Is Josh Filler the World's Best Pool Player?

[Low500]

"fast and loose" unless you're drugged out won't get it.

There have been a number of players over the last 60 years who, once in their drug induced comas, played fast and loose and accomplished miracles at the pool table.
Joshua Filler is not of that antiquated genre, of course. He is just so darn good at the game, he loses his focus occasionally.
He has a problem with being a little too cavalier at times which causes him to blunder. Blunders that can be fatal when up against a serious, no nonsense type of player. That's what got him beat against KO in the finals, in my opinion.
Once that wife of his slaps him upside the head and preaches him about the amount of money this is costing them, everything will fall into place.
They make a great couple. Wives have ways of teaching lessons to their husbands and that is a good thing.
I do not like the condescending term of "this kid" being applied to him and others who happen to be young and successful. Referring to them as "young man" or "young lady" is much more respectful.

 

[alstl]

Great player but take away the jump cue and his game would drop. Pocketing balls and getting shape there is no better. In the few times I've seen him try to kick I'd rate his kicking game C player and that's being generous.

 

[pt109]

Great player but take away the jump cue and his game would drop. Pocketing balls and getting shape there is no better. In the few times I've seen him try to kick I'd rate his kicking game C player and that's being generous.

If you took away the jump cue, Joshua’s kicking would improve greatly...
...in about four minutes.

 

[sjm]

If Filler is not yet a finished product yet, as some suggest, we can only marvel at the possibilities.

I recall having similar feelings about Ga Young Kim when she was about 22. Her abilities were mind-numbing, but clearly here game was still evolving and some of her skills still needed refinement. I recall chatting back then with a good friend of mine on the forum about how the sky was the limit for Ga Young. Needless to say, she went on to have a simply astounding career and won virtually all the biggest titles in women's pro pool,and belongs on the short list of the greatest women players of all time.

Watching the emergence of young stars of the game is one of the greatest joys there is for this fan, so I'll sit back and enjoy the Filler show, much the way I once enjoyed the Ga Young Kim show.

 

[spartan]

Filler first in Euro Mosconi Cup team this year returning after failing to make the team last year

http://www.matchroompool.com/news/filler-first-european-qualifier-2019-partypoker-mosconi-cup/
This year MC prizemoney up 50%- winner $30K each (was $20K) and loser $15 (was $10K) so guaranteed $15K

 

[sjm]

Filler first in Euro Mosconi Cup team this year returning after failing to make the team last year

http://www.matchroompool.com/news/filler-first-european-qualifier-2019-partypoker-mosconi-cup/
This year MC prizemoney up 50%- winner $30K each (was $20K) and loser $15 (was $10K) so guaranteed $15K

Wow, Chamat going out on a limb giving a spot to the WPA #1. Last year, in the same month that he won the World 9-ball Championship, Filler wasn't good enough to get a wild card in Chamat's eyes, despite a 5-0 Mosconi Cup campaign in 2017.

 

[Straightpool_99]

Wow, Chamat going out on a limb giving a spot to the WPA #1. Last year, in the same month that he won the World 9-ball Championship, Filler wasn't good enough to get a wild card in Chamat's eyes, despite a 5-0 Mosconi Cup campaign in 2017.

IMO team Europe is being sandbagged, and has been several times in the past. What about the year when Thorsten won everything and didn't even get a wildcard, wtf was that? It's ok, though. If the US didn't win this time, it would most likely have been the end, and maybe we'll put up our a-team this time.

 

[sjm]

IMO team Europe is being sandbagged, and has been several times in the past. What about the year when Thorsten won everything and didn't even get a wildcard, wtf was that? It's ok, though. If the US didn't win this time, it would most likely have been the end, and maybe we'll put up our a-team this time.

FYI, in 2013, the year Hohmann won the World 9-ball Championship and was omitted from the team, Matchroom chose to have a special "Twentieth Mosconi" match consisting of the ten players they felt had been the most successful over the event's first twenty years, five on each team. I greatly disapproved at the time of having Matchroom pick the teams and hope it never happens again, but it's not accurate to say that Hohmann was omitted using the usual selection criteria.

His snub was the result of a one time monopolization of the selection process by Matchroom, not due to Johan Ruijsink overlooking him.

 

[spartan]

Wow, Chamat going out on a limb giving a spot to the WPA #1. Last year, in the same month that he won the World 9-ball Championship, Filler wasn't good enough to get a wild card in Chamat's eyes, despite a 5-0 Mosconi Cup campaign in 2017.

Chamat comments suggest he is trying to walk back his bad decision on Filler last year lol.
He isn't the best coach for Europe (which is good for USA). If Napoleon loses again this year, it may be his Waterloo :smile:

 

[jay helfert]

Filler has to be in everybody's top one at this point. Let see how he does going forward? Nonsense. That might have been a reasonable thing to say after his 2017 China Open win or his 5-0 campaign in the 2017 Mosconi Cup. Now, however, he's backed it up in a very big way time and time again.

Being the best doesn't require winning every time. Yes, Ko Ping Chung got Josh last night, and deservedly so, but Josh is the WPA #1 by a mile and his lead will increase as a result of this event.

Filler's performance in the past couple of years is historic. He has faced the toughest fields ever seen in our sport and yet still manages to keep succeeding at the very toughest events.

How long will we have to wait until someone else equals Filler's gold, gold, silver at the three toughest events on the pool calendar in any given one year period? My guess is that it will never happen again.

Filler isn't just the best player in the world, he's the best by a mile. That said, though, like every #1 before him, he'll lose plenty of matches, lose plenty of tournaments, and he'll be caught for #1 by someone at some point.

No case for being the world's best pool player can be made for anyone but Josh Filler. He's not the only superstar in pool, but he's the only one that is the greatest of them all in pool today.

I'm not a Josh Filler fan, just a fan of great pool. Enjoy the Josh Filler show, pool fans, for it's possible you'll never see another like it.

Nonsense you say. A guy has two good years and you're ready to put him in the HOF. Not so fast tiger. You used words like "it will never happen again" and "You'll never see another like it." You may eat those words some day.

Not so long ago Shane won TEN tournaments in one year, all against strong fields of players. They were not world championships, but winning the U.S. Open is the equivalent. Now TWELVE years into his stellar career, I'm waiting for someone to match his records. I've seen too many great young players get side tracked to jump on anyone's bandwagon so quickly.

I do admire everything about Joshua Filler's pool game, but he did show some glaring weaknesses in this final match last night. The other players were watching too and may take advantage the next time they play him. His two mental errors on relatively simple safeties and total lack of knowledge on how to play a simple carom cost him that match. JJ called him out on all three occasions.

What Filler has accomplished in the last year is a remarkable achievement and I acknowledge him for that. He is deserving of his #1 ranking, that's for sure. I want to see how he responds when he falls into a slump, which is bound to happen. Will he bounce back or fall into the pack of contenders?

 

[sjm]

Nonsense you say. A guy has two good years and you're ready to put him in the HOF. Not so fast tiger. You used words like "it will never happen again" and "You'll never see another like it." You may eat those words some day.

Not so long ago Shane won TEN tournaments in one year, all against strong fields of players. They were not world championships, but winning the U.S. Open is the equivalent. Now TWELVE years into his stellar career, I'm waiting for someone to match his records. I've seen too many great young players get side tracked to jump on anyone's bandwagon so quickly.

I do admire everything about Joshua Filler's pool game, but he did show some glaring weaknesses in this final match last night. The other players were watching too and may take advantage the next time they play him. His two mental errors on relatively simple safeties and total lack of knowledge on how to play a simple carom cost him that match. JJ called him out on all three occasions.

What Filler has accomplished in the last year is a remarkable achievement and I acknowledge him for that. He is deserving of his #1 ranking, that's for sure. I want to see how he responds when he falls into a slump, which is bound to happen. Will he bounce back or fall into the pack of contenders?

OK, you agree he's the deserving #1, so you agree he's the top player right now, which is pretty much all I'm saying.

I don't think I even approached the subject of where his career stands against those of the all-time greats, nor for that matter have I given it much thought. Way too early for that. His accomplishments are, quite obviously, dwarfed by those who've had long illustrious careers.

Nothing Shane, an undisputed legend of the game and all-time great, has accomplished in any given two year period compares to this run of excellence by Filler. In a given year, there are just a few events with truly elite, internationally diverse, fields, so nobody's ever won ten such events in a year. Shane's record in WPA play is especially forgettable, which means he doesn't get to the finish line in the events in which the stars from all over the world are present. By the way, with thanks to Matchroom, the US Open is, arguably, now such an event, but this year was probably the first in which all the stars of Asia showed up. It was always a tough event to win, but was historically easier than winning WPA events that had 128 players and far greater international diversity in their fields.

Nobody has figured out how to exploit Filler's weaknesses quite yet, at least not since 2017, but if you feel he is still developing as a player, that means he is on the road to being a legendary player, and I'm guessing that's where he's heading. He is already beating everyone in sight, even in the action room where, at Derby City, he was the only one with guts enough to play high stakes 10-ball against JL Chang, and then he beat him.

I know you've been around pool a little longer than me, Jay, but I haven't seen any young players have a start to their career like this, let alone fall from grace subsequently. A slump at some point is a virtual certainty for Filler, as every great player ever had slumps, but I'm sad for you if you're not enjoying the meteoric rise of this young player, because the new stars of the game are what pool has been all about in every generation. I guess it's the role of the grand old men of our game to protect the image of all the old-timers (in a recent threat about the G.O.A.T., I defended Sigel's place in history and you defended Mizerak's), but rest assured, their reputations are safe and their accomplishments are for keeps.

The past is memorable. The present is exciting, and Filler is part of the reason. Josh is winning the biggest titles in America, Europe and in Asia. Few, if any, have ever had a game that traveled so well. Like you, however, I have no idea what the future may hold for Filler, but this is pretty cool to watch.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

IMO team Europe is being sandbagged, and has been several times in the past. What about the year when Thorsten won everything and didn't even get a wildcard, wtf was that? It's ok, though. If the US didn't win this time, it would most likely have been the end, and maybe we'll put up our a-team this time.

I was happy that the US won the last Mosconi cup, but I feel like everyone involved wanted the US to win, except maybe the actual players on team Europe. I don’t think anyone played anything less than their best but I think the European team was chosen and some matchups made with the US winning in mind.

Hate on me if you like but it seemed that way to me.

 

[skogstokig]

Nonsense you say. A guy has two good years and you're ready to put him in the HOF. Not so fast tiger. You used words like "it will never happen again" and "You'll never see another like it." You may eat those words some day.

Not so long ago Shane won TEN tournaments in one year, all against strong fields of players. They were not world championships, but winning the U.S. Open is the equivalent. Now TWELVE years into his stellar career, I'm waiting for someone to match his records. I've seen too many great young players get side tracked to jump on anyone's bandwagon so quickly.

I do admire everything about Joshua Filler's pool game, but he did show some glaring weaknesses in this final match last night. The other players were watching too and may take advantage the next time they play him. His two mental errors on relatively simple safeties and total lack of knowledge by vi ch on how to play a simple carom cost him that match. JJ called him out on all three occasions.

What Filler has accomplished in the last year is a remarkable achievement and I acknowledge him for that. He is deserving of his #1 ranking, that's for sure. I want to see how he responds when he falls into a slump, which is bound to happen. Will he bounce back or fall into the pack of contenders?

the fields of the latest big events were brutal. the us open in the slump years just didn't have that competition. not taking anything away from shane, but this is a fact. add to that filler travelled to china and won china open, to qatar to win the worlds, to the US to win the open. that and mosconi mvp within 1.5 years. of course he is the best pool player now

 

[skogstokig]

I was happy that the US won the last Mosconi cup, but I feel like everyone involved wanted the US to win, except maybe the actual players on team Europe. I don’t think anyone played anything less than their best but I think the European team was chosen and some matchups made with the US winning in mind.

Hate on me if you like but it seemed that way to me.

it's ranking based, so the selection is kind of automatic and non-negotiable in the euro team. the only exception is the wild card. jayson deserved his spot last year imo

 

[sjm]

it's ranking based, so the selection is kind of automatic and non-negotiable in the euro team. the only exception is the wild card. jayson deserved his spot last year imo

My understanding is that three spots are by ranking and two wild cards. Last year, it went this way:

Highest ranked European player by WPA ranking
Top ranked player on the Eurotour
Second highest ranked Eurotour player
Wild Card #1
Wild Card #2

Niels Feijen was the highest ranked player in the WPA rankings

Kaci was the top ranked Eurotour player

Mario He was the second ranked Eurotour player, but when he forfeited his spot, Eurotour #3 Alex Kazakis replaced him.

Wild cards were Jayson Shaw and Albin Ouschan.

 

[skogstokig]

My understanding is that three spots are by ranking and two wild cards. Last year, it went this way:

Highest ranked European player by WPA ranking
Top ranked player on the Eurotour
Second highest ranked Eurotour player
Wild Card #1
Wild Card #2

Niels Feijen was the highest ranked player in the WPA rankings

Kaci was the top ranked Eurotour player

Mario He was the second ranked Eurotour player, but when he forfeited his spot, Eurotour #3 Alex Kazakis replaced him.

Wild cards were Jayson Shaw and Albin Ouschan.

right. but proof of cencept anyway. it cannot be altered (unfortunately...). albin and shaw were the best in the team. replace albin with filler, same result probably. the poor performances were among the rank qualified - kaci, kazakis, etc. slow players unfamiliar with MC shot clock.

so for this conspiracy to even work there must have been lots of dives in the eurotour, to get kaci and kazakis up in points. funny.

 

[sjm]

right. but proof of cencept anyway. it cannot be altered (unfortunately...). albin and shaw were the best in the team. replace albin with filler, same result probably. the poor performances were among the rank qualified - kaci, kazakis, etc. slow players unfamiliar with MC shot clock.

so for this conspiracy to even work there must have been lots of dives in the eurotour, to get kaci and kazakis up in points. funny.

Make no mistake, I didn't buy into the idea that the selection process was doctored.

 

[skogstokig]

Make no mistake, I didn't buy into the idea that the selection process was doctored.

none made, you are on my list of rational and sensible az:ers.

 

[jay helfert]

OK, you agree he's the deserving #1, so you agree he's the top player right now, which is pretty much all I'm saying.

I don't think I even approached the subject of where his career stands against those of the all-time greats, nor for that matter have I given it much thought. Way too early for that. His accomplishments are, quite obviously, dwarfed by those who've had long illustrious careers.

Nothing Shane, an undisputed legend of the game and all-time great, has accomplished in any given two year period compares to this run of excellence by Filler. In a given year, there are just a few events with truly elite, internationally diverse, fields, so nobody's ever won ten such events in a year. Shane's record in WPA play is especially forgettable, which means he doesn't get to the finish line in the events in which the stars from all over the world are present. By the way, with thanks to Matchroom, the US Open is, arguably, now such an event, but this year was probably the first in which all the stars of Asia showed up. It was always a tough event to win, but was historically easier than winning WPA events that had 128 players and far greater international diversity in their fields.

Nobody has figured out how to exploit Filler's weaknesses quite yet, at least not since 2017, but if you feel he is still developing as a player, that means he is on the road to being a legendary player, and I'm guessing that's where he's heading. He is already beating everyone in sight, even in the action room where, at Derby City, he was the only one with guts enough to play high stakes 10-ball against JL Chang, and then he beat him.

I know you've been around pool a little longer than me, Jay, but I haven't seen any young players have a start to their career like this, let alone fall from grace subsequently. A slump at some point is a virtual certainty for Filler, as every great player ever had slumps, but I'm sad for you if you're not enjoying the meteoric rise of this young player, because the new stars of the game are what pool has been all about in every generation. I guess it's the role of the grand old men of our game to protect the image of all the old-timers (in a recent threat about the G.O.A.T., I defended Sigel's place in history and you defended Mizerak's), but rest assured, their reputations are safe and their accomplishments are for keeps.

The past is memorable. The present is exciting, and Filler is part of the reason. Josh is winning the biggest titles in America, Europe and in Asia. Few, if any, have ever had a game that traveled so well. Like you, however, I have no idea what the future may hold for Filler, but this is pretty cool to watch.

Stu, I love where pro pool is at right now, and it looks like there will be more to come. Promoters are beginning to see the value in the game (streaming) and that bodes well for the future. I am also excited about the great young players who are challenging the old guard right now and Filler is certainly at the top of the list (Kaci was last year and Shaw was the 9-Ball king for a couple of years as well). IMO there are still at least 10-15 players who are near equals, and all are capable of winning any major event. That list will probably grow as well in the near future.

Sadly, I have seen Jon Kucharo come from nowhere (Bettendorf, Iowa) to contend and beat the best players in the world by the age of 20. By age 22 he was washed up, a victim of his own success. Many years ago, there was a teenager named Mark Beilfuss from Michigan that beat all the great 14.1 players that came through playing exhibitions. At 17, he may have been the closest to Mizerak there was. He was out of pool before he hit 20. Michael Coltrain was another great young player sidelined just as he was entering his prime in his mid 20's. There have been others (Chan Witt) and the kid from California who died to young to fulfill their destiny.

Once Johnny Archer quit being a bridesmaid, he seemed to win everything, starting at age 21. Of course, his career continued throughout the 90's with his being named the player of the decade. He was still in his 20's in 1999-2000. So, we have seen other prodigies, but none of them won back to back majors against elite fields like Filler has done. IMO he should have won this one too, but had a lapse in the final match. It was definitely not his best performance.

 

[spartan]

Updated WPA rankings

WPA rankings updated after W10B and Diamond Open. Jump for a few players https://wpapool.com/ranking/
#1 Filler now has 31000 points separated from top 5 by 6000 points to 8000 points.
Remaining big events -China Open in Sep, International Open in Oct and World 9 Ball in Dec all total 20,000 + points.
Filler has to consistently go deep in remaining events. If not, we could have new WPA #1 end of year.