Is Josh Filler the World's Best Pool Player?

[one stroke]

Darn right, JAM! These new young animated players are a breath of fresh air in our sport. I love watching them.

You're right about the Mosconi Cup, too, where the players and fans are wildly passionate and demonstrative. I love how the European fans sing together at the Mosconi Cup. Of course, that tends to happen at any major international sporting event over there, and so what if they occasionally overdo it. American fans at the Mosconi continue to become more animated, and I think it's just great.

More of the same, please.

The MC is a team event like the Ryder cup so it's expected int fact encouraged to get fired up
I'm going the other way on singles I'd rather watch Chang play than Filler everyday of the week because he's so rock solid in his mechanics and pattern play it's ridicules and he never seems to fluster
This is not to say I'd don't like watching Filler shoot I do but he rely's a lot on his eagle eye long shot capabilities , fly's a lot , those young eyes don't stay that way forever so he will have to learn other ways to win if he is going to stay on top for a long stretch like other top players have


1

 

[JazzyJeff87]

I have to disagree. He was up 5-3 on Ko until he lost a safety battle when he went to the jump cue instead of kicking safe and left Ko a shot. At 5-4 he played a terrible safe on the 1 ball. 5-3 became 5-5 with Ko breaking.

There is no better in the world at pocketing balls but kicking and safety play are a weakness. He is dependent on the jump cue.

Not saying he isn't a great player but he does have a weakness.

I think pt meant that if jump cues were suddenly banned, Filler would put a lot of effort into kicking practice and be world class at it very quickly.

right. but proof of cencept anyway. it cannot be altered (unfortunately...). albin and shaw were the best in the team. replace albin with filler, same result probably. the poor performances were among the rank qualified - kaci, kazakis, etc. slow players unfamiliar with MC shot clock.

so for this conspiracy to even work there must have been lots of dives in the eurotour, to get kaci and kazakis up in points. funny.

Maybe the US just got lucky on who had those WPA points or whatever. But did Europe have to throw Kazakis at Shane with America on the hill? I know there are stipulations to the singles matchups but when I saw that I knew it was over. It felt like they were throwing him under the Shane.

 

[Low500]

There is a constant tension between the pool purists and others in the pool world. Pool purists prefer robotic emotionless robots competing in pool, never uttering a word.
Then there's the others in pool who enjoy players who aren't afraid to show emotion. This is exactly why Joshua Filler is attractive to many virtual railbirds. He's colorful and fun.
This is why the Mosconi Cup is the best pool event, or at least has been, for all professional players.
Jayson Shaw haters ragged on him for showing his emotion during the Cup. I loved it and thought it was cool.
Billy Thorpe wasn't afraid to show his emotion when competing, and I love him for it.
Pool needs this. To those who don't like FIller because he showed emotion, well, go back in your corner and enjoy pool from afar while the rest of us are in the center stage enjoying the growth pool is making in recent times, thanks to players like Filler, Shaw, Thorpe, and Alex. Pool needs more of this.
Bye-bye, pool purists. There's a new dawn a coming the pool world, THANK GOD!

NEWSFLASH for you JAM:
1. You are not in any 'center stage'.
2. Those who rely on emotion, drugs, booze, or other fantasies to win at competitive games will eventually end up broke, with bad teeth, with bad health, wearing cheap clothes, living off a significant other's earnings, or mowing lawns or working convenience store shifts to survive.
Consistency rules !!

 

[sjm]

... But did Europe have to throw Kazakis at Shane with America on the hill?

You've obviously forgotten the situation. Europe entered Day 4 at 9-6 behind so they needed to win four of the five singles matches to force a playoff match. In other words, Europe had almost no room for error and everyone had to perform.

Almost every Mosconi captain I've ever seen that entered Day 4 trailing by 2 mathces or more front-loaded his lineup, and Chamat was no exception. You don't get to pick your matchups, only your order of play.

Chamat wisely led off with Albin Ouschan, who had been, by far, Team Europe's best player through Day 3. Despite near perfect play, Albin didn't get past Skyler in what I believe to have been the greatest Mosconi match ever played.

Quite logically, Chamat followed with Shaw, Feijen and Kaci, and all three of them won to pull Europe to within 10-9. Kazakis was, also logically, in the number five spot for Europe, and had the misfortune of having to beat Van Boening. As it entered the Day with a good lead, Ruijsink had the option of putting SVB in the anchor position, but could have really placed him anywhere.

The five matches that would make up the Day 4 session were announced prior to the beginning of the first match of Day 4.

To suggest that Kazakis didn't have a shot in a race to five with Shane is a bit silly, but someone was going to have to play, and most likely, beat the South Dakota Kid, who had, at last, fond his form at the Mosconi.

The big picture is that Skyler vs Albin decided this Mosconi Cup, which would otherwise have reached 10-10 and would have then required a winner take all Match 21, likely Albin vs SVB.

Chamat's frontloading of his Day 4 lineup worked, but Europe entered the day in a terrible position, and it turned out it wasn't enough, but he handled the situation well and gave his team a chance to win.

Put another way, unless Europe had a clean sweep of the five Day 4 matches, they were going to need to beat Shane twice, not a great chance.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

You've obviously forgotten the situation. Europe entered Day 4 at 9-6 behind so they needed to win four of the five singles matches to force a playoff match. In other words, Europe had almost no room for error and everyone had to perform.

Almost every Mosconi captain I've ever seen that entered Day 4 trailing by 2 mathces or more front-loaded his lineup, and Chamat was no exception. You don't get to pick your matchups, only your order of play.

Chamat wisely led off with Albin Ouschan, who had been, by far, Team Europe's best player through Day 3. Despite near perfect play, Albin didn't get past Skyler in what I believe to have been the greatest Mosconi match ever played.

Quite logically, Chamat followed with Shaw, Feijen and Kaci, and all three of them won to pull Europe to within 10-9. Kazakis was, also logically, in the number five spot for Europe, and had the misfortune of having to beat Van Boening. As it entered the Day with a good lead, Ruijsink had the option of putting SVB in the anchor position, but could have really placed him anywhere.

The five matches that would make up the Day 4 session were announced prior to the beginning of the first match of Day 4.

To suggest that Kazakis didn't have a shot in a race to five with Shane is a bit silly, but someone was going to have to play, and most likely, beat the South Dakota Kid, who had, at last, fond his form at the Mosconi.

The big picture is that Skyler vs Albin decided this Mosconi Cup, which would otherwise have reached 10-10 and would have then required a winner take all Match 21, likely Albin vs SVB.

Chamat's frontloading of his Day 4 lineup worked, but Europe entered the day in a terrible position, and it turned out it wasn't enough, but he handled the situation well and gave his team a chance to win.

Put another way, unless Europe had a clean sweep of the five Day 4 matches, they were going to need to beat Shane twice, not a great chance.

Well then I stand corrected, except with kazakis’ chances in that particular situation. It was just a feeling on my part, and the whole thing worked out to the benefit of all I believe. And I agree that the skyler/albin match was the bee’s knees.

 

[mikepage]

I think I read somewhere Filler has runs in the 300s in straight pool?

It would be cool to see him become a one pocket champion like Efren.

Here is an interview from 4 years ago (age 17) when he points out straight pool is his favorite game and that he had a high run of 293 at age 16.

https://www.facebook.com/koreandrag...fSTEwMTc2Nzg2NzQ6Vks6MTAyMDYyNTQyOTI0NDkwNTE/

And here, from that same time, you can see he didn't quite have an established Fargo Rating, but his almost-established rating was 817, highest in Europe.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=5257572&highlight=Joshua+Filler#post5257572

 

[sjm]

Here is an interview from 4 years ago (age 17) when he points out straight pool is his favorite game and that he had a high run of 293 at age 16.

https://www.facebook.com/koreandrag...fSTEwMTc2Nzg2NzQ6Vks6MTAyMDYyNTQyOTI0NDkwNTE/

And here, from that same time, you can see he didn't quite have an established Fargo Rating, but his almost-established rating was 817, highest in Europe.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=5257572&highlight=Joshua+Filler#post5257572

Thanks, Mike, for this little tidbit. You and your team continue to add great value for our sport.

I think the fact that they play all the games (8, 9, 10 and 14.1) in the European Championships has helped the current crop of Europeans. It would be soooo nice if we had an American equivalent to the European Championships but, as Nick Varner once mentioned in his commentary, many American pros refine their finesse and speed control by playing one pocket.

I think what you're saying, Mike, is that Filler is one of the earliest bloomers our sport has ever seen. If so, I agree.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Here is an interview from 4 years ago (age 17) when he points out straight pool is his favorite game and that he had a high run of 293 at age 16.

https://www.facebook.com/koreandrag...fSTEwMTc2Nzg2NzQ6Vks6MTAyMDYyNTQyOTI0NDkwNTE/

And here, from that same time, you can see he didn't quite have an established Fargo Rating, but his almost-established rating was 817, highest in Europe.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=5257572&highlight=Joshua+Filler#post5257572

It would be interesting to see age trends as FargoRate matures. We have Filler and others on the young end, and Efren, Earl, and Souquet on the high end.

 

[PoolBum]

Good call. I'm also surprised I didn't think of Wu, although the Wu story is certainly one of a kind in terms of how it developed.

Wu saw instant success early in his career, even earlier than Filler, but it can hardly be suggested his game fell off a cliff.

I wasn't suggesting his game fell off a cliff, just that he was someone whose career began with as big a bang as Filler's.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Thanks, Mike, for this little tidbit. You and your team continue to add great value for our sport.

I think the fact that they play all the games (8, 9, 10 and 14.1) in the European Championships has helped the current crop of Europeans. It would be soooo nice if we had an American equivalent to the European Championships but, as Nick Varner once mentioned in his commentary, many American pros refine their finesse and speed control by playing one pocket.

I think what you're saying, Mike, is that Filler is one of the earliest bloomers our sport has ever seen. If so, I agree.

Corey was a top pro within 2 years of picking up a cue. He was 14 when he started and beating everyone at 16. However, it seems he dropped off a bit in his mid 20's and beyond.

 

[pinkspider]

I wasn't suggesting his game fell off a cliff, just that he was someone whose career began with as big a bang as Filler's.

He did have to serve in the army and battle leukaemia... I think that hampered his momentum back then, if I recall correctly

 

[sjm]

I wasn't suggesting his game fell off a cliff, just that he was someone whose career began with as big a bang as Filler's.

Right, but that was the context as Jay had provided numerous examples of players whose game dropped precipitously and I was responding to it.

 

[one stroke]

Right, but that was the context as Jay had provided numerous examples of players whose game dropped precipitously and I was responding to it.

I do expect him to win something big again he's only 30 and at 827 Fargo he clearly has the skills to do it also ,
On a side note I'm not a big fan of these short race short field so called world championships ,
To me they should all be 128+ minimum race to 9 minimum


1

 

[sjm]

On a side note I'm not a big fan of these short race short field so called world championships , To me they should all be 128+ minimum race to 9 minimum

For me, a race to 8 in Stage 1 in a ten ball event is plenty. Stage 2 was race to 10 and I was good with that, too.

Field size is a different matter. It will grow, along with the prize money, if the event succeeds. As this was the revival of a world championship that had fallen off the map, I think the field size of 64 was ideal, but like you, I hope it will grow.

 

[sjm]

Corey was a top pro within 2 years of picking up a cue. He was 14 when he started and beating everyone at 16. However, it seems he dropped off a bit in his mid 20's and beyond.

Yes, but he was the best back when the soft break was permitted, and when it was outlawed, he was deprived of what was a very important weapon. Corey's story is one of a kind for sure.

 

[one stroke]

For me, a race to 8 in Stage 1 in a ten ball event is plenty. Stage 2 was race to 10 and I was good with that, too.

Field size is a different matter. It will grow, along with the prize money, if the event succeeds. As this was the revival of a world championship that had fallen off the map, I think the field size of 64 was ideal, but like you, I hope it will grow.

64 ideal ? I'd have to disagree with you there , obviously the shorter the race the better chance for the lesser player more simply is better dictating the eventual winner , however having them is better than not
1

 

[one stroke]

For crying out loud, man, I gave you credit for winning the honor. What more do you want?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Can't resend a award your already winning
To you ridiculous statement, you have heard of McEnroe ,Conners, Nastase right off the batt who needed a attitude to play thier best , countless relief pitcher's to many to name also , I could spend hours building a plethora of examples to disprove that notion
Last but not least there will never be a day in your lifetime you know more than Jam in anything pertaining to pool and you certainly have zero chance of ever being more respected than she is on this site,, so my advice to you is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think your a idiot than to open it and remove all doubt

1

 

[sjm]

64 ideal ? I'd have to disagree with you there , obviously the shorter the race the better chance for the lesser player more simply is better dictating the eventual winner , however having them is better than not
1

Yes, but eight is a pretty long ten ball race, and as we saw, most of the cream had no trouble rising to the top in Stage 1, as double elimination is very forgiving when you only need to be among the top 16 in a field of 64 to advance to Stage 2.

I've been listening to the "we need longer races" argument for all my years around pool, but, as Jay Helfert so often notes, the truth is that the cream rises to the top with or without longer races. The Derby City 9-ball was race to seven for many years, and SVB was the dominant player in that event during those years. The argument that shorter races randomize the results doesn't hold up to either observation or scrutiny.

Any suggestion that the cream isn't rising to the top time and time again in pool's biggest events worldwide is largely in error. Only the truly elite are winning these titles.

 

[Johnny Rosato]

From December 2017 to April 2019, Josh Filler accomplished the following:

December 2017: A 5-0 campaign at the Mosconi, earning him the Mosconi Cup MVP.

June 2018: Won the World Pool Series 10-ball event with some of the straightest shooting I have ever seen.

Dec 2018: Won the World 9-ball Championship against a stellar field.

Jan 2019: Ran 285 balls in straight pool to set the high run record at Derby City.

Jan 2019: Beat JL Chang 17-14 in 10-ball in a high stakes action match at Derby City.

Feb 2019: Won the Eurotour event at Leende in the Netherlands

April 2019: Topped an elite field of 256 at the US Open 9-ball

So here goes. Is Josh Filler now the World's best pool player? What's your opinion?

As for me, I'm still deciding.

He's pretty good!

 

[AtLarge]

Yes, but eight is a pretty long ten ball race, and as we saw, most of the cream had no trouble rising to the top in Stage 1, as double elimination is very forgiving when you only need to be among the top 16 in a field of 64 to advance to Stage 2.

I've been listening to the "we need longer races" argument for all my years around pool, but, as Jay Helfert so often notes, the truth is that the cream rises to the top with or without longer races. The Derby City 9-ball was race to seven for many years, and SVB was the dominant player in that event during those years. The argument that shorter races randomize the results doesn't hold up to either observation or scrutiny.

Any suggestion that the cream isn't rising to the top time and time again in pool's biggest events worldwide is largely in error. Only the truly elite are winning these titles.

As you (and Jay) may recall, I really dislike statements like "the cream always rises to the top" as a justification for things like slop rules and short races. I view it as a specious argument. From 5 years ago, here is one of my rebuttals to such statements. Especially note that my concern is not regarding just the event winners, but everyone trying to earn a living in this game. https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4525290&postcount=30

For this most recent event, with races to 8 in Stage 1, you said "most of the cream had no trouble rising to the top in Stage 1. ... ." I think quite a few bottles of cream (e.g., Van Boening, Biado, Kaçi, Gorst, Aranas. Ouschan, and more) were spilled on the floor and went down the drain. Of course, some of that sort of thing always happens, regardless of race length, but the shorter the race the more likely it is.

The races to 8 on stream for the World 10B averaged just 74 minutes (only 2 matches went over an hour and a half), whereas they were scheduled at 2½-hour intervals. When we're asking players to spend this long at an event, I think it's appropriate for the races to be longer than to 8 for determining who recovers their expenses or even profits a bit.

A couple weeks ago I learned (or was reminded) that they played races to 5 in the group stage of the WPA World 9B Championship in 2004. But I guess that was fine, because the cream (Pagulayan) rose to the top.