Is This a Gold Crown???

CamposCues said:
This table doesn't have any name plate or markings indicating what kind of table it is. I think it came from some place called Gentleman Jim's in MN...I think. Is it a GC?

http://members.cox.net/ccampos11/Pool_Table/pool pics 020.jpg
http://members.cox.net/ccampos11/Pool_Table/pool pics 021.jpg
http://members.cox.net/ccampos11/Pool_Table/pool pics 022.jpg
http://members.cox.net/ccampos11/Pool_Table/pool pics 023.jpg
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Everything about it, the legs, the ball returns, the underframe, even the ball box looks unmistakedly like a Gold Crown. Even the imitators (by Imperial and Taiwan) didn't look that good. See if the slate has a wood framework attached to it. Also there may be markings underneath on the frame.
 
Table

jay helfert said:
Everything about it, the legs, the ball returns, the underframe, even the ball box looks unmistakedly like a Gold Crown. Even the imitators (by Imperial and Taiwan) didn't look that good. See if the slate has a wood framework attached to it. Also there may be markings underneath on the frame.
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Yeah, I don't have that keen of an eye which is why I asked. The guys said it was refinished about 10 years ago and doesn't have any markings saying Brunswick or anything else. I haven't gotten go see it in person. He wants $1000 for it which is probably a good deal on a GC but I just didn't want to take a road trip and find out it was a immitation that probably didn't cost a $1000 new.
 
CamposCues said:
This table doesn't have any name plate or markings indicating what kind of table it is. I think it came from some place called Gentleman Jim's in MN...I think. Is it a GC?

http://members.cox.net/ccampos11/Pool_Table/pool pics 020.jpg
http://members.cox.net/ccampos11/Pool_Table/pool pics 021.jpg
http://members.cox.net/ccampos11/Pool_Table/pool pics 022.jpg
http://members.cox.net/ccampos11/Pool_Table/pool pics 023.jpg
Click to expand...
The ball box area doesn't look at all like a GC. A GC skirt in the box area is not one piece as that one is. The box opening on that table is also almost twice the size of a GC. The score keepers on a GC are about 1 1/2 inches from the outside diamonds, not centered. Those are centered between the diamonds. I don't think there is an chance it is a GC. Although I am comparing it to my table I am looking at, here is a picture of a GC to compare.
http://www.stripersonline.com/ubb547/image_uploads4/pooltable32.jpg
 
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Hmm

macguy said:
The ball box area doesn't look at all like a GC. A GC skirt in the box area is not one piece as that one is. The box opening on that table is also almost twice the size of a GC. The score keepers on a GC are about 1 1/2 inches from the outside diamonds, not centered. Those are centered between the diamonds. I don't think there is an chance it is a GC. Although I am comparing it to my table I am looking at, here is a picture of a GC to compare.
http://www.stripersonline.com/ubb547...ooltable32.jpg
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Yeah, it for sure isn't like that one. The ball box is taller for sure. Is that GC in the pic a I, II, III?
 
CamposCues said:
Yeah, it for sure isn't like that one. The ball box is taller for sure. Is that GC in the pic a I, II, III?
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I have no idea, mine is a 2 and it looks like the one in the picture. I just googled the words gold crown pool table and selected images. Thats where I got the picture. I also found tables that were not GC's at dealers sites that look a lot like GC's. They were not pretending they were they, are just tables for sale.

One thing though. The table may not have originally had a ball return and the skirt was cut out and the box could have been built and added, that would not explain the score keepers though. A first hand look at the table I think it would be easy to tell if it is a GC or not but I tend to think it is not since I found so many look-a-likes, they are no rare.
 
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Before my local room got all new GC4's, they had a mix of 1's 2's and 3's. As I recall, the ball return and ball storage area looked very similar on all 3 models. They looked nothing like the design in the CamposCues pictures, and looked exactly like the table in Macguy's picture.

If you notice on the lower shelf of the ball storage, there is no divider on the CamposCues pictures. All the GC's definetly had a divider, so you could play 1-pocket.

That entire ball return/storage area is just all wrong. No way its a GC.
 
macguy said:
One thing though. The table may not have originally had a ball return and the skirt was cut out and the box could have been built and added, that would not explain the score keepers though. A first hand look at the table I think it would be easy to tell if it is a GC or not but I tend to think it is not since I found so many look-a-likes, they are no rare.
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Firstly, IMHO if this is a solid GC-lookalike (IE has a similar frame and good quality 1" slate with a 1" backing) $1000 is not a bad price even if it isn't a Brunswick. (Is it 9'?)

That said. certainly the ball return section does not look like a Brunswick. Aside from the proportions other people have mentions they usually always have a metal Brunswick logo in the center of the Ball Box.

Also, is there a space on the head rail where a name plate ought to go, but is now missing? All GC's I've seen have a Brunswick name plate on the head rail, although they sometimes get removed. (I have an AMF GC-lookalike that has an AMF plate instead of a Brunswick one in the same spot) If there's not space for this at all it would suggest it's not a Brunswick, or that the at least rail is possibly non-Brunswick. I guess as they make the GC without the score counters you could buy a short foot rail from Brunswick and put it on the head rail if you wanted to, not sure if this is ever done. (Some people don't like the way the name plates are often not flush to the rail on old GCs, so can scratch a shaft when bridging over it.)

Lastly can you get any photos of the underside of the frame itself? There ought to be a Brunswick sticker with the manufacturing date/model number on there somewhere if it's a genuine GC.
 
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It's a 9'. I'll have to see if the guy can send me some more pics. I can't believe it doesn't say what kind of table it is somewhere. Here is what he said about the table....

"This table was purchased from Joe Saad before his death and was originally played on at Gentleman Jims...For those of you who remember that far back. Table is in great shape and has been refinished about 10 years ago slate is perfect and has simonis cloth about 2 years old table has ball return feature."
 
CamposCues said:
It's a 9'. I'll have to see if the guy can send me some more pics. I can't believe it doesn't say what kind of table it is somewhere. Here is what he said about the table....

"This table was purchased from Joe Saad before his death and was originally played on at Gentleman Jims...For those of you who remember that far back. Table is in great shape and has been refinished about 10 years ago slate is perfect and has simonis cloth about 2 years old table has ball return feature."
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Joe was a good player and had money. I can't imagine him playing on a cheap table. Very possible that ball box is a replacement for the original.
Often the ball boxes on Gold Crowns would get very beat up.

The Spreader bar and ball returns are SO Brunswick. I've never seen that good an imitation if it is one. This table may have been refinished with some logos removed. That Brunswick plate set in the rail got in the way sometimes. Good advice to check underneath the frame for distinctive Brunswick decals etc.
 
The ball box does not scream Gold Crown at all. Even on the 1s and 2s.

Do the pockets have a place to put a bolt in? If so then it is more than likely a Gold Crown.

There are some good Gold Crown look alikes. I saw an Olio that looked just like a Gold Crown Black. Even better. Except it had corner peices on the blinds. But they even put OLIO right where Brunswick puts the B.

Looking at it I don't want to say it is a Gold Crown. I've seen a bunch but I can't recall them in my head. So I could be mistaken.
 
Not a Gold Crown

Nice knock off. See if you can get it at a better price. I know it is not a gc. I work on them every day.

Steve
 
Price

Tablemechanic said:
Nice knock off. See if you can get it at a better price. I know it is not a gc. I work on them every day.

Steve
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He said I could have it for $800. I wish I knew what the hell it was.
 
CamposCues said:
He said I could have it for $800. I wish I knew what the hell it was.
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Why bother-You can find a Gold Crown for close to that amount before too long and then you won't be bugged by having a 'zircon table' for the next 20 years. Do it right dude!
 
it is a deal

unless you are determined to have a Gold Crown, why the fuss? Does it play well? And if you like the way it plays what does the brand matter?
Besides $800 for a nice 9ft commercial table is a super price. Any GC's I have seen have gone for maybe 2-3 times that, not because they are that good of tables, but they have some cult status .
Personally I have a commercial AMF table that plays solid, and I love it. I bought it from a pool hall that went out of business locally, it was their house table for matches.
 
For $800 I feel it is a deal.

If you are dead set on having a Gold Crown then put some Superspeed cushions on it for a few hundred and you'll pretty much have a Gold Crown.
 
Table

smittie1984 said:
For $800 I feel it is a deal.

If you are dead set on having a Gold Crown then put some Superspeed cushions on it for a few hundred and you'll pretty much have a Gold Crown.
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No, I'm not dead set on having a GC but this table is about 5 hours from me and I've never played on it. I just wanted to know if it was a GC so that I'd have a better idea on how it would play since I've played on many GC's. My best guess is it's a decent table since it was in a pool hall and a well know player had it. For $800 I don't think I can go wrong.
 
Years ago Brunswick made a cheaper version of the Gold Crown called "The
Medalist", they were very close to the Crowns, this one looks a lot like one of them.
 
I think Medalist have metal corner pieces connecting the end and side blinds.

I know Brass Rails in Athens has some 8foot Medalists. It was missing the Brunswick nameplate. But you can see where it was.
 
Medalist

Medalist do not have any side pocket castings. The side rails are all one piece. 5 hours is a long drive for something you might not want to buy. I feel that the time and gas money adds a few hunderd to the cost of the table to pick it up.

Steve
 
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