win the us open 10 ball last night?

Because he didn’t play in the tournament

 

[AtLarge]

Was there a player's list for the 10b posted somewhere..? I quickly went looking for it, without luck. Just curious who played, and specifically who SVB matched up against

I posted this in another thread:

SVB's path to victory in the 2025 US Open 10-Ball Championship:​

​

1. Tony Chohan 9-2​

2. Jaiden Barbour 9-2​

3. Tyrel Bowers 9-1​

4. Oliver Szolnicki 9-? (score not shown by DigitalPool)​

5. Teddy Garrahan 11-5​

6. Ruslan Chinakhov 11-9​

7. Billy Thorpe 11-7​

8. Jesus Atencio 13-10​

​

Total 82 - (36-44, depending on Szolnoki score)​

Game-winning percentage -- at best 69%, at worst 65%​

​

(If anyone is sure of the score of the Szolnoki match, please let me know and I'll edit this.)​

​

And if you want to see the whole field, here is the flowchart: https://digitalpool.com/tournaments/2025-us-open-10-ball-championship/viewer

 

[sjm]

I posted this in another thread:

SVB's path to victory in the 2025 US Open 10-Ball Championship:​

​

1. Tony Chohan 9-2​

2. Jaiden Barbour 9-2​

3. Tyrel Bowers 9-1​

4. Oliver Szolnicki 9-? (score not shown by DigitalPool)​

5. Teddy Garrahan 11-5​

6. Ruslan Chinakhov 11-9​

7. Billy Thorpe 11-7​

8. Jesus Atencio 13-10​

​

Total 82 - (36-44, depending on Szolnoki score)​

Game-winning percentage -- at best 69%, at worst 65%​

​

(If anyone is sure of the score of the Szolnoki match, please let me know and I'll edit this.)​

​

And if you want to see the whole field, here is the flowchart: https://digitalpool.com/tournaments/2025-us-open-10-ball-championship/viewer

In winning the title, he beat just two of the Top 100 players in the world based on Fargo, and none of the Top 40.

With weak fields, and prize money that is nothing special, it's very hard to fathom that anybody anywhere considers this a major title, and that's why so few of the best players in the world even participate.

The US Open 10-ball rates way below winning a Euro-tour event in my books.