Is Rasson making a better table than Diamond and GC?

iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was looking at the Rasson website, and their table construction looks like a nice design. The table is "Innovator Plus". Their rails are phenolic impregnated wood. Their frame is extruded aluminum x-box sections (like the 80/20 stuff). They use Artemis 66 pool cushions (not carom cushions). Their leveling system looks really slick. From what I can tell of the pictures, you can adjust the level of the slate from underneath the table, with the cloth on, by turning a large central screw and then locking the position with 2 smaller screws.

I don't know how an aluminum frame would compare to wood. I think it would probably be straighter and more consistent. But, it would probably have less mass. Mass is what reduces noise and vibrations in a system, so that might affect the roll of the ball, I don't know...

Has anyone installed one of these yet? Take a look, the link below has the full specs, and I took a screenshot of the frame and leveling system:

https://www.rasson.cn/innovator

Screen Shot 2017-12-09 at 4.12.41 PM.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2017-12-09 at 4.08.54 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2017-12-09 at 4.08.54 PM.png
    81.5 KB · Views: 2,547
Aluminum would be noisier, I would think.

Still Artemis cushions. You would think with their clout, they would make their own rubber and emulate Brunswick Super Speed.
 
The base of the table looks pretty neat, but the top of the table - rails and aprons, looks identical to the Murrey commercial tables out of the 80s used in The Color of Money. Too squared and boxy looking for a modern table, IMO.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Aluminum would be noisier, I would think.

Still Artemis cushions. You would think with their clout, they would make their own rubber and emulate Brunswick Super Speed.
Click to expand...
Just like no one has yet to perfect making pool balls to compare with Saluc Belgian balls (Aramiths and Brunswick Centennials), no one has come close to making cushion rubbers to compare to the German cushions - Artemis and Klematch/Kleber. No, not even Superspeeds compare to the quality of the German cushions - Just ask Ernesto.
 
Brunswick Gold Crown pool tables are the best tables made. I could have any table I want and I chose the Brunswick Gold Crown 4. Lots of people like the Diamond tables but I don't care for their flat top rails. I will stick with the Brunswick table and the Brunswick Centennial balls as well.

Thanks

Kevin
 
ChrisinNC said:
Just like no one has yet to perfect making pool balls to compare with Saluc Belgian balls (Aramiths and Brunswick Centennials), no one has come close to making cushion rubbers to compare to the German cushions - Artemis and Klematch/Kleber. No, not even Superspeeds compare to the quality of the German cushions - Just ask Ernesto.
Click to expand...

You mean nobody has made cushions like the original Monarch cushions by Brunswick.
 
$$$$$$

I thought my Pro-Am was pricey until I saw was the Rasson Victory and GC5 went for. Diamond is a bargain by comparison.
 
I didn't want to bring this up before, but I will now. Most of you probably noticed how slow the table was playing and how the balls didn't rebound well off the cushions. I really think that there was something wrong with those particular cushions installed on that table. Whether it was the rubber or the install I don't know, but I do know they didn't play right. Thus you saw Shane (and others) having to pound balls to get position over and over again.

I never mentioned this on-air as Rasson was a major sponsor and that would be a good way to lose my job. I just said the table was playing slow and left it at that. Many of you probably could read between the lines. There are a lot of very smart pool minds on here (and a few haters as well). :grin:
 
iusedtoberich said:
I was looking at the Rasson website, and their table construction looks like a nice design. The table is "Innovator Plus". Their rails are phenolic impregnated wood. Their frame is extruded aluminum x-box sections (like the 80/20 stuff). They use Artemis 66 pool cushions (not carom cushions). Their leveling system looks really slick. From what I can tell of the pictures, you can adjust the level of the slate from underneath the table, with the cloth on, by turning a large central screw and then locking the position with 2 smaller screws.

I don't know how an aluminum frame would compare to wood. I think it would probably be straighter and more consistent. But, it would probably have less mass. Mass is what reduces noise and vibrations in a system, so that might affect the roll of the ball, I don't know...

Has anyone installed one of these yet? Take a look, the link below has the full specs, and I took a screenshot of the frame and leveling system:

https://www.rasson.cn/innovator

View attachment 478107
Click to expand...

Regardless of the design it's 90% execution. From the kind of machining that I have seen from China I would not expect much. Also a bunch of dissimilar materials expand/contract at different rates causing issues. You want metal frame I suggest looking at Kimsteel (KSteel2).

The two that I tried out did not impress me. The Center platform looks kind of cool but falls short on overall stability and adjustments.
 
The disitinctive V-shape of the table base made me think about stability. Has this table enough stability?

But after the last ball of the Mosconi Cup, the whole European Team made it onto the table and was jumping up and down - Well that's a proove of stability (although Denis Hatch additionally on the table would have been even more challenging).

Anyway, the table looks nice and seems to be stable. The cushions can be changed.

Where I am struggling is that Aluminium has quite a sensitivity to temperature - It stretches when warm. And app. 5 times as much as wood. Wood and Slate are app. similar in temperature stretch. So I will also stick to my Gold Crown for now.
 
gehawe said:
The disitinctive V-shape of the table base made me think about stability. Has this table enough stability?

But after the last ball of the Mosconi Cup, the whole European Team made it onto the table and was jumping up and down - Well that's a proove of stability (although Denis Hatch additionally on the table would have been even more challenging).

Anyway, the table looks nice and seems to be stable. The cushions can be changed.

Where I am struggling is that Aluminium has quite a sensitivity to temperature - It stretches when warm. And app. 5 times as much as wood. Wood and Slate are app. similar in temperature stretch. So I will also stick to my Gold Crown for now.
Click to expand...
The aluminum in a pool table is never going get warm enough to change shape.
 
Nothing like Diamond

Small tables big tables you name it when you have played for years on a diamond pro -am you will immediately notice flaws in other tables. Not denegrating rasson tables cos i think they are ok but when they set one up for the GB9 ball tour Jayson Shaw immediately noticed that while it plays similar to a diamond the attention to detail and the finish was poor in comparison. The balls bounced out regularly from side pockets. If you noticed from sky cam at Mosconi Cup they had to put jerry rigged cushion inserts in the side pocket wells also the seems of the slates are not finished as well you can feel where the indent joint is very near the cushions poor finishing IMHO
 
The coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminum is roughly 0.000013 in/in per degree F. Say the lengthwise main beams are 9 ft. long and the table was assembled 70 degrees. How much would it change in length at say 100 degrees?

30 degree temp change x 9 ft x 12in/ft x .000013 in/in per degree F = 0.042". In just 30 degrees, that piece of aluminum expanded almost 1/16".

garczar said:
The aluminum in a pool table is never going get warm enough to change shape.
Click to expand...
 
gutshot said:
The coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminum is roughly 0.000013 in/in per degree F. Say the lengthwise main beams are 9 ft. long and the table was assembled 70 degrees. How much would it change in length at say 100 degrees?

30 degree temp change x 9 ft x 12in/ft x .000013 in/in per degree F = 0.042". In just 30 degrees, that piece of aluminum expanded almost 1/16".
Click to expand...

Exactly!
Or in "Non Imperial Measures", the change in length is more than 1mm.

It is of cause also true, that in a warm and humid climate like China, wood is also working. So we don't know what's better. But if you set up this table in a living area and you have some temperature change like in Europe or the moderate areas of the US, the Table will have a gap between the slates sometimes.

Therefore my previous post: What does a super sturdy frame help, if the slate moves with temperature.

Gerhard
 
For a steel frame table Gabriels is far better than Kimsteel...better cushions too.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Nick B said:
Regardless of the design it's 90% execution. From the kind of machining that I have seen from China I would not expect much. Also a bunch of dissimilar materials expand/contract at different rates causing issues. You want metal frame I suggest looking at Kimsteel (KSteel2).

The two that I tried out did not impress me. The Center platform looks kind of cool but falls short on overall stability and adjustments.
Click to expand...
 
Boddabing said:
Small tables big tables you name it when you have played for years on a diamond pro -am you will immediately notice flaws in other tables. Not denegrating rasson tables cos i think they are ok but when they set one up for the GB9 ball tour Jayson Shaw immediately noticed that while it plays similar to a diamond the attention to detail and the finish was poor in comparison. The balls bounced out regularly from side pockets. If you noticed from sky cam at Mosconi Cup they had to put jerry rigged cushion inserts in the side pocket wells also the seems of the slates are not finished as well you can feel where the indent joint is very near the cushions poor finishing IMHO
Click to expand...
I recall on one of Hatch's jump shot attempts in a doubles match, the OB jumped out of the side pocket, to his disbelief.
 
Nick B said:
Oh it wasn’t a recommendation. Just an example. Yes the Gabriel’s are better still.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Regarding Gabriels tables, yes I can second Scott's post, as we have all Gabriels tables in our room in NC, including a 10-footer. There's just so few pool rooms with Gabriels tables in the US, so not many people know how well they play, as the company is mainly known worldwide for their tournament 3 cushion tables.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top