Is Touch Of Inside "the teacher"

[His Boy Elroy]

A miss hit on the TOI line can tell people something they're doing wrong, but a miss hit on center can't? That's pretty faulty logic. Now, you also must include deflection/squirt in the hit because it isn't center. Whereas, if you're off a hair from center, there is minimal difference, but being off from off-center could result in a larger difference if it isn't towards the center.

When it's all calibrated, how can you say that you're not spinning the CB? You're either hitting it center or you're spinning it, there's no hitting it off-center and not spinning it.

I could just as easily say that center ball is best, because if you're off to the left, the cb squirts to the right to negate the effect and vice versa. You don't even have to recalibrate for that.

It's not faulty logic. If you shoot a basketball and it keeps hitting the back of the rim, you know you should adjust by lightening up a bit and the ball will drop in the middle of the rim. If you keep hitting the front of the rim, you know you should adjust by putting something more on the ball.

Similiarly, with T.O.I., if on a right cut, you keep hitting the left side of the pocket, you know you're not putting enough inside on the ball and if you adjust by putting on more inside, the ball should go in the center of the pocket. If the ball keeps going in the right side of the pocket, you know you should adjust by putting less inside on the cb.

When you're off on a center ball hit, you don't know what you did wrong or how to adjust to rectify things. At least I don't.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I believe it's more like shooting a pistol

Where does the shot line fall in relation to your right foot? Is your foot/toe completely left of the shot line or does it cross over a portion of your foot?

Best,
Mike

With me and most players I've worked with it's in the center of the foot favoring the heal slightly (the bone there is a good reference).

Some instructors teach that the approach is like shooting a rifle, and I believe it's more like shooting a pistol......I want to get the feeling of shooting out of the center of my vision. This keeps the head square and there's no need to wonder about the "master eye" placement.

Pool is very natural when you can get into this position, of course there is a "catch," and that's how the player clears their hips out of the way.

This is done by initiating the downswing with the lower body (when coming down to the cue ball) instead of lowering the head and throwing the shoulders/head out of line where the head can't remain square (to the cue ball and shot line). 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

.the important thing is it gives the player a substantial advantage.

I can't answer any of your questions, although I wish I could. However, TOI does work amazingly well.

It's the same principle that golfers use that fade or draw the golf ball. It creates a way to play to zones and improve margin of error. I've explained this in many different ways, shapes and forms over the last year....the important thing is it gives the player a substantial advantage.

 

[Mikjary]

With me and most players I've worked with it's in the center of the foot favoring the heal slightly (the bone there is a good reference).

Some instructors teach that the approach is like shooting a rifle, and I believe it's more like shooting a pistol......I want to get the feeling of shooting out of the center of my vision. This keeps the head square and there's no need to wonder about the "master eye" placement.

Pool is very natural when you can get into this position, of course there is a "catch," and that's how the player clears their hips out of the way.

This is done by initiating the downswing with the lower body (when coming down to the cue ball) instead of lowering the head and throwing the shoulders/head out of line where the head can't remain square (to the cue ball and shot line). 'The Game is the Teacher'

Great post and thanks for the clarification on the foot placement. Lowering into the shot as you described allows for the shooter to get into a solid athletic position to stroke the cue ball. Sorry for the hijack. :smile:

I don't know if it's me, but I'm hitting the same place on the cue ball with my LD shaft as I did with my standard maple shaft and getting the same cue ball deflection using TOI. Slowing down the stroke is the only time I notice any cueing difference between the two shafts.

I cue just a hair off of center. If I roll whitey up and down the 9 feet, I get about a half of a diamond of movement both ways with a medium stroke. This lets me hit the object ball with a dead TOI cue ball and play tighter position. :thumbup:

Best,
Mike

 

[LAMas]

Great post and thanks for the clarification on the foot placement. Lowering into the shot as you described allows for the shooter to get into a solid athletic position to stroke the cue ball. Sorry for the hijack. :smile:

I don't know if it's me, but I'm hitting the same place on the cue ball with my LD shaft as I did with my standard maple shaft and getting the same cue ball deflection using TOI. Slowing down the stroke is the only time I notice any cueing difference between the two shafts.

I cue just a hair off of center. If I roll whitey up and down the 9 feet, I get about a half of a diamond of movement both ways with a medium stroke. This lets me hit the object ball with a dead TOI cue ball and play tighter position. :thumbup:

Best,
Mike

Mike,
Your standard maple shaft must be LD.

Tighter is more accurate?

Be well.

 

[Mikjary]

Big E,

My shaft is a Meucci Original from the 80's. I had a newer, cheap McDermott butt with an OB 1 I was using. I switched the LD shaft to an older D-12 McD and noticed a better hit with a TOI.

I know it's been said that the butt makes no difference, cue harmonics and all that, and it may just be a personal preference. It seemed to hit a lot more solid, though, and I'm probably more comfortable with the new feel.

True, the cue ball hit may be more accurate despite the shaft being 13 mm. I may order a LD shaft for my Meucci and see what happens. That would be weird...a Meucci Original with a LD shaft! :grin-square:

Best,
Mike

 

[Banks]

It's not faulty logic. If you shoot a basketball and it keeps hitting the back of the rim, you know you should adjust by lightening up a bit and the ball will drop in the middle of the rim. If you keep hitting the front of the rim, you know you should adjust by putting something more on the ball.

Similiarly, with T.O.I., if on a right cut, you keep hitting the left side of the pocket, you know you're not putting enough inside on the ball and if you adjust by putting on more inside, the ball should go in the center of the pocket. If the ball keeps going in the right side of the pocket, you know you should adjust by putting less inside on the cb.

When you're off on a center ball hit, you don't know what you did wrong or how to adjust to rectify things. At least I don't.

I understand the calibration part just fine, as that's how I've always considered how I aim/play. If you can't hit center regularly, how are you going to hit off-center any more regularly and not have any problems with spin? If you're aiming center and you miss left or have spin, you know exactly how you hit it. How is aiming off-center going to change that?

As somebody has said before me, and somebody will say afterwards.. the game involves more than just hitting inside on a cut shot. If that's all you plan on doing, you're going to have a hard time. Unless, I guess, there ends up being a TOO and TOC lesson to follow up. Heaven help us if there's ever a Touch Of Top/Bottom and the ensuing mixture of Touch Of Low-Right/Left/High-Right/Left. Don't even get me started on Touch Of Fast/Slow.

 

[dougster26]

There are three components to ball pocketing for anyone, pro or otherwise.

1) Cue Ball Target (where your tip will be aimed to contact the cue ball)
2) Cue Speed (speed that the cue will move though the cue ball)
3) Angle Creation (the relationship the cue ball will have to the object ball to create the angle desired ie: full/half/quarter/etc).

The TOI uses basically the same speed, the same cue ball target (slightly inside) and the same way to create the angle (tip slightly inside to either center or edge of object ball).

This way the three factors/components to pocket ANY BALL are all blended into one uniform "system".....'The Touch of Inside' - What could be easier? Then, the object is to calibrate your stroke so it's precise and accurate - however, this is another aspect of the game that requires an understanding of correct body/cue mechanics.

The pros do this aspect better than the "shortstops," and it is mostly because of their ability to clear the hip and coil the right shoulder properly (if they're right handed). 'The Game is Their Teacher'

CJ,

Could you explain what you mean by coiling the shoulder? I thought you were suppose to be loose, this sounds like you are tensing up. I don't understand.

Many thanks! A lot of us really appreciate what you are doing to help out those that are trying to elevate their game.

Dougster

 

[CJ Wiley]

there's an 80% chance you can play better with more potential energy

There is a school of thought that "loose" is better with the grip and shoulder however, if you've played other sports like golf and tennis it's apparent that you need a solid foundation to coil (to have something to release with acceleration and in the pool stroke this is essential).

The only advantage to being "loose" is your body will have an easier time making adjustments for fundamental errors....in other worlds you can correct pre shot mistakes better .....but is this what you really want to do?

I'm estimating that 80% of the unconscious (mental horsepower) potential in beginner/intermediate players is used for correction of pre shot errors (like coming down on the cue ball incorrectly, and ineffective feet/upper and body positions that are impossible to duplicate consistently).....it's probably 30 - 50% in "short stops".

From my experience I would suggest there's an 80 % chance you can play better with more potential energy stored in your shoulder/forearm/wrist/hand ....if you have problems getting the desired acceleration through the ball and can't move the cue ball around the table as well {as needed} the percentage goes up to 100% that you could benefit by understanding (and implementing) how to create coil in your stoke.

I will explain this more is there's an interest although it's pretty well explained in 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' and routines/drills are shown in 'Billiards Inside Secrets' to create more coil/potential energy in your stoke and overall game. Any game that requires precision and acceleration requires coil....even darts and shooting free throws (basketball) is a good example.....you need a healthy resistance to use as a way to create a track/slot - in order to have a straight cue delivery (through the cue ball) this is essential. 'The Game is the Teacher'

CJ,

Could you explain what you mean by coiling the shoulder? I thought you were suppose to be loose, this sounds like you are tensing up. I don't understand.

Many thanks! A lot of us really appreciate what you are doing to help out those that are trying to elevate their game.

Dougster

 

[His Boy Elroy]

There is a school of thought that "loose" is better with the grip and shoulder however, if you've played other sports like golf and tennis it's apparent that you need a solid foundation to coil (to have something to release with acceleration and in the pool stroke this is essential).

The only advantage to being "loose" is your body will have an easier time making adjustments for fundamental errors....in other worlds you can correct pre shot mistakes better .....but is this what you really want to do?

I'm estimating that 80% of the unconscious (mental horsepower) potential in beginner/intermediate players is used for correction of pre shot errors (like coming down on the cue ball incorrectly, and ineffective feet/upper and body positions that are impossible to duplicate consistently).....it's probably 30 - 50% in "short stops".

From my experience I would suggest there's an 80 % chance you can play better with more potential energy stored in your shoulder/forearm/wrist/hand ....if you have problems getting the desired acceleration through the ball and can't move the cue ball around the table as well {as needed} the percentage goes up to 100% that you could benefit by understanding (and implementing) how to create coil in your stoke.

I will explain this more is there's an interest although it's pretty well explained in 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' and routines/drills are shown in 'Billiards Inside Secrets' to create more coil/potential energy in your stoke and overall game. Any game that requires precision and acceleration requires coil....even darts and shooting free throws (basketball) is a good example.....you need a healthy resistance to use as a way to create a track/slot - in order to have a straight cue delivery (through the cue ball) this is essential. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Hmmm...I think I'm beginning to get the gist of what you're saying. Anyone who shoots well can shoot decently standing up straight with both feet together and playing with one hand holding the cue. I think what you're saying is that there might be shortstops out there who do this better than some pro's but because of a lack of diligence in learning fundamentals, remain shortstops.

 

[His Boy Elroy]

I understand the calibration part just fine, as that's how I've always considered how I aim/play. If you can't hit center regularly, how are you going to hit off-center any more regularly and not have any problems with spin? If you're aiming center and you miss left or have spin, you know exactly how you hit it. How is aiming off-center going to change that?

As somebody has said before me, and somebody will say afterwards.. the game involves more than just hitting inside on a cut shot. If that's all you plan on doing, you're going to have a hard time. Unless, I guess, there ends up being a TOO and TOC lesson to follow up. Heaven help us if there's ever a Touch Of Top/Bottom and the ensuing mixture of Touch Of Low-Right/Left/High-Right/Left. Don't even get me started on Touch Of Fast/Slow.

OK: How"s this? While using T.O.I on a cut shot to the right you aim for the left side of the pocket. If you put the correct touch of inside on the cb it's going to drop in the center of the pocket. You know this and probably think I should stop repeating myself.

But wait! What happens if I miss hit and don't produce the correct inside on the cb? What are the possible outcomes? There are 2 possible outcomes. One is that I miss the pocket to the left and hit the cushion. The other outcome is that the ob goes straight into the left side of the pocket.

So let's think about this. If I'm aiming for the left side of the pocket and trying to deflect the ob to the right, how badly do I have to miss hit in order to miss the pocket and hit the cushion to the left? REAL BADLY! Basically, I have an imaginary wall separating the point on the left facing and the cushion to the left of that. I don't worry about missing to the left while using T.O.I. I'm not saying I never hit the
ball REAL BADLY; just not often enough to worry about it.

So if I aim at the left side and miss hit by not producing enough side on the ball, where's the ball going to end up? Most of the time it's going straight into the left side I aimed at. It's simple as that!

So now, I'm doing a right cut and I'm aiming at the left side of the pocket. I'm not worrying about missing the pocket to the left. I'm only worried about missing the pocket to the right. But I'm aiming at the left side of the pocket. So look at that large expanse of green covered slate to the right with a hole behind it! Talk about a margin for error?

When shooting a center ball at the center of the pocket, I'm not at all protected on the right or left as I am on one of the sides when using T.O.I. Also; the margin of error on either side when aiming at the center of the pocket is much smaller than the margin of error when shooting at the side of the pocket while using T.O.I.

 

[Banks]

Again, you're trying to say you can't tell what you're doing unless you hit with inside.

 

[naji]

Again, you're trying to say you can't tell what you're doing unless you hit with inside.

The intent of TOI is not to put english, it is to correct stroke error. You still will use TOI for outside english. I cannot say anymore you have to buy the DVDs.

 

[Jaden]

Yeah...

With me and most players I've worked with it's in the center of the foot favoring the heal slightly (the bone there is a good reference).

Some instructors teach that the approach is like shooting a rifle, and I believe it's more like shooting a pistol......I want to get the feeling of shooting out of the center of my vision. This keeps the head square and there's no need to wonder about the "master eye" placement.

Pool is very natural when you can get into this position, of course there is a "catch," and that's how the player clears their hips out of the way.

This is done by initiating the downswing with the lower body (when coming down to the cue ball) instead of lowering the head and throwing the shoulders/head out of line where the head can't remain square (to the cue ball and shot line). 'The Game is the Teacher'

What I do and teach is to keep the rear foot at a 60 degree angle incident to the shot line with the inside front of the heel on the shot line and the front foot with the toe pointing towards the destination. This keeps the hips out of the way which is absolutely necessary if you use BHE.

I no longer use BHE but I still think this is the best way to line up.

Jaden

 

[CJ Wiley]

it's vital to know why right away or you may make an unnecessary adjustment

Again, you're trying to say you can't tell what you're doing unless you hit with inside.

The most important thing is to take one compete area of deflection out of the equation. In other words if you favor the inside of the cue ball you will either hit it slightly more inside, or center (if your stroke deviates slightly due to pressure, or human tendencies) .....this will, as an effect make the object ball cut slightly more.

However, the object ball will NOT undercut using this method.....so if you do undercut a ball you know it's a stoking/alignment flaw.....this is very important feedback when you're playing well and suddenly miss a ball ....it's vital to know why right away or you may make an unnecessary adjustment and completely fall apart.

I see this happen quite a bit with "short stop" level players and it's usually from not understanding how zones are used.

 

[CJ Wiley]

you're tapping into the part of the mind (the subconscious) that can play perfectly

It's human nature to make things difficult and I've seen it many times with pool players ....."There must be a harder, more complicated way" is the motto.

The advantage of TOI is it makes every shot similar in nature....if you're cutting the ball to the left, you use a "touch of left," and if you're cutting the ball to the right, you use a "touch of right".....what could be more simple to remember?

If you are undercutting the object ball use slightly more TOI and if you're over cutting the ball use slightly less TOI.

As I've said many times, you still have to practice to calibrate your shots to the middle of the pocket....then just use a consistent shot speed and every shot will start to look the same no matter what the situation......at this point the game will start to play though you (The Zone) instead of the frustrating alternative.

What's happening is you're tapping into the part of the mind (the subconscious) that can play the game at the highest level.....no player in history has been able to do this consciously without processing the subconscious mind.

'The Subconscious is the Teacher'

It's not faulty logic. If you shoot a basketball and it keeps hitting the back of the rim, you know you should adjust by lightening up a bit and the ball will drop in the middle of the rim. If you keep hitting the front of the rim, you know you should adjust by putting something more on the ball.

Similiarly, with T.O.I., if on a right cut, you keep hitting the left side of the pocket, you know you're not putting enough inside on the ball and if you adjust by putting on more inside, the ball should go in the center of the pocket. If the ball keeps going in the right side of the pocket, you know you should adjust by putting less inside on the cb.

When you're off on a center ball hit, you don't know what you did wrong or how to adjust to rectify things. At least I don't.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I'm refining the "advanced chapter" (on TOI) and will share it

That's right my friend, it's essential to "know what you don't know," and few players know how much using TOI will help their games.

I'm refining the "advanced chapter" (on TOI) and will share it with you asap.

Aloha

It works, just try it and you will see.

It´s like a puzzle, try the pieces and see what will work. Look at the result not the goal, have the goal in mind though. You have to walk the road to get there.

The way of learning is a by seeing it, not ignoring it. If it´s black, it´s blocked, if it´s white it´s open.

There is many different ways to play pool but bear in mind that you have trained it all your life, angles, seeing, doing it, ..... you are the creator and if you take full responsibility you will grow. Measure it in knowledge and not in "wins". Win, loose = just a result, equally as important to grow.

Open up for new ways, not closing down.

Take care and may the force be with you

Chrippa

 

[markgw]

That's right my friend, it's essential to "know what you don't know," and few players know how much using TOI will help their games.

I'm refining the "advanced chapter" (on TOI) and will share it with you asap.

Aloha

You want to hear something crazy CJ. I have been hearing about your TOI for a long time now, but thought it's too late in the game for me to try anything like that, I would just dog it. Well my friend Fach Garcia was over my house who is a strong A player, he told me he uses a hair of inside english on long straight shots and a lot of other shots. I proceeded to set up a long straight in shot and tried it and I could not believe the accuracy and the way the cueball and object ball acted. The cueball kind of stuns the object ball in and seems to act like you put a center ball hit.

I am really getting used to it now and even had the confidence to use it in The Swanee tournament. My shotmaking is way more consistent!! I swear I'm not doing a CJ Wiley commercial here, I'm just blown away by it, LOL. It doesn't make scientific sense to me, but it works amazing!!! I'm using about a quarter tip if inside and I am shocked by my results... I am running 50 balls plus everyday on my Gold Crown Three with 4 5/8 in. pkts. I actually saw Dennis Hatch use it in the Mosconi cup on a straight in shot on the 9 by seeing a behind camera angle. I said to myself that's not how I would shoot that, but I like the way the object ball reacted. I know for a fact you have a handle on what you have been trying to teach everyone, especially since I am using it and know it works!

 

[CJ Wiley]

LESS DECISIONS and ONE CONSISTENT SHOT PATTERN

Yes, the TOI is the technique I've found that can raise your game's level substantially in just a few hours....of course those hours (3) should be committed to using 'The Touch of Inside' and the effort is well worth it.

I've had a great deal of success in my professional pool career using the TOI and never had to practice as much as the other pros. Two hours a day is PLENTY when you make a commitment to use the touch of inside on the majority of your shots. The reason is simple: LESS DECISIONS and ONE CONSISTENT SHOT PATTERN that you can rely on instead of using a different one on every other shot (or ever shot).

Keep it Simple and continue to reap the benefits, Mark, glad you're enjoying your new toi......'The Game is the Teacher'

You want to hear something crazy CJ. I have been hearing about your TOI for a long time now, but thought it's too late in the game for me to try anything like that, I would just dog it. Well my friend Fach Garcia was over my house who is a strong A player, he told me he uses a hair of inside english on long straight shots and a lot of other shots. I proceeded to set up a long straight in shot and tried it and I could not believe the accuracy and the way the cueball and object ball acted. The cueball kind of stuns the object ball in and seems to act like you put a center ball hit.

I am really getting used to it now and even had the confidence to use it in The Swanee tournament. My shotmaking is way more consistent!! I swear I'm not doing a CJ Wiley commercial here, I'm just blown away by it, LOL. It doesn't make scientific sense to me, but it works amazing!!! I'm using about a quarter tip if inside and I am shocked by my results... I am running 50 balls plus everyday on my Gold Crown Three with 4 5/8 in. pkts. I actually saw Dennis Hatch use it in the Mosconi cup on a straight in shot on the 9 by seeing a behind camera angle. I said to myself that's not how I would shoot that, but I like the way the object ball reacted. I know for a fact you have a handle on what you have been trying to teach everyone, especially since I am using it and know it works!

 

[His Boy Elroy]

The TOI gives the cue ball a heavier feel, while spinning the ball into position gives it a lighter feel. The touch of inside makes the cue ball look like it's "floating" into position, and sometimes it's referred to as "having the cue ball on a string"....it has a different look after contact than the regular spinning shot that many people use.

I like the heavy ball because it holds up better under pressure, although on new, fast cloth it's not as big of an advantage, especially when not playing on Gold Crowns. Most gambling matches are played in pool rooms where the cloth is worn and a bit slower.

Alright; forget about my sarcastic comments about this post on 2/26. I just bought a used, 9 foot, Gold Crown IV.