Is taking pool instructions a good idea?????

bhale

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I'm considering taking some pool lessons but I've never met anyone who has and i don't know if it's a good use of time and money.

I'm an average player. Playing 8 ball on a barbox i can usually run 5-6 balls before i miss and i can get a ball on the break 80% of the time. I see patterns and usually think 3-5 balls ahead. Mostly i just get further and further out of line with each shot till the shots get too hard.

What's your experience with instructors?

Brian :)
 
So I'm considering taking some pool lessons but I've never met anyone who has and i don't know if it's a good use of time and money.

I'm an average player. Playing 8 ball on a barbox i can usually run 5-6 balls before i miss and i can get a ball on the break 80% of the time. I see patterns and usually think 3-5 balls ahead. Mostly i just get further and further out of line with each shot till the shots get too hard.

What's your experience with instructors?

Brian :)

ABSOLUTELY LESSONS ARE WORTH IT
if you get the right instructor
its always helpful to have a trained eye evaluate your game
point out and show you how to correct mechanical (fundamental)flaws
watch you play and the patterns you pick
perhaps there are better patterns you dont see or dont know how to execute
an instructor should be able to point that out
why try to reinvent the wheelon your own when you can get help from someone trained and hopefully shorten the time to improve
my 2 cents
p.s. lessons have helped me ALOT
 
Worth it compared to what?

Is paying an instructor going to change how you or your family eats? If so, then not worth it.

Are you going to recoup the money you spend on an instructor by winning tourneys? I doubt it, unless you are almost winning or sometimes winning already.

Are you going to make the money back gambling? Maybe in the short term, but with increased skill the easier games will dry up.

Is instruction going to increase your enjoyment of the game? Doubtful...I had as much or more fun playing when I was terrible as I do now.

Are you going to improve? With a good instructor, absolutely.

dld

Many good points. One should determine what the goal is, and if it is worth the money to obtain it.

For me taking a lesson (just 1) did improve my enjoyment of the game. Being competative, losing due to incompetence is more than frustrating. It's embarrassing, and for me something had to be done about it. I was getting enough enjoyment from the game to feel the passion and not quit when it became apparent to me that I didn't know what I was doing wrong, and those things I was doing right were fleeting.

Lessons are expensive. Given where I was and what I wanted to achieve I found value in spending the money. I will also add that I was an APA3 when I took my lesson, and about a year later I was a 5. Did taking one lesson make that much difference? Yes and no. Yes in that it identified areas that needed to be addressed and gave me a focused path to improvement. No because I am too lazy to do the drills and routines recommended by the instructor with the regularity to make them effective.

:cool:
 
Taking formal lessons from a certified instructor is key. You can take lessons from even pros and get incorrect info. BTW, even certified instructors may disagree slightly about some issues...but they are unlikely to lead you wrong. The most important element is you admitting that you have a deficiency in your game...because you are going to be asked to change something in your technique. If you are not willing to accept change you will be throwing away money.

Top money will enhance your game more than paying for a top level cue...imo

DJ

"Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars." ---Casey Kasem
 
Pool lessons are the best money you will ever spend to get better. However make sure who you get them from is a credible teacher.

Look at a lesson like a shortcut.
 
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Taking formal lessons from a certified instructor is key.

Employ a certified instructor and you will get better. You will improve substantially if you practice the lesson(or lessons). Do it.
It's working for me.
 
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Lessons are expensive?

Many good points. One should determine what the goal is, and if it is worth the money to obtain it.

For me taking a lesson (just 1) did improve my enjoyment of the game. Being competative, losing due to incompetence is more than frustrating. It's embarrassing, and for me something had to be done about it. I was getting enough enjoyment from the game to feel the passion and not quit when it became apparent to me that I didn't know what I was doing wrong, and those things I was doing right were fleeting.

Lessons are expensive. Given where I was and what I wanted to achieve I found value in spending the money. I will also add that I was an APA3 when I took my lesson, and about a year later I was a 5. Did taking one lesson make that much difference? Yes and no. Yes in that it identified areas that needed to be addressed and gave me a focused path to improvement. No because I am too lazy to do the drills and routines recommended by the instructor with the regularity to make them effective.

:cool:

Expensive is a relative term. Not all instructors charge an arm and a leg. Realizing that nowadays money is tight, I offer lessons at very reasonable rates, including various discounts.

Yes, and this is the main reason that folks are not always pleased with lessons...they expect an hour lesson to make them a pro without any effort on their part. This is why I ask prospective students what their goals and expectations are and if they're willing to put in the effort.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
You do this just for yourself--
if you want to increase your skill and also *love* to work on yourself, some hours with a good instructor will help you for sure. And this will be something you will benefit for your whole pool-life.
Talk to some instructors-- and ask them questions. And then you can choose your man.
It has to fit between an instructor and a student. otherwise it s not well spent money :-)

Good Luck with your search.
lg from overseas,
ingo
 
First off you better have an open mind, as you might find out you know little pool, or shot making after you start the lesson in the instructors eyes.....:wink:

Second if you are going to spend MONEY on a LESSON, or LESSONS, be aware nothing will improve unless you Practice what you are taught. NO Practice, ZERO Improvement.

Third you will only reap from a lesson if you do as you are told, and do not question the teachers information. But the teacher has to be able to communicate with you personally, and get along with you personally. This is not Military Training where you signed up, and are stuck for the term of contract.......LOL:eek:

Fourth I personally am a BIG FAN of Instructional DVD's because IMHO any lesson lasting longer than 30 MINUTE is for me too long.

As most people can only retain small amounts of information at a TIME, so 30 MINUTES for me is as long as I want to deal with any new information. A DVD I can watch many times,stopping it & replay parts, and each time I see more of what the DVD is teaching, and is enforcing what I have previously learned.

Fifth I would not buy into paying up front for a Series of Lesson, or Multi Day Lessons as you might find out after the first lesson, or the first 30 minutes, the INSTRUCTOR is a JERK IYHO. Now you are wishing I had stay home.

We have a guy where I live that apparently went to Jerry B's Instructor Course. He know his material, but has some serious communication problems, and get frustrated with people easily.

He will say things like your are stupid, are you listening stupid, I told you not to do that are you stupid. He IMHO is too stupid to realize most people in their later years, have some physical limitations, like the Knees that don't bend, Eyes don't see well, Arms do not work like I was 20 y/o.

So what is OK to expect for a 20 year old, can not be done many times by a 60 y/o with Arthritis, Bad Knees, Bad Back, Failing Eye Sight, and some of use adapt, improvise, and over come, and still accomplish shot making.

I told him once he missed his true call, that was to be a Marine Corps DI. He need to find out a student physical limitations, and adapt his teach method. He still only know one way to TEACH. Like Everyoone has a Perfect Body, and EYE SIGHT of a Bald Eagle. His student are not Marine Recruits, and most never do a Second Lesson.:p

Spend 30 BUCKS on the Two Teach Me Pool DVD by Mark Otto (Basic & Advanced) , if you can master all that information, you will be a very good Pool Player. Like I said I like Instructional Pool DVD's.

I recall going to a FREE CLINIC at the BCAPL by a Big Named Instructor. He went on and on for 30 MINUTES about the STOP SHOT. He was already working on the stop shot when I sat down, I walked by the open door 15 minute later, he was still talking stop shop....BORING.........:mad:

Like I said above, IMHO spend 30 BUCKS on the Two Teach Me Pool DVD by Mark Otto (Basic & Advanced) , if you can master all that information, you will be a very good Pool Player. JMHO......:smile:
 
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Good input guys, Thanks!

A bit more about what i'm looking for...... I'm 50yo and my eyesight is just starting to fade but it's not a problem yet. Drills? not me. When i so out and shoot by myself i'll work on a few shots that trouble me but i get bored with that real quick so i tend to work on position play and using loads of english, another of my faults. I'm not looking to turn pro, just want to improve my odds of winning when i do shoot with others. I really enjoy the game. I started when i was 16 and played steady till i was ~40. Gave it up for awhile and 2 years ago took it up again only to find i was no where near as good as i was and i'm only improving very slowly so i thought a leaaon might be the way to go.

How much money are we talking about here?
Perhaps someone pointing out my flaws would be a big help?
Is there a good place to find lessons near me?

Thanks!!!
Brian :)
 
YES YES YES!!!!...if you have the right instructor to teach you.

I have been playing the game for close to 30yrs and it is only recently that my game jumped dramatically due to finding the RIGHT instructor. In the past, I have brought instructional videos and have had lessons with other instructors (both certified and non certified) and my game got BETTER. But,imo, finding the right instructor can make your game the BEST it can be.

My pool instructor is filipino pro Ramon Mistica. He is the only instructor endorsed by Efren Reyes and have instructed people like John Morra and Dennis Orcullo. Imo, he has the knowledge and teaching tools to make someone a pro player if they have the drive and dedication to do it.

I am always amazed everytime he teaches me as the approach/theory he shows is nothing I have even seen before. Many of them I would not even consider or think about. Everytime I tell him this he says: "those are the secrets that most of the filipino players possess that will not be shown to everyone".

Anyways, all the best to you and hope you find the right instructor.
 
I coach/instruct, and would be the first to tell that you need to find the right instructor. Doing so will save you a lot of time and money, and seeing your improvement, there's a chance you'll love the game even more. But I've seen top players instruct who weren't able to explain much of what they're doing so well themselves, nor in fact appeared to have much interest in seeing others pick up on their advice in the first place. Judge an instructor by your improvement and his/her ability to listen (= to your needs), not by how much you admire their own shooting. Having said that, being a fine player doesn't preclude some of us from being good teachers, too.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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I've taken two lessons from Scott Lee. Worth every penny and then some.

How much did you spend on a cue? How many hours per month do you spend playing pool? Let's say you spend 10 hours per month playing pool. That's 120 hours per year. Say you spend $500 on a lesson. Works out to be about $4.25 per hour for that lesson the first year. Not a hefty fee to improve your game and the enjoyment you derive from it. And 10 hours per month is fairly minimal. If you're serious about your game at all, the amortized cost per hour of the pool lesson(s) will be negligible.
 
From what I understand if you have an actual interest in getting better, then yes.

This sums it up right here. If you have a GENUINE interest in getting better, you'll put your pride issues away (many people have pride issues that are against allowing someone else "deconstruct" his or her pool-shooting style), and let an instructor show you what you're doing wrong. Just because someone can run 5-6 balls during a game doesn't mean he/she is "doing the majority of things right, and just needs a few pointers." One can get to a level of proficiency with flawed mechanics that may disguise the fact that he/she even has flawed mechanics in the first place.

I have a friend, we'll call him "Doug," that is in his 70s. He's probably been shooting pool for longer than I've been alive. He's an avid APA player, and at the time, was rated a "4" in skill level for 8-ball. Yes, that's right -- he's been playing pool for probably 50 years, and he was only a "4" (a top-flight "4", mind you, because he often wins APA Singles Boards & the Regionals, but a "4" nonetheless). Doug was very successful in playing within the APA structure, and thought that the reason why he was a "4" was because he'd been playing so long and reached the limit of his ability.

Doug played on more than just the APA leagues; he also played on a local traveling league in the Danbury, CT area that I also played in. Doug realized something was wrong, because while he did well in the APA, he didn't do so well in the local traveling league. Whenever he and I played, for example, he got smoked -- badly. And that confused him, because in the APA, Doug took pride in the fact that he was known as a "7 killer." But he didn't stand a chance against any of the 7s (like myself) in the local traveling league. (The local traveling league had the same skill level rating system as the APA -- 2 through 7 -- although the rules for 8-ball are a little different, e.g. call-shot for every shot in the local traveling league.) I got to befriending Doug through the local traveling league, and we're good friends today, in fact.

Doug sidled up to me one day, and we got talking. He dipped his cards, and revealed to me that he's a serious pool player, and would I mind giving him a few lessons. I accepted, and we began at his house one day. Doug needed to have his whole "pool shooting picture" deconstructed and rebuilt, because he was doing everything wrong -- stance, head/eye position (he thought he was right-eye dominant, when, while watching him, I immediately saw that he is actually left-eye dominant), stroke (he was a believer in the "cue must travel absolutely straight like a piston" thing, rather than let the weight of his arm naturally do the work in a pendulum), and grip (he believed all fingers must maintain contact with the cue at all times, rather than let the cue naturally "pivot" inside the grip). However, after a few hours of working with Doug, I realized I was in over my head, because I simply did not have the equipment at the time to show Doug what he was doing. I was able to correct many things, but not all of the things that were holding him back.

I referred Doug to Scott Lee. And I kept referring Doug to Scott every chance I got. Doug was resistant, because he didn't like the idea of "spending money" on pool instruction vs. purchasing books or DVDs -- he didn't understand the value he was going to get out of it. And this is understandable, because when you look at it, books and DVDs are "tangible" -- you can touch them, and convince yourself of the "long term value" you're getting out of them. But lessons? You can't touch them, and it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that lessons are like "dinner or a night out" -- you enjoy it while it's happening, but after that, <poof!>, it's gone, and you only have the memories. Or so the thinking goes (which I, personally, know is completely misguided and wrong).

Long story short, after a lot of strong-arming on my part, I finally got Doug to belly up to the bar and book a date with Scott Lee. And in keeping long story short, what resulted was nothing short of amazing. First, were the profuse apologies to me by Doug for my having to strong-arm him all that time -- the old, "gosh, was I stupid, why didn't I take your advice sooner and do that sooner?" thing. Second, was the lauding of Scott's value for the money -- Doug came away and loudly proclaimed that it was the best money he ever spent on anything pool-related. Third, was the final deliverable for him -- that he came away with style-changes, a set of marked-up videos by Scott to refer to ("before" and "after"), and a set of customized drills that put him on the road to get past the barriers that were keeping him back.

Doug is now a "6" in the APA, getting stronger and stronger every day, and he's no longer the pushover that he used to be in the local traveling league, either. He plays straight pool and rotation games now (where he didn't before), and appreciates *all* the cueing sports -- including snooker and 3-cushion billiards -- whereas previously, he looked at those as "fringe" sports. Doug even placed in the single digits -- two years in a row -- in the APA Singles Nationals in Vegas and took home a couple grand each time.

That's just one example of what personalized instruction can do. I'm sure there are other posters who can regale the OP with true accounts of the long-standing value that instruction can bring you.

Hats off to Scott Lee on this one!

-Sean
 
Good input guys, Thanks!

A bit more about what i'm looking for...... I'm 50yo and my eyesight is just starting to fade but it's not a problem yet. Drills? not me. When i so out and shoot by myself i'll work on a few shots that trouble me but i get bored with that real quick so i tend to work on position play and using loads of english, another of my faults. I'm not looking to turn pro, just want to improve my odds of winning when i do shoot with others. I really enjoy the game. I started when i was 16 and played steady till i was ~40. Gave it up for awhile and 2 years ago took it up again only to find i was no where near as good as i was and i'm only improving very slowly so i thought a leaaon might be the way to go.

How much money are we talking about here?
Perhaps someone pointing out my flaws would be a big help?
Is there a good place to find lessons near me?

Thanks!!!
Brian :)

not sure lessons will help you
doesnt sound like you are willing to change anything or work at it
sorry
jmho
icbw
i am not an instructor
 
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Good input guys, Thanks!

A bit more about what i'm looking for...... I'm 50yo and my eyesight is just starting to fade but it's not a problem yet. Drills? not me.

How do you define drills? When you miss a shot, what do you do? If you don't stop and shoot the shot again, you're doing nothing more than adding a miss (negative recording) to your memory bank. One needs to bury that miss with a few (few dozen?) made shots. So is a "drill" shooting a shot a few times, or many times? Drills also develop your stroke, your focus and much more, if done correctly.

When i so out and shoot by myself i'll work on a few shots that trouble me but i get bored with that real quick so i tend to work on position play and using loads of english, another of my faults. I'm not looking to turn pro, just want to improve my odds of winning when i do shoot with others. I really enjoy the game. I started when i was 16 and played steady till i was ~40. Gave it up for awhile and 2 years ago took it up again only to find i was no where near as good as i was and i'm only improving very slowly so i thought a leaaon might be the way to go.

How much money are we talking about here?

Professional lessons range from $20 to $200 an hour.

Perhaps someone pointing out my flaws would be a big help?

No perhaps about it! Can you see what your grip hand is doing when you stroke? An instructor will see many things that you don't see and things that you aren't aware of that can affect your game.

Is there a good place to find lessons near me?

Use the Internet to find instructors near you. There are many fine BCA and ACS Instructors out there!

Thanks!!!
Brian :)

Self-teaching is a very slow process. Take advantage of teachers who have learned from all those who came before us: players, teachers, books, etc.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
I've long forgotten the money I spent on my 7, or so, lessons...


...but I haven't forgotten the knowledge learned.


Jeff Livingston
 
Yes worth every cent if, and only if you have the time and desire to follow through with it by putting in the work on the table. If you do not, then save your money and bang away. There's no magic bullet.

Find an instructor who will teach you how to self evaluate in the future. This is so key. You should leave your instruction not only knowing what you want to do different but how to know what you're looking at when you review yourself on video. Get taught to fish, not fed a fish dinner.

JC
 
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