is there benefit to increasing table difficulty factor on my home table?

C

CanadianGuy

Well-known member
I have a three year old Canada Billiard Black Crown 2 nine footer that measures pretty low on Dr Dave's TDF scale and have played below my home standard (around 600 fargo) out at tourneys recently on tougher Diamonds and Rassons, mostly specific to the tighter pockets

I'm guessing at this time I can have the rails switched for tighter pockets/play (Canada Billiards offers two pocket cuts when buying the table new and I chose the easier cut)

Another option is to just replace the table entirely

I'm working to get to 700 fargo and now consider myself a serious amateur/recreational player

Any feedback here would be much appreciated
 
CanadianGuy said:
I have a three year old Canada Billiard Black Crown 2 nine footer that measures pretty low on Dr Dave's TDF scale and have played below my home standard (around 600 fargo) out at tourneys recently on tougher Diamonds and Rassons, mostly specific to the tighter pockets

I'm guessing at this time I can have the rails switched for tighter pockets/play (Canada Billiards offers two pocket cuts when buying the table new and I chose the easier cut)

Another option is to just replace the table entirely

I'm working to get to 700 fargo and now consider myself a serious amateur/recreational player

Any feedback here would be much appreciated
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Classic Billiards sell thick facings that will make corners about 4.5" Easy to do and much cheaper than new rails or a subrail mod. https://www.classicbilliards.net/cu...urometer-hardness-die-cut-cushion-facing.html
 
garczar said:
Classic Billiards sell thick facings that will make corners about 4.5" Easy to do and much cheaper than new rails or a subrail mod. https://www.classicbilliards.net/cu...urometer-hardness-die-cut-cushion-facing.html
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For next time it gets recovered, of course.

To me, the biggest improvement came from comfort with the environment/ format, not pocketing. Imo, a 700+ Fargo is supposed to play races to 7 or so with no mistakes a couple times a day and that takes a lot of fuckus and execution.

Being a better pocketer definitely makes you better and if you are facing tougher equipment out and about, that would sure impact comfort.

Tighten it up!
 
good point on the 'comfort' factor, certainly feeling less comfortable on the tighter tables and also shots down the rail have been killing me
 
CanadianGuy said:
I have a three year old Canada Billiard Black Crown 2 nine footer that measures pretty low on Dr Dave's TDF scale and have played below my home standard (around 600 fargo) out at tourneys recently on tougher Diamonds and Rassons, mostly specific to the tighter pockets

I'm guessing at this time I can have the rails switched for tighter pockets/play (Canada Billiards offers two pocket cuts when buying the table new and I chose the easier cut)

Another option is to just replace the table entirely

I'm working to get to 700 fargo and now consider myself a serious amateur/recreational player

Any feedback here would be much appreciated
Click to expand...
It's a great table. I wouldn't get rid of it. I play on the same table with 4 1/2 inch pockets regularly. It plays great. A good table mechanic can tighten those pockets up for you.
 
This is what I built my 8 foot Fisher restoration to, for my practice table.
20240209_074802.jpg
It plays tight but fair. A deeper shelf might be addressed if or when I redo the rails. 🤷‍♂️
 
iusedtoberich said:
Imo, tightening up your practice table will not make you a better player.
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I disagree. If the equipment he practices on isn‘t as tight as what he competes on, he will most likely struggle in competition. if he were to put time in on equipment that is just as tight or tighter than what he competes on, he will improve in competition because he will gain comfort and an understanding of what will drop and what won’t drop on tighter equipment.
 
I like to practice tighter tables. Time before we got our private club i had my usual table 4 inch pockets. It was too tight table to be honest. It was frustrating table to play sometimes but i got a lot of improvement from it. I got rid of habit cheating pocket for position. You could not do that. So i needed to play better position while shooting all middle of pocket..
 
rexus31 said:
I disagree. If the equipment he practices on isn‘t as tight as what he competes on, he will most likely struggle in competition. if he were to put time in on equipment that is just as tight or tighter than what he competes on, he will improve in competition because he will gain comfort and an understanding of what will drop and what won’t drop on tighter equipment.
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While that makes sense, there's also something to be said about building confidence. Playing on a looser table builds confidence. If I'm really confident, I can adjust to tighter pockets. If I'm not confident, I'm not going to play my best game no matter what the pocket size is.

My home table is really tight. When I go somewhere else to play, it takes me a few sets to gain my confidence / swager. I be like "hey, I forgot how good I play!".

I'm not saying stay with the bigger pockets and it will help you, but there are some benefits. I'm actually thinking of switching to bigger pockets on my table.
 
fjk said:
While that makes sense, there's also something to be said about building confidence. Playing on a looser table builds confidence. If I'm really confident, I can adjust to tighter pockets. If I'm not confident, I'm not going to play my best game no matter what the pocket size is.

My home table is really tight. When I go somewhere else to play, it takes me a few sets to gain my confidence / swager. I be like "hey, I forgot how good I play!".

I'm not saying stay with the bigger pockets and it will help you, but there are some benefits. I'm actually thinking of switching to bigger pockets on my table.
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True to a point until you get down on a shot and see a much smaller pocket than you are used to. It can cause all sorts of mental anguish.
 
Poolmanis said:
I like to practice tighter tables. Time before we got our private club i had my usual table 4 inch pockets. It was too tight table to be honest. It was frustrating table to play sometimes but i got a lot of improvement from it. I got rid of habit cheating pocket for position. You could not do that. So i needed to play better position while shooting all middle of pocket..
Click to expand...
We can't all do that.

Stop making us look bad!!!!
Lolol
 
iusedtoberich said:
Imo, tightening up your practice table will not make you a better player.
Click to expand...
But it can help with not becoming a worser player when you compete?

All a matter of how one defines 'better:
Greatest level of proficiency, irrespective of scene?
Greatest level of proficiency when competing.

I declare the latter is what matter.
 
Apologies for bouncing you to another thread but I just posted some food for thought in Biloxi Boy's thread that I think fits your question well. You might take a look there where I discuss what happened practicing a lot on a snooker table.

Hu

Measurable Improvement from Equipment Change

Have any studies been done to quantify the amount of improvement that can be attributed to a player using different equipment? Not talking about Meucci's Machine, etc., but studies of actual players. I realize that there are many variables affecting such, just interested in whether anyone has...
forums.azbilliards.com
 
I just watched a bunch of matches on the streamed table and I believe they said 4.25 pockets. It was the Massachusetts State tourney and the top 2 players were 744 and 741 FR. The other matches on that table were all 640-690 range. There were more missed balls and not a single BNR. All the 600+ FR rated players looked like beginners on that table and underperformed big time. The top two Shawn Wilky and Lucas F Verner missed some easy shots with Shawn winning the match. IMO the smaller pockets require a good stroke and ball speed.
 
CanadianGuy said:
I have a three year old Canada Billiard Black Crown 2 nine footer that measures pretty low on Dr Dave's TDF scale and have played below my home standard (around 600 fargo) out at tourneys recently on tougher Diamonds and Rassons, mostly specific to the tighter pockets

I'm guessing at this time I can have the rails switched for tighter pockets/play (Canada Billiards offers two pocket cuts when buying the table new and I chose the easier cut)

Another option is to just replace the table entirely

I'm working to get to 700 fargo and now consider myself a serious amateur/recreational player

Any feedback here would be much appreciated
Click to expand...
I think it's kind of a no brainer that it's best to practice on equipment that is at least as tough as what you go out and compete on.

I have the classic billiards 3/8 inch facings on a GC4. They aren't bad but if I could buy a set of rails that have extended sub rails or had a qualified mechanic in my area I'd go that route. The 3/8 inch facings play kind of easy, so much so that when I'm practicing, if I hit a facing and it rattles and goes in I consider it a shot that would have missed when I'm out.

I'd just do it right now if you have the funds and the equipment's available.
 
Interesting question. I think it will take the same amount of effort to reach 700 fargo regardless of the pocket size. Reducing the pocket size isn't a short cut to improvement by any means. The table will be harder so you won't get as good of results but that doesn't necessarily lead to improvement.

Tighter pockets could force you to bear down more and tighten up your shot accuracy which would lead to improvement over time. But it could just as easily make you extra frustrated with your results and make you less motivated to practice. I think you can see just as much improvement by using your current table and focusing extra hard on hitting center pocket. If you miss center pocket, don't be satisfied with the result and adjust on the next shot.

Does anyone else ever play on your table? Non-pool player friends, family, kids, etc? With tight pockets, pool won't be much fun for them.
 
FWIW, I also have a Black Crown 2 with the tighter pocket option, BUT, I don't find it super tight.

It is supposed to be 4.5 at the corners, but it is more like 4.55 or so. No, I wouldn't upgrade your table through Canada Billiard. Shim it next re-cloth.

Would I want it tighter? No. When I miss on the table it is because I hit it wrong or made a bad positional shot not because it is tight.

A table needs to be tight even to force you to pay attention to how/where in the pocket you are aiming the ball. I find that when I play on really loose equipment, that I start to get lazy and cheat/not aim precisely at the pockets.
 
Although not a BC2 my table is(was?) also produced by Canada Billiards.

I shrank my pockets from something near >4.75 down to a finished value of 4.25. I wouldn't go any smaller and probably wouldn't bother having anything larger.

However, food for thought. Although my openings of my pockets mimic the usual "tight" table. It plays a little loose compared to something like a diamond. What most don't tell you is that by decreasing your pocket opening, you also shorten the pocket shelf. The shots that will hang on a diamond will drop on your BC2. I think it safe to assume our slates will be of similar dimension.

I'm not sure what can be done by the run of the mill table mechanic, but the loss of shelf depth will always make your pockets play looser than what the +700's typically play on. I suffer with this when I travel for events.

Personally if I were you. I'd shrink them to 4.25". Keep the facing angles at 142. Mine are 141 and and take balls a bit easier than I would like
 
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