Is there a safety here?

[Kickin' Chicken]

count me in the camp who would bank the 8b.

Any APA SL4+ and above should be a favorite to make this bank, especially with the benefit of discussing how to hit it on a time out, if needed.

As was mentioned in this thread, after the safety attempt, there could be a few ways for the incoming player to send whitey up table or one that wasn't mentioned that if the player attempting the safety either underhits or overhits the shot, the incoming player could poss feather the 11 and softly go into the 8 moving it to the footrail.

It always comes down to percentages and to me the bank offers a much higher success rate than trying to duck.

best,
brian kc

 

[jrctherake]

Damn, if we got a lot of cheese on the wire, you would be crazy to go offensive.

If a person can't get a nut-up safe from there, they got lots of problems.

Yes, the bank is not very hard but, the safe is even easier.

That safe, I'll stick it every time. The bank, well....I may miss it ever so often.

Amateurs be amateurs = low percentage decisions = defeat

Jeff

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

The stronger the player the more often they will play the safe.

I can understand weaker players going for it because it's harder to play safe than it is to go for everything and sell out.

I can see that not many here play 14.1 or 1hole very strong.....either that or they are just playing possum so people will think they are weak players.

Anyone that don't agree......if you live close enough....come to my house and I would LOVE to play some...

Florence, Alabama

Jeff

I LOVE the chest-beating if you don't agree come play me some mentality.

With respect, I'm gonna tell you that some of the "stronger players" I know coming to the table after that safety is played will have a good chance to take a coat of paint off the 11 and send whitey 2 or 3 rails with 3 balls to find cover behind. Or as someone else mentioned, if whitey and the 11 are frozen the incoming shooter may be permitted to shoot through the 11 and follow up table for cover.

I'll maintain the bank is higher % play for most.

best,
brian kc <---=---obv a weaker player

 

[jrctherake]

I LOVE the chest-beating if you don't agree come play me some mentality.

With respect, I'm gonna tell you that some of the "stronger players" I know coming to the table after that safety is played will have a good chance to take a coat of paint off the 11 and send whitey 2 or 3 rails with 3 balls to find cover behind. Or as someone else mentioned, if whitey and the 11 are frozen the incoming shooter may be permitted to shoot through the 11 and follow up table for cover.

I'll maintain the bank is higher % play for most.

best,
brian kc <---=---obv a weaker player

Chest beating? Lol...nope, but I wouldn't turn down a lock either.

Seriously, for ME....I win either way in that situation. Some people play stronger safes than others.

I im not scared of a kick just in case my opponent did get out of jail but....in that particular situation they're not getting out of jail....period.

Look, it's like icecream, some like this....some like that....

As far as a game....I'm an APA 2.3 struggling to make it to a solid 3. I'm almost there....

Lol

Jeff

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Is the bank the ONLY shot? or is there a safety?
...

To answer this question, there is a safety. It is an easy safety unless you have no control at the low end of the speed range. But I can imagine the following scenarios for the attempted safe even with about the right speed:

1. you double-kiss the 8 into the pocket and lose (heavy cue ball)

2. You freeze to the 11 and it's straight in to the side. Opponent shoots it in and runs out.

3. Frozen but towards nothing. Opp. plays a RAM shot, makes two balls and runs out.

4. Not frozen, but opp. plays a RAM shot anyway and makes a ball. Rules/fouls/cheating earnest discussion ensues and the match never finishes.:smile:

The bank has none of those problems, but I think on some tables (with "quick" rails) the bank isn't on because of the kiss.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Chest beating? Lol...nope, but I wouldn't turn down a lock either.

Seriously, for ME....I win either way in that situation. Some people play stronger safes than others.

I im not scared of a kick just in case my opponent did get out of jail but....in that particular situation they're not getting out of jail....period.

Look, it's like icecream, some like this....some like that....

As far as a game....I'm an APA 2.3 struggling to make it to a solid 3. I'm almost there....

Lol

Jeff

Again, with respect (and I mean that), can you show on the table diagram how you shoot the safety where the incoming player is "not getting out of jail. I'm curious about how the 8, 11 and cue ball all end up - how there could be such precision to be certain there's no escape up table.

best,
brian kc

 

[pt109]

Damn, if we got a lot of cheese on the wire, you would be crazy to go offensive.

If a person can't get a nut-up safe from there, they got lots of problems.

Yes, the bank is not very hard but, the safe is even easier.

That safe, I'll stick it every time. The bank, well....I may miss it ever so often.

Amateurs be amateurs = low percentage decisions = defeat

Jeff

You must’ve heard the old 8-ball adage...
...never run seven balls.

If you got a shot at the 8-ball, take it.

If your opponent is so weak that you feel you can out-trick him....
...then it probably doesn’t matter how you play him....you’ll win anyways.

 

[jrctherake]

To answer this question, there is a safety. It is an easy safety unless you have no control at the low end of the speed range. But I can imagine the following scenarios for the attempted safe even with about the right speed:

1. you double-kiss the 8 into the pocket and lose (heavy cue ball)

2. You freeze to the 11 and it's straight in to the side. Opponent shoots it in and runs out.

3. Frozen but towards nothing. Opp. plays a RAM shot, makes two balls and runs out.

4. Not frozen, but opp. plays a RAM shot anyway and makes a ball. Rules/fouls/cheating earnest discussion ensues and the match never finishes.:smile:

The bank has none of those problems, but I think on some tables (with "quick" rails) the bank isn't on because of the kiss.

Ok....now I understand the "no safe" comments.

I play call shot.....in EVERYTHING but 9 ball.

So, if we are in that position and I put you nut-up to 11 ball .....you will have to call the ball and pocket...otherwise you give table up or attempt a safe.

I refuse to play slop counts in any game but 9 ball.

BTW, I'm not a fan of call shot/call safe.....but I love call shot.

Only reason I don't like call shot/safe is the two-way is lost at that point.

Jeff

 

[jrctherake]

Again, with respect (and I mean that), can you show on the table diagram how you shoot the safety where the incoming player is "not getting out of jail. I'm curious about how the 8, 11 and cue ball all end up - how there could be such precision to be certain there's no escape up table.

best,
brian kc

I went to the table and shot it several times and was able to freeze the cb to 11 ball all but a few times.

Even the few that didn't freeze was all but impossible to get out of.

BTW, I play call shot....so.....ram a ball and slop it in doesn't get there with me. I refuse to play slop counts in any game but 9 ball.

If we let ram shots count...heck, we may as well not count fouls.

^^^^^^^^^ another reason I despise league play.

Jeff

 

[jrctherake]

You must’ve heard the old 8-ball adage...
...never run seven balls.

If you got a shot at the 8-ball, take it.

If your opponent is so weak that you feel you can out-trick him....
...then it probably doesn’t matter how you play him....you’ll win anyways.

If I'm playing someone in the fargo rating of 690ish and up....I nut em up.

If I'm playing someone in the fargo rating of 400ish ....I nut em up.

I guess I like to play safe.

Don't know about the others here, but the guys I play with will stick it in your ear if you sell out.....then turn around and run 3, 4 or 5 racks before you get back to table.

So yeah...I play the safe.

Jeff

 

[jasonlaus]

Guaranteed that if you leave the 8/11 there, an even moderately competent opponent is putting you up table and on the same side as the 8/11...and now you are kicking at the 8.

Guaranteed ^^^^^^^

 

[forabeer]

Don't know about the others here, but the guys I play with will stick it in your ear if you sell out.....then turn around and run 3, 4 or 5 racks before you get back to table.

Sounds like the guys you play are excellent offensive players.
I bet they would all bank the 8.

 

[KRJ]

I LOVE the chest-beating if you don't agree come play me some mentality.

With respect, I'm gonna tell you that some of the "stronger players" I know coming to the table after that safety is played will have a good chance to take a coat of paint off the 11 and send whitey 2 or 3 rails with 3 balls to find cover behind. Or as someone else mentioned, if whitey and the 11 are frozen the incoming shooter may be permitted to shoot through the 11 and follow up table for cover.

I'll maintain the bank is higher % play for most.

best,
brian kc <---=---obv a weaker player

Except the incoming player was an APA 6. So, there is that

 

[jasonlaus]

If I had a nickel for every time I told someone to play safe but they said no and fired away and wound up losing the game, I'd have a lot of nickels

Very low chance they are going to hook you after that safety, but even so, if it happened, I get a nice kick shot with the 8 ball sitting like a duck out in front of the pocket. Probably easier kick than the bank would be lol

Either way, the other shooter is back in his seat if he lucks out and we are back in the same position as before, but I got a big ole 8 ball just sitting there for me But, probably had 85% chance he was not going to hook me and the 8ball would be straight in shot for the win.

Not even close.

Most likely he kicks long, hits the bottom rail and caroms off the bottom of the 8 right into the corner pocket. Then I get the joy of hearing him say he "shoulda banked it when he had the chance"

This is IF he didnt leave me a shot on any balls and I had to play a safe behind that big wall on the other end.

And since some of you cant play pro speed banks, but for whatever reason you play pro speed safes

Remember, it is a 5 shooting

 

[jasonlaus]

I went to the table and shot it several times and was able to freeze the cb to 11 ball all but a few times.

Even the few that didn't freeze was all but impossible to get out of.

BTW, I play call shot....so.....ram a ball and slop it in doesn't get there with me. I refuse to play slop counts in any game but 9 ball.

If we let ram shots count...heck, we may as well not count fouls.

^^^^^^^^^ another reason I despise league play.

Jeff

The guy is a APA 5, not a guy that shoots open speed.

 

[jasonlaus]

I went to the table and shot it several times and was able to freeze the cb to 11 ball all but a few times.

Even the few that didn't freeze was all but impossible to get out of.

BTW, I play call shot....so.....ram a ball and slop it in doesn't get there with me. I refuse to play slop counts in any game but 9 ball.

If we let ram shots count...heck, we may as well not count fouls.

^^^^^^^^^ another reason I despise league play.

Jeff

With NO pressure and without your team watching, and the other pesky thing getting in the way - HE'S A 5!!!!!

 

[jrctherake]

Sounds like the guys you play are excellent offensive players.
I bet they would all bank the 8.

I mostly play solo and have a couple friends that are ballpark 625ish speed. Those people, I'm not as worried about.....

But.....ever so often I play with guys that are 690ish all the way up to 740ish and those fellows can and WILL put a pack on my a55 if I don't play very SMART. This group of players will torch me if I don't have a very good saftey game.

Sure, I'm capable of putting packs together but, it does me absolutely no good to put a 3 pack together and then sell out only to have a 4 or 5 pack returned.

Only time I play fish is when I'm playing myself...

Jeff

 

[jrctherake]

The guy is a APA 5, not a guy that shoots open speed.

Good point. I understand.

When ONLINE I sometimes forget that we aren't always on the same level or at least close.

I have a bad habit of doing that.

I wouldn't strongly advise an APA 5 to play safe on that shot.

Eventhough, IMO..just like the bank....people are making the safe out to be way harder than it actually is.

Jeff

 

[jrctherake]

With NO pressure and without your team watching, and the other pesky thing getting in the way - HE'S A 5!!!!!

I don't play league but I do wager a little here and there, so I'm no stranger to pressure.

The money never put pressure on me. My pressure usually came from people watching. It took me a while to overcome that.

I can understand where an APA 5 may get shook. Hell, none of us are unshakable. Even the elite get shook at times. Myself, I choke more than I should when under a really big gun.

Jeff

 

[DelawareDogs]

I think the safety you described is there.

If you were so bold and feeling good about your table speed, laying the cue nearly in the pocket behind the 8 looks pretty sporty. Doesn't get the 8 out.

The bank WHILE playing the safe works also.