Is Kielwood Shaft relly low deflection?

[Pubo]

From what I know a kielwood shaft is a shaft that has undergone a process called torrefaction, where the wood is heated to high temperature to remove sugar and water in the wood. I don't know much about the science behind it, but I'm curious as to whether this treatment actually reduces deflection of the shaft to a noticeable degree.

For reference, Billiard corner had a review on Hsunami shafts Billiard Corner Hsunami Cue Review. Thanks in advance!

 

[JoeyInCali]

@JoeyInCali can you share who the provider is ?
Id rather save some money going to the source .

I don't divulge private suppliers.

 

[SKILLZELITE]

I don't divulge private suppliers.

What about purchasing the shaft directly from you? If this is a possibility, lets discuss via dm?

Thanks.

 

[DJKeys]

I bought a Hsunami shaft from Richard. I ordered it at 3.9 ounces, 12.5mm. It came in at 3.91 ounces and 12.5 mm. I have the 2.0 on order as well.

-dj

 

[Sofaking]

I do not find the Kielwood shaft that I own to be very LD. Maybe a little; but, nothing like a predator wood or carbon. Plays like a really good maple shaft to me, which it is, so that makes perfect sense. I do not own a Hsunami btw so if Richard makes his with LD technology built in that would be a different experience.

 

[mikemosconi]

I recently purchased a Keilwood shaft - the shaft had some kind of finish on it. One cleaning with 90% isopropyl and the finish was gone from the shaft- which I prefer a natural wood shaft to one with a finish on it. Mine was advertised as 3.8 ounces, but it was actually 3.3 ounces- I assume a typo by the seller- a little light for me as a shaft- so far it plays well though, not sure on deflection, I just always aim where I have for 60 years now- so hard for me to see the changes

 

[RandyinHawaii]

I have a Jim Pierce torrified/kielwoood shaft and it is definitely lower deflection than the same tip diameter maple shaft that I have played with. I have found it to be lower than some CF shafts, but not as low as say Revo or Defy shafts.

 

[Bavafongoul]

A shaft maker can’t guarantee the final weight of the Kielwood shaft, or or at least that’s what a couple of different cue makers told me. Obviously, with a piloted shaft, the added weight of the receiver is already known but the weight of the wood changes. During the torrification process, it was explained to me the wood has its moisture and sugar content extracted by kiln heat under vacuum pressure. Afterwood, moisture has to be reintroduced to the wood with a moisture goal of approx. 4%. The final weight of the shaft isn’t known until after it’s been torrified. There’s also the shaft diameter & taper length that affects the shaft weight. I think Richard Hsu produces the most handsome shafts and pretty much delivers what you want. He may make the best Kielwood shafts around bar none.

I was tempted to get one but the price is steep. Then I tried two other makers that were half the price of a Tsunami shaft. One I own and another that my friend has that fits my cues. Again, I think Richard Hsu makes the nicest Kielwood shafts but I have to ask myself, for twice the price, how much better, if any, could they play than the one I own or my friend. I think both of these other shafts already exceeded my expectations and play terrific……for half the price. Maybe producing a top quality Kielwood shaft doesn’t have to become the equivalent price of a carbon shaft. Well, just food for thought, or perhaps some discussion. I think Kielwood is the best version of a wood shaft.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I recently purchased a Keilwood shaft - the shaft had some kind of finish on it. One cleaning with 90% isopropyl and the finish was gone from the shaft- which I prefer a natural wood shaft to one with a finish on it. Mine was advertised as 3.8 ounces, but it was actually 3.3 ounces- I assume a typo by the seller- a little light for me as a shaft- so far it plays well though, not sure on deflection, I just always aim where I have for 60 years now- so hard for me to see the changes

Mike, it’s common for Kielwood shafts to be 3.3 - 3.5 ozs. You have to look and make sure the weight is right.
That why I bought mine from Martin @ Superior Cues (3.8 ozs. Flat Faced Radial) 12.85mm and it is delightful.

I tried one of my cue maker’s version and it was too light. I called him and he explained the process and why
the initial inches of the shaft has to be lighter to control deflection. In any event, it didn’t click for me when I
played with one and knew it was the light weight. 3.8 ozs. is the lightest shaft I want since it meets my minimum
weight ratio for my cues. I prefer 4.0-4.2 ozs but 3.8 is within my weight range. And the Schmelke shaft my friend
costs less than my Cory Barnhart shaft. In fact, after Xmas, I just may order a big pin Kielwood from Schmelke.

 

[mikemosconi]

Mike, it’s common for Kielwood shafts to be 3.3 - 3.5 ozs. You have to look and make sure the weight is right.
That why I bought mine from Martin @ Superior Cues (3.8 ozs. Flat Faced Radial) 12.85mm and it is delightful.

I tried one of my cue maker’s version and it was too light. I called him and he explained the process and why
the initial inches of the shaft has to be lighter to control deflection. In any event, it didn’t click for me when I
played with one and knew it was the light weight. 3.8 ozs. is the lightest shaft I want since it meets my minimum
weight ratio for my cues. I prefer 4.0-4.2 ozs but 3.8 is within my weight range. And the Schmelke shaft my friend
costs less than my Cory Barnhart shaft. In fact, after Xmas, I just may order a big pin Kielwood from Schmelke.

Yes I am familiar with the shaft roasting process - this was a 30
Inch shaft - so I made an assumption that the length may have added a few tenths of an ounce - a trusted seller here - but the shaft weight advertised was off by half an ounce- I assume he just made a typo - seems like an honest guy- I should have verified the weight with him before offering to buy - but I intend to sell it anyhow when my Hsunami shaft arrives - if ever - that is another story - a cue maker who can’t deliver on time and stops communicating - let’s see how that one plays out before I call him out on this site - I losing my patience with him.

 

[fjk]

Yes I am familiar with the shaft roasting process - this was a 30
Inch shaft - so I made an assumption that the length may have added a few tenths of an ounce - a trusted seller here - but the shaft weight advertised was off by half an ounce- I assume he just made a typo - seems like an honest guy- I should have verified the weight with him before offering to buy - but I intend to sell it anyhow when my Hsunami shaft arrives - if ever - that is another story - a cue maker who can’t deliver on time and stops communicating - let’s see how that one plays out before I call him out on this site - I losing my patience with him.

Thanks for the heads-up on Hsunami. I was on the fence with ordering one (expensive, long lead time, 40% down). Your feedback nudged me into another direction.

I do love that chocolate brown color he achieves though. Who else could do that?

 

[mikemosconi]

Thanks for the heads-up on Hsunami. I was on the fence with ordering one (expensive, long lead time, 40% down). Your feedback nudged me into another direction.

I do love that chocolate brown color he achieves though. Who else could do that?

I don’t know - I try to be reasonable and patient - have to shop around I guess

 

[Paul_#_]

A kielwood option is a kielwood and carbon fiber shaft sold by Pure X, FUZE. It uses the same process that Lucasi uses in its non-torrified maple: Pro 10 Splice Carbon InFUZED maple/CF shaft. Fuze sells for $380 at PoolDawg

Pure X HXTKW1 Kielwood Infused Shaft - 12mm

For those that are envious of those with a Carbon Fiber because you aren't willing to let go of the wooden feel! All the durability of a carbon fiber with the sound and feel of a wooden shaft.

www.pooldawg.com

What is Carbon Fiber InFUZED Technology?

Introducing our revolutionary Carbon Fiber InFUZED Technology performance shafts, the pinnacle of cue sports innovation. Integrated into our all-new Lucasi Pro 10 Splice Carbon InFUZED Shaft and FUZE Carbon InFUZED Kielwood Solid Shaft, this technology offers players unparalleled control and...

www.cueandcase.com

 

[Coos Cues]

I bought 50 torrified squares and turned the into one inch rounds in one sitting along with 50 regular hard maple squares I had.

Just like the hard maple shafts the weight varied substantially from one to the next but here is the bottom line. The box of 50 torrified rounds weighed almost exactly the same as the box of 50 hard maple shafts when turned round. There was only two ounces difference over 50 making the average weight almost identical.

Use this information as you will. This was what I observed.

 

[Paul_#_]

he box of 50 torrified rounds weighed almost exactly the same as the box of 50 hard maple shafts when turned round.

Therefore, a cue stick of the same proportions made of maple or torrified maple weigh the same.

It appears that when the maple was torrified, it lost weight that was water and its volume shrunk. This resulted in the wood in ounces per square inch the same for maple and torrified maple.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Yes I am familiar with the shaft roasting process - this was a 30
Inch shaft - so I made an assumption that the length may have added a few tenths of an ounce - a trusted seller here - but the shaft weight advertised was off by half an ounce- I assume he just made a typo - seems like an honest guy- I should have verified the weight with him before offering to buy - but I intend to sell it anyhow when my Hsunami shaft arrives - if ever - that is another story - a cue maker who can’t deliver on time and stops communicating - let’s see how that one plays out before I call him out on this site - I losing my patience with him.

Mike,

My best buddy, Leland, ordered two Schmelke shafts in 30” because he wanted a 1” Juma ferrule.

The shafts were a 3/8x10 13mm weighing 3.91 ozs. and 5/16x14 13 mm weighing 4.3 ozs. The shafts
have a really nice long taper, smooth as glass, wood looks terrific and both shafts play really nice.
Turnaround time from order date to shipping is approximately 2-3 weeks. I was so impressed I’ll get
a 30” 3/8x10 but with the standard 1/2” Juma ferrule. The price is hundreds less, plus turnaround time.

I think Tsunamu is the nicest looking Kielwood shaft but a prettier shaft doesn’t mean it plays any better
than a less attractive looking one. Just like with cues, the design, or look, doesn’t improve how it plays.
The Schmelke SP I got from you is really a great cue. I tried my friend’s KW shaft on it & boy, it played nice.

Matt

 

[boogieman]

A shaft maker can’t guarantee the final weight of the Kielwood shaft, or or at least that’s what a couple of different cue makers told me. Obviously, with a piloted shaft, the added weight of the receiver is already known but the weight of the wood changes. During the torrification process, it was explained to me the wood has its moisture and sugar content extracted by kiln heat under vacuum pressure. Afterwood, moisture has to be reintroduced to the wood with a moisture goal of approx. 4%. The final weight of the shaft isn’t known until after it’s been torrified. There’s also the shaft diameter & taper length that affects the shaft weight. I think Richard Hsu produces the most handsome shafts and pretty much delivers what you want. He may make the best Kielwood shafts around bar none.

I was tempted to get one but the price is steep. Then I tried two other makers that were half the price of a Tsunami shaft. One I own and another that my friend has that fits my cues. Again, I think Richard Hsu makes the nicest Kielwood shafts but I have to ask myself, for twice the price, how much better, if any, could they play than the one I own or my friend. I think both of these other shafts already exceeded my expectations and play terrific……for half the price. Maybe producing a top quality Kielwood shaft doesn’t have to become the equivalent price of a carbon shaft. Well, just food for thought, or perhaps some discussion. I think Kielwood is the best version of a wood shaft.

I really liked the sound, feel and looks of a kielwood shaft. That said I had one where a crack formed in the middle of the wood, no idea why but it's almost as if the grains separated. No damage to the cue only it started sounding odd. You could kind of flex it and see the grain separate slightly. Like they just sheared off from each other in about a 2" section of the wood.

It is also quite brittle, I've seen someone smack the table with one and it exploded. And while it wasn't a soft smack, but also wasn't hard enough that it should have broken the shaft. I also don't like the fact that if you get a small ding (different shaft) it's much harder to steam out. They aren't bad shafts at all but they aren't as durable as a regular maple shaft IMHO.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I really liked the sound, feel and looks of a kielwood shaft. That said I had one where a crack formed in the middle of the wood, no idea why but it's almost as if the grains separated. No damage to the cue only it started sounding odd. You could kind of flex it and see the grain separate slightly. Like they just sheared off from each other in about a 2" section of the wood.

It is also quite brittle, I've seen someone smack the table with one and it exploded. And while it wasn't a soft smack, but also wasn't hard enough that it should have broken the shaft. I also don't like the fact that if you get a small ding (different shaft) it's much harder to steam out. They aren't bad shafts at all but they aren't as durable as a regular maple shaft IMHO.

One of the last steps in the torrification process is reintroducing moisture to the shaft and it requires a small approx. % that tends to average around 4%. I think if you don’t reintroduce the proper amount of moisture to the shaft, it likely becomes more brittle like. And let’s admit that it always comes down to the quality of the wood selected. As far as dings, I had one in 3 months and it steamed out perfectly. The wood actually seems more durable than my cue’s original maple shaft. BTW, what would happen to a CF shaft hitting it against the pool table rails? If you are careless or are just a neglectful pool player, stick with using Sneaky Pete cues until you develop more regard for your pool cues.

I posted photos on a different thread but here’s photos of my Barnhart roasted maple shaft and Schmelke’s Kielwood shafts my friend ordered. All of these shaft are great…….surveyor straight, great taper, excellent weight, very reasonable prices, minimal waiting time, terrific finish and they play fabulous. Now this is my first Kielwood shaft and the only comparison I can make is based on two cue brands, Barnhart & Schmelke. I don’t need to try any others. Both brands play terrific. The only question in my mind is I can pay more for a Kielwood shaft, in fact up to double the price of a Schmelke version, but how much better than “terrrific” can any brand Kielwood shaft be than the ones that I own and have tried?

The SP Schmelke cue I got from Mike is really great. The Schmelke shafts my friend got are really great. The Kielwood roasted maple shaft Cory Barnhart made is really great. Why should I spend more than I needed to to get great results? I am sure there are always anecdotal stories about bad experiences with a cue maker but just use common sense in selecting who to buy from. It’s a challenge to find old growth wood to produce flat faced 4.2 - 4.3 oz. shafts nowadays. Kielwood is an excellent way of preserving the future of maple shafts in a world seemingly becoming dominated by CF. The Barnhart shaft is the middle shaft with the short 1/2” Juma ferrule. It weighs 3.8 ozs and 12.85mm. I put a Kamui tip on it.

 

[Coos Cues]

Therefore, a cue stick of the same proportions made of maple or torrified maple weigh the same.

It appears that when the maple was torrified, it lost weight that was water and its volume shrunk. This resulted in the wood in ounces per square inch the same for maple and torrified maple.

Just on average they weigh the same. There are very heavy and very light weight of both varieties.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I spoke with a cue maker I enormously respect. His cue making is garnishing enormous praise
and deservedly so. He explained the process of making a Kielwood shaft and pretty much
stated that a shaft sure isn’t going to gain weight from undergoing torrification. In other words,
the shaft comes out lighter afterward, at least for all the shafts he’s produced. The temperature,
vacuum pressure and roasting time all play a part in torrifying the shaft. I’m not saying Coos Coos
is wrong but I haven’t encountered any cue maker expressing that view but rather just the opposite.

 

[sbrownn]

I am a traditional player that likes traditional looks and wood feel, so I think I would like to try a non-radial roasted maple shaft. Dominiak's cues roasts their non-radial cut torrefied maple shafts with two options, dark and medium. Does the roast time / darkness of the roast make the maple stiffer?

With all LD maple and CF shafts I've tried, I've always gone back to my original hard rock maple non-LD factory shafts. Because of this, I don't think I want to try Dominiak's radial cut torrefied maple shafts. Are people in agreement here?

I hope to be placing an order for the following very soon (or should I skip it and just stick with my factory hard rock non-LD maple?):

- https://dominiakcues.com/shop/ols/products/kielwood-finish-cutpro-taper-shaft-grade-aa/v/KFSH AA
- $35.90 for medium roast color (starting stock)
- 12.5mm long pro taper about 12+" in length
- total shaft length 29"
- tapped for 3/8x10, one of my joint pins is almost 1.5"
- 1/4" tall basic black small joint ring
- .850" joint size
- smallish size white ferrule
- G2 soft tip

total $180 - price includes shipping and taxes (great price out the door!)

TIA