Is there a EUREKA moment?

bobforest

bobforest

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi all - and apologies for the noob question, but...

Following on from the interesting discussion of whether or not it is possible to achieve pro speed in 2 years... Did anyone find a moment when their game suddenly improved in a huge jump? Or is it a case of millions of tiny incremental improvements over a long period of time?

Some background (skip this if you want) I have been playing for about 20 years but (like many noobs on here) I've recently started taking it more seriously. I don't own a table and I know I don't put in enough practice time to achieve anything spectacular. I'd like to think I'm 'average' i.e. I can often grind out a win against a good player but rarely break and run (8ball).

I have read a lot of books and watched instructional DVD's and generally feel that I have a good understanding of the game but I often feel that I have 'information overload', I know that I have a lot of weaknesses and so I'm trying to focus on too many aspects of my game during my shots... therefore I'm consistently inconsistent :smile:

So... from your experience... was there a moment when everything 'clicked' into place and there was a really noticeable improvement? is it it just wishful thinking?

Cheers

Bob
 
No eureka moment, but once I realized that pros are human too, they became much easier to beat mentally.
 
Pretty close to a eureka moment would be when you master the straight in stop shot.

Set the cue in the center of the table and the ob straight in half way in between the cue and the pocket. Shoot the shot over and over until you can execute this shot and stop the cue on a dime 90% of the time. That means 0 movement front or back or especially side to side.

Examine your fundamentals and make corrections as needed during this practice. Perfecting this shot will mean your fundamentals are sound. Once you have the easy shot down the try lengthening the distance and varying the angle of the straight in shot to the pocket.
 
A developing game typically goes through a number of plateaus as you get better. Each rise represents you figuring out something that is holding your game back. Each flat line is when you haven't figured out what is holding your game back.

But until you can run at least on rack per week, just work on fundamentals.
 
As said before, the stop shot is the most important shot to learn. But the real Eureka moment is when you can grasp that when you approach a cut shot, if you can imagine the speed and low aim on the cue ball that it would take to hit a stop shot, then hit it just like that except aiming for the cut, then the cue ball will travel on the tangent line or at a 90 degree angle.

Then you must realize that if you shoot with draw or follow then the tangent line will change according to your shape needs.

Then after that you must realize how to achieve the tangent line using more speed and less of a low aim on the cue ball to make the cue ball travel further along the tangent line.

I guess that would be a few Eureka moments but once you have an understanding of this, You will improve dramatically at getting shape.
 
Luxury said:
As said before, the stop shot is the most important shot to learn. But the real Eureka moment is when you can grasp that when you approach a cut shot, if you can imagine the speed and low aim on the cue ball that it would take to hit a stop shot, then hit it just like that except aiming for the cut, then the cue ball will travel on the tangent line or at a 90 degree angle.

Then you must realize that if you shoot with draw or follow then the tangent line will change according to your shape needs.

Then after that you must realize how to achieve the tangent line using more speed and less of a low aim on the cue ball to make the cue ball travel further along the tangent line.

I guess that would be a few Eureka moments but once you have an understanding of this, You will improve dramatically at getting shape.
Click to expand...

To be clear, the greatest benefits of the drill in my post are:

1) Learning how to strike the cue ball with precision
2) Learning how to aim with precision
3) Developing a stroke that will work for you
 
(((Satori))) said:
To be clear, the greatest benefits of the drill in my post are:

1) Learning how to strike the cue ball with precision
2) Learning how to aim with precision
3) Developing a stroke that will work for you
Click to expand...

To be clear, I wasn't referring to your post when I said that it has been said before that the stop shot is the most important shot in pool. You never said that it was. I was referring to the 100's of times I've heard that said in books, instructors and many posters on this site.
 
bobforest said:
Hi all - and apologies for the noob question, but...

Following on from the interesting discussion of whether or not it is possible to achieve pro speed in 2 years... Did anyone find a moment when their game suddenly improved in a huge jump? Or is it a case of millions of tiny incremental improvements over a long period of time?

Some background (skip this if you want) I have been playing for about 20 years but (like many noobs on here) I've recently started taking it more seriously. I don't own a table and I know I don't put in enough practice time to achieve anything spectacular. I'd like to think I'm 'average' i.e. I can often grind out a win against a good player but rarely break and run (8ball).

I have read a lot of books and watched instructional DVD's and generally feel that I have a good understanding of the game but I often feel that I have 'information overload', I know that I have a lot of weaknesses and so I'm trying to focus on too many aspects of my game during my shots... therefore I'm consistently inconsistent :smile:

So... from your experience... was there a moment when everything 'clicked' into place and there was a really noticeable improvement? is it it just wishful thinking?

Cheers

Bob
Click to expand...

Yes. I have had that several times in my life on the pool table. Times where I suddenly understood on a deeper level how to move the balls and what they would do.

I don't think that there comes a time where you will understand everything but for me it's been something with each aspect of the game.
 
Luxury - thanks for taking the time to respond, can you clarify this.....?

"Then you must realize that if you shoot with draw or follow then the tangent line will change according to your shape needs."

I thought the tangent line was 'set in stone' and the cue ball will always follow it after contact... but deviate away from it eventually on an arc depending on spin and power

Am I wrong? - It might explain why I don't always get the desired shape.

Thanks again for responding

Appreciate all thoughts

Cheers

Bob
 
bobforest said:
Luxury - thanks for taking the time to respond, can you clarify this.....?

"Then you must realize that if you shoot with draw or follow then the tangent line will change according to your shape needs."

I thought the tangent line was 'set in stone' and the cue ball will always follow it after contact... but deviate away from it eventually on an arc depending on spin and power

Am I wrong? - It might explain why I don't always get the desired shape.

Thanks again for responding

Appreciate all thoughts

Cheers

Bob
Click to expand...

I'm better at explaining in person than in a post. The cue ball will always follow the tangent line even if it is only for a very short distance before the forward roll or backspin kicks in.

The harder you hit the cue ball the further it travels along the tangent line before the the forward roll or back spin kicks in.
 
Luxury said:
I'm better at explaining in person than in a post. The cue ball will always follow the tangent line even if it is only for a very short distance before the forward roll or backspin kicks in.

The harder you hit the cue ball the further it travels along the tangent line before the the forward roll or back spin kicks in.
Click to expand...

Thanks - seems to confirm that my ideas are correct - just poorly executed.

I suspect that I'm not contacting the cue ball accurately... I noticed that when I lag for the break in tournaments, and I'm focused on speed rather than accuracy, that the cue ball often drifts towards the near corner pocket after contact with the far cushion... As people have stated, i need more work on basic fundamentals... if only i was 18 again with time on my hands...

Cheers

Bob
 
If this is your situation then Satori's Eureka moment should be your top priority. Make sure your bridge isn't too long. On a lag you should be aiming just above center cue ball on the vertical axis. look back and forth at where you are aiming and back to the cue ball as a general rule to make sure your cue tip is going to aim where it needs to strike the cue ball.
 
"I thought the tangent line was 'set in stone' and the cue ball will always follow it after contact... but deviate away from it eventually on an arc depending on spin and power

Am I wrong? - It might explain why I don't always get the desired shape."




Remember, the angle of the cut shot is also a factor in how far the cue will follow the tangent line before spinning off of it & the cut angle also determines how farthe cue ball can deviate away.

The greater the cut angle the more distance it will follow the tangent line and the less it can deviate off of it.
 
(((Satori))) said:
"I thought the tangent line was 'set in stone' and the cue ball will always follow it after contact... but deviate away from it eventually on an arc depending on spin and power

Am I wrong? - It might explain why I don't always get the desired shape."




Remember, the angle of the cut shot is also a factor in how far the cue will follow the tangent line before spinning off of it & the cut angle also determines how farthe cue ball can deviate away.

The greater the cut angle the more distance it will follow the tangent line and the less it can deviate off of it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. In fact certain angles will make any deviation from the tangent line not even apparent at all.
 
bobforest said:
So... from your experience... was there a moment when everything 'clicked' into place and there was a really noticeable improvement? is it it just wishful thinking?

Cheers

Bob
Click to expand...

I'd say that there are lot's of them. Not one will make you a great player but one every once in a while will keep you on the path to great improvement and satisfy your love of the game. YMMV
 
i guess "my eureka moment' was learning less is more. players often disregard "the kiss method" keep it simple stupid!, but in my game it allowed for fewer mistakes which translates into more runouts, better consistency, and provided the basis for "higher gears" in my overall game. during the progression of my game, the "stun shot" in its various forms allowed for my game to reach new levels. hope this helps.
 
I think the Eureka moment isn't something that happens to you exactly, like you see and suddenly understand... it's something you make happen.

Like one day you say "I'm sick of missing simple one rail kicks" and then you systematically practice them until you have a method that works for you.

Or after about the 10,000th time you shoot a shot that can't pass another ball into the pocket, you say to yourself "from now on I'm going to check... and if it doesn't go, it doesn't go. I'll shoot a different shot."

I had a few lightbulb moments over the years, they were small jumps though, there's nothing that will double your skill overnight sadly.
 
Defense...

bobforest said:
Hi all - and apologies for the noob question, but...

Following on from the interesting discussion of whether or not it is possible to achieve pro speed in 2 years... Did anyone find a moment when their game suddenly improved in a huge jump? Or is it a case of millions of tiny incremental improvements over a long period of time?

Some background (skip this if you want) I have been playing for about 20 years but (like many noobs on here) I've recently started taking it more seriously. I don't own a table and I know I don't put in enough practice time to achieve anything spectacular. I'd like to think I'm 'average' i.e. I can often grind out a win against a good player but rarely break and run (8ball).

I have read a lot of books and watched instructional DVD's and generally feel that I have a good understanding of the game but I often feel that I have 'information overload', I know that I have a lot of weaknesses and so I'm trying to focus on too many aspects of my game during my shots... therefore I'm consistently inconsistent :smile:

So... from your experience... was there a moment when everything 'clicked' into place and there was a really noticeable improvement? is it it just wishful thinking?

Cheers

Bob
Click to expand...

For me it was about fifty years ago when I came to realize that playing defense is not "dirty pool"...and I began making money playing pool.

Another was when I came to understand what a guy named "Willy" told me in 1965..."you spin the ball when you don't need to".
 
Its a long, long way to the top. Many of us set standards so high, the top seems unreachable. I can remember watching run out players and being very intimidated, feeling like I had little or no skill as compared to them. Playing at that level or anywhere near it, seemed impossible at the time.

For that reason I have always set smaller, more attainable goals. Reaching enough of these goals over the years builds confidence. You hit highs and lows, like anybody else. If you're lucky enough, the lows teach you as much as the highs do. There will be plenty of ah-ha moments, but they will all need each other.
 
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