Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nobody has said that John Schmidt is a greater player than Willie Mosconi, and i doubt that anyone believes that, especially John Schmidt.

What did happen is that John Schmidt had a run of 626, breaking a record set by Mosconi. He hasn't dominated the world of 14.1 like Mosconi, but he put in a lot of focused effort to surpass just one of the records that Mosconi established 77 years ago.

John Schmidt isn't the BCA league champion from the pool hall down the street. He's a professional player with world-calibre skills. One sign of that skill is his professional record. Another sign of that skill is that no one else has surpassed Mosconi's record in 77 years. And yet another sign of that skill is that he surpassed Mosconi's record with less 14.1 experience than Mosconi.

Once Mosconi surpassed Caras record by more than 200 balls, he probably felt there was no need in trying to surpass his own record. In the newspaper reports and in his book, he was clearly proud of the 526. But if Caras had run 550 the following year, do you think Mosconi would have tried to surpass it?

Everyone who's congratulated Schmidt for his accomplishment knows that it isn't the end of the story.

We all know of players out there who have skills equal or greater than Schmidt, and many of them have far less experience than him. Hopefully the coverage will encourage other players to try to surpass Schmidt's record.

Well, actually there has been some sentiment expressed to the effect that JS is the greater player but I think anyone in the know knows thats ludicrous.

I do believe there will be some serious attempts to break the 626 in the near term, with unedited video available after the fact.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No, that would make him a golfer that had 21 holes in one, on a par 3.

JS ran more balls than WM, 626 to his 526. It isn't about which one is a better pool player, it's about the high run.

I think you just made my point.

Lou Figueroa
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
U just being u! Nope, but u must be mentally challenged. And, I don't need to push my bicycles uphill to ride back downhill.
U/Ur Group, have no facts to be weighed, no rational minds to agree on anything except ur mental inability to arrive at a feasible conclusion, much less one that could be confused with being accurate.
Step up to the plate, at least, try to be a man, and admit to that which you cannot comprehend.
Ok: I cannot comprehend how you still proceed as though you have any credibility at all.

All your allegations have been disproven and your position- that you have some sort of entitlement to the 626 vid- is beyond stupid.
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Silver Member
Thomas Engert of Germany definitely tried. And got within 35 balls of passing Willie.
His 491 might be one of the highest left-hander Straight Pool runs in front of witnesses.

Arnaldo
Thomas did not set up video equipment or make any announcement that I'm aware of. After just having a conversation with Shane Tyree of the BCA he recommended video if possible and a few witnesses and a person qualified to give their opinion that they agree a run is legit to get the BCA to approve of any records.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I do believe there will be some serious attempts to break the 626 in the near term, with unedited video available after the fact.

Lou Figueroa

Glad to see that you agree that 626 is the new number to beat. Congratulations to John Schmidt for motivating others to attempt to break your record.
 

WildWing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nobody has said that John Schmidt is a greater player than Willie Mosconi, and i doubt that anyone believes that, especially John Schmidt.

What did happen is that John Schmidt had a run of 626, breaking a record set by Mosconi. He hasn't dominated the world of 14.1 like Mosconi, but he put in a lot of focused effort to surpass just one of the records that Mosconi established 77 years ago.

John Schmidt isn't the BCA league champion from the pool hall down the street. He's a professional player with world-calibre skills. One sign of that skill is his professional record. Another sign of that skill is that no one else has surpassed Mosconi's record in 77 years. And yet another sign of that skill is that he surpassed Mosconi's record with less 14.1 experience than Mosconi.

Once Mosconi surpassed Caras record by more than 200 balls, he probably felt there was no need in trying to surpass his own record. In the newspaper reports and in his book, he was clearly proud of the 526. But if Caras had run 550 the following year, do you think Mosconi would have tried to surpass it?

Everyone who's congratulated Schmidt for his accomplishment knows that it isn't the end of the story.

We all know of players out there who have skills equal or greater than Schmidt, and many of them have far less experience than him. Hopefully the coverage will encourage other players to try to surpass Schmidt's record.
I think that's the key thought here. I don't think anyone is saying John has a better 14.1 record than Mosconi, or that he is the better player. I think a good case can be made that Mosconi is the greatest 14.1 player of all time, given not only competition, but all the exhibitions that he did.

High runs are another matter, and John has beat Mosconi's official run, though Mosconi had some in the 600s too. Not to be left out, but Babe Cranfield ran over 700 twice. The high run is not the same thing as the greatest player, and a non stop thread doesn't do that justice.

Would it make people happy to admit that Mosconi was the best 14.1 competition player, Cranfield has the highest run ever, and John has the official high run? I think those are the facts. But, some are unhappy, and will continue to be...

All the best,
WW
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well, actually there has been some sentiment expressed to the effect that JS is the greater player but I think anyone in the know knows thats ludicrous.
Why? One COULD say that John is the greater player based on his mastery of 14.1 AND other disciplines. One could say that 14.1 isn't as tough as people think when within a few weeks of learning it a top 9 ball player ran 200 in the finals of a tournament. One could say that the overall skill level is higher now among the world's elite players and speculate that many of them would have been among the elite in 14.1 had they played in the 40s50s60s.... what can definitely be said is that we will never know because at this point it's just another one of those comparing eras discussions that can only be speculative and tend to be passionate.

John once made a salient point where he stated that if the best players in America all lived within 50 miles of each other then they would be as good as players from Taiwan and the Philippines since they would be competing with each other constantly. So perhaps if today's elite players were in competitions that lasted months with hundreds of matches needing to be played to qualify for the regional and national championships then it's likely that one or more of them would have equaled Willie's prowess and been competitive with him. But we will simply never know.

What we do know is that we have a new record holder who can at least do what the old masters have done and that's run a hundred at will, run a couple hundred with ease and who has publicly run over 600 through perseverance and determination without a rival/mentor like Greenleaf to compete against on a daily basis.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You’re slipping Lou, you do not know what the point is.

i will help, it‘s that JS ran enough balls to shatter the old record!

OK, sure

But you’ll have to do better than chest beating to help.

Lou Figueroa
oh where, oh where
can that unedited video be
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why? One COULD say that John is the greater player based on his mastery of 14.1 AND other disciplines. One could say that 14.1 isn't as tough as people think when within a few weeks of learning it a top 9 ball player ran 200 in the finals of a tournament. One could say that the overall skill level is higher now among the world's elite players and speculate that many of them would have been among the elite in 14.1 had they played in the 40s50s60s.... what can definitely be said is that we will never know because at this point it's just another one of those comparing eras discussions that can only be speculative and tend to be passionate.

John once made a salient point where he stated that if the best players in America all lived within 50 miles of each other then they would be as good as players from Taiwan and the Philippines since they would be competing with each other constantly. So perhaps if today's elite players were in competitions that lasted months with hundreds of matches needing to be played to qualify for the regional and national championships then it's likely that one or more of them would have equaled Willie's prowess and been competitive with him. But we will simply never know.

What we do know is that we have a new record holder who can at least do what the old masters have done and that's run a hundred at will, run a couple hundred with ease and who has publicly run over 600 through perseverance and determination without a rival/mentor like Greenleaf to compete against on a daily basis.

One could say you are just full of ca-ca.

Lou Figueroa
not that moi
would ever say
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
One could say you are just full of ca-ca.

Lou Figueroa
not that moi
would ever say
One could and one has many times. But as we have seen your "embellishments" busted many times it is clear which of us is full of it.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
;-) I said break the 626, not “the record.”

Lou Figueroa
Yeah because 626 is just an arbitrary number chosen out of thin air. Let me help you out, the BCA certified longest public run record. That's the 626 you were referring to and the number that your boss is exerting effort to beat. If not then your boss can explain WHICH number gets the prizes (incentives) and we can discuss from that number.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ok guys after reading this comment I have to ask a direct statement.
Please name any players that have tryed to set a BCA record since Mosconis 526.

Please name just 1 other than JS.
I doubt anyone else has attempted it in the fashion that Schmidt did. But I imagine there are plenty of people who would have submitted their run to the BCA for recognition as a record if they had actually made such a run. You, as I recall, have videoed some of your practice sessions in the past. If you had run a zillion in one of those runs would you not have submitted it?

How about the high-run challenges of the past, with some of the attempts on video. If one of those had been record breaking, would it not have been submitted to the BCA?

How about the 2013 Accu-Stats 14.1 Invitational. Those games were to just 75 points, but anyone who got to 75 on a run of at least 50 was allowed to continue until he missed. Souquet, Hohmann, and Immonen, collectively, got to keep going past the 75-point game score 8 times (all videoed). Don't you think Pat Fleming would have loved to capture a record-level run on one of those?

And, from what you said above, the BCA, even today, would not insist on a video of the run, just pretty clear evidence (including witnesses) that it was legitimate. That pretty much means that the answer to your "Please name ..." statement is everyone who has ever tried running balls (and is keeping count properly) in the presence of other people who are knowledgeable about straight pool.
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Silver Member
I doubt anyone else has attempted it in the fashion that Schmidt did. But I imagine there are plenty of people who would have submitted their run to the BCA for recognition as a record if they had actually made such a run. You, as I recall, have videoed some of your practice sessions in the past. If you had run a zillion in one of those runs would you not have submitted it?



And, from what you said above, the BCA, even today, would not insist on a video of the run, just pretty clear evidence (including witnesses) that it was legitimate. That pretty much means that the answer to your "Please name ..." statement is everyone who has ever tried running balls (and is keeping count properly) in the presence of other people who are knowledgeable about straight pool.
What fashion Js tried? You say doubt i say no one not 1 single person dead or alive every racked up balls to beat a BCA record. If you can prove of 1 person please inform us. Im a good historian of 14.1 and knew Mosconi and Lassiter and many others.
I only videoed a few runs in the worst conditions possible so There couldnt be any BCA records for sure and as matter of fact when the discussion comes along about 526/626/768 and so on my high run is only 339 and many times Ive had good runs going and quit because I had other things that were more important to attend too.
I did run 311 which is not even half of 626 but it was on a (ft. diamond with pro cut pockets and the only run on a Diamond over 300. My 339 is the highest Ive ever hreard of on a Connelly Ultimate table so those runs Im proud of and if my level of play was 25% better I think under the right conditions 700 might have been able to happen.
Im have some events soon where high run attempts will be made but I will not be participating as Im the promoter and feel it could be a conflict of interest but I do have the right to change my mind.

As far as the BCA I think we are gonna move forward with submitting Cranfields 768 for a record as seeing it was an exhibition and there are witnesses to the run that can sign an affidavit to it happening. They did not have a video from 1970 for it but we will find out if what and who is available is able to be enough for his run to be a record.
 

arnaldo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thomas did not set up video equipment or make any announcement that I'm aware of. After just having a conversation with Shane Tyree of the BCA he recommended video if possible and a few witnesses and a person qualified to give their opinion that they agree a run is legit to get the BCA to approve of any records.
FWIW, my opinion is that the clear intentionality of what you've planned, Bobby, and your bulletproofing adherence to those two (red-fonted) conditions are what makes your upcoming series -- enabling video-ed & purposeful attempts at new world record runs -- so unique and precedent-setting. Never heard of this exact thing being tried anywhere. A totally admirable and fascinating thing to look forward to, for all 14.1 devotees anywhere in the world.

Hope your creation excites plenty of promoters to do likewise in a lot of countries. What a stimulant to our beloved, preferred discipline (and boon to emerging and veteran players everywhere who get to realize the special skill-building benefit of learning to play 14.1, and instructively watching top-level performers do it).

Arnaldo
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah because 626 is just an arbitrary number chosen out of thin air. Let me help you out, the BCA certified longest public run record. That's the 626 you were referring to and the number that your boss is exerting effort to beat. If not then your boss can explain WHICH number gets the prizes (incentives) and we can discuss from that number.

I volunteered to help BC.

And he has given me a free hand to do and write whatever I want ;-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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