Is this a legal shot?
- Thread starter alstl
- Start date
That's right, because (as high speed video confirms) both balls leave the tip immediately as if they're one ball - there's no double hit and no prolonged tip/ball cantact (push).
Bob Jewett teaches a clever way to control very accurately where the cue ball goes on frozen-ball shots like this - I think he calls it the "two times fuller" technique.
pj
chgo
6.7 Double Hit / Frozen Balls
If the cue stick contacts the cue ball more than once on a shot, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is close to but not touching an object ball and the cue tip is still on the cue ball when the cue ball contacts that object ball, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is very close to an object ball, and the shooter barely grazes that object ball on the shot, the shot is assumed not to violate the first paragraph of this rule, even though the tip is arguably still on the cue ball when ball-ball contact is made.
However, if the cue ball is touching an object ball at the start of the shot, it is legal to shoot towards or partly into that ball (provided it is a legal target within the rules of the game) and if the object ball is moved by such a shot, it is considered to have been contacted by the cue ball. (Even though it may be legal to shoot towards such a touching or “frozen” ball, care must be taken not to violate the rules in the first paragraph if there are additional balls close by.)
The cue ball is assumed not to be touching any ball unless it is declared touching by the referee or opponent. It is the shooter’s responsibility to get the declaration before the shot. Playing away from a frozen ball does not constitute having hit that ball unless specified in the rules of the game.
If the cue stick contacts the cue ball more than once on a shot, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is close to but not touching an object ball and the cue tip is still on the cue ball when the cue ball contacts that object ball, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is very close to an object ball, and the shooter barely grazes that object ball on the shot, the shot is assumed not to violate the first paragraph of this rule, even though the tip is arguably still on the cue ball when ball-ball contact is made.
However, if the cue ball is touching an object ball at the start of the shot, it is legal to shoot towards or partly into that ball (provided it is a legal target within the rules of the game) and if the object ball is moved by such a shot, it is considered to have been contacted by the cue ball. (Even though it may be legal to shoot towards such a touching or “frozen” ball, care must be taken not to violate the rules in the first paragraph if there are additional balls close by.)
The cue ball is assumed not to be touching any ball unless it is declared touching by the referee or opponent. It is the shooter’s responsibility to get the declaration before the shot. Playing away from a frozen ball does not constitute having hit that ball unless specified in the rules of the game.
I watched it a few more times and never seen a double hit
or a push shot.I actually had a shot very close to this at the
Canadians and the ref came over to watch the hit.I hit the ball
on a small angle and was called a good hit and both balls
were frozen.Usually can see if its a bad hit cause the cueball
reacts and looks odd if the ball is struck improperly.The cueball
gets that skidding effect when its a obvious bad hit.
or a push shot.I actually had a shot very close to this at the
Canadians and the ref came over to watch the hit.I hit the ball
on a small angle and was called a good hit and both balls
were frozen.Usually can see if its a bad hit cause the cueball
reacts and looks odd if the ball is struck improperly.The cueball
gets that skidding effect when its a obvious bad hit.
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Angle doesn't matter - you can shoot straight through the balls.
Some rule sets say you must shoot at an angle, but they're wrong.
pj
chgo
Legal shot?
I agree that it was legal. I don't know if the 'miniscual illegal' is totally correct. It depends on the double hit. U can shoot them leagally. It depends on the distance they are apart & the angle, speed, & english at which U shoot them. Just my 2 cents.
I agree that it was legal. I don't know if the 'miniscual illegal' is totally correct. It depends on the double hit. U can shoot them leagally. It depends on the distance they are apart & the angle, speed, & english at which U shoot them. Just my 2 cents.
They were both frozen and agree with you that it was legal.Maybe I'm
wrong,it wouldn't be the first time
According to your avitar it must have bee legal. If not a meteor would have fallen on you.
Here is the article that discusses that system and another that I call the "ten times fuller" system: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1996-02.pdf The two-times-fuller system is also explained in Robert Byrne's "Standard Book of Pool and Billiards".
There is another version of the frozen cue ball system around that involves doubling the angle, but that works well over only a small range of shots.