Well when you're the top handicap and you beat everyone, that's pretty satisfying. You've done that right?
Freddie <~~~ maybe that's why
Is winning a handicapped tourney really a big of a accomplishment?
- Thread starter Gsitz89
- Start date
Well when you're the top handicap and you beat everyone, that's pretty satisfying. You've done that right?
Freddie <~~~ maybe that's why
My experience has been that Short race, Handicapped tourneys are usually won by the better players regardless of the handicap.
Its kind of like matching up. The better players never (rarely) give up enough weight to lose the match unless something exceptional occurs.
Sandbagging is rare because its usually small events where the fields are all locals of known abilities.
The better players "control" the games and unless they make a big mistake or the weaker player "flukes" a couple of wins, the outcome is not really much different than if there were no handicap.
Winning with a handicap carries no shame.
Its kind of like matching up. The better players never (rarely) give up enough weight to lose the match unless something exceptional occurs.
Sandbagging is rare because its usually small events where the fields are all locals of known abilities.
The better players "control" the games and unless they make a big mistake or the weaker player "flukes" a couple of wins, the outcome is not really much different than if there were no handicap.
Winning with a handicap carries no shame.
I agree, this is why I keep betting on the Colts and telling my bookie ... nah, I don't want any points and let's keep it even money.
The point of a handicap tourney is to encourage more people to play. If you can convince twice as many people to pony up entry fees on the dream that their handicap is going to get them somewhere, then that is just more money for the field. It is rare that a handicapped player will rise up and overcome an entire field of players. Of course, you will have your "spurt" plays where a handicapped player takes out someone with more talent, but that hardly ever rides the whole tourney. If a handicap system could be used that actually worked, it is good for everyone. The problem is the people that manage to sneak in way UNDER their handicap and that is what gives such a bad rep to handicap tourneys, imho.
The point of a handicap tourney is to encourage more people to play. If you can convince twice as many people to pony up entry fees on the dream that their handicap is going to get them somewhere, then that is just more money for the field. It is rare that a handicapped player will rise up and overcome an entire field of players. Of course, you will have your "spurt" plays where a handicapped player takes out someone with more talent, but that hardly ever rides the whole tourney. If a handicap system could be used that actually worked, it is good for everyone. The problem is the people that manage to sneak in way UNDER their handicap and that is what gives such a bad rep to handicap tourneys, imho.
Obviously in my post it states not.
I like every part of this statement.
If you're the highest rated player and you're drilling everyone lower than you, well that's what you're supposed to do.
If you're a middle of the pack guy running a couple of ball here and there, and playing a smart safety to stay in control and win against better players, well, you're rising to the occasion and your rating will go up, which is what you want? If you're the same guy but losing to lower rated players because of their slopped in shots and your inability to manage a game into your favor, well sh!t happens.
If you're the guy who losses giving 5 games in a race 7... Well it sucks to be you friend.
I think it's still an accomplishment even when you factor in the probability of players sandbagging. Those guys are gone after the first bracket, and gone again in a buy-back tourney. Everyone remaining is playing their best for the prize.
In some leagues around here the handicaps are designed to give a 50-50 chance in all matches. They come pretty close. That's because of the way the ratings are adjusted. In the finals of last season's 14.1 league, I had to go to 130 and my opponent went to 15. I had to make a mid-match strategy adjustment and also play well to win.
In leagues with 100% handicaps you have to elevate your game to win regardless of whether you are the stronger or weaker player. Playing your average speed will not get you through the finals. If you win you played well, for you.
If you are the higher ranked player handicap tournaments are tough to win. One tournament I played in I was the highest player there and had to give my opponent the 5,6,7 and the breaks in a race to 5. I won 5-4. Next guy I played I had to spot him the 7 and the 8 and lost 5-1 because of two bad rolls on the 9 and a hung 8 ball. You live by the gun you die by the gun. Only way to make you win or lose fairly is to play in Open events. Once you start doing that handicap tourneys arent for you.
Last night in my NAPA league I played a really low ranked player. I lost the lag and he chose 9 ball (which is what I wanted) and I had to spot him 4 games in a race to 7. I made 2 9 balls on the snap (in a row mind you
) and only missed two balls the entire match. Won 7-4 and didnt break a sweat except.... My first miss in game one the 9 hung in the corner after I tired a billiard on it. He runs the 3 and 4 and plays shape on the 9 with the 5 ball and botched it!! Only then was I worried but after that miss I caught a gear and it was over.
So I guess it didnt matter who I was playing last night. The handicap wasnt even a factor. If he made that combo on the 9 would it have caused the handicap to come into play?? You bet it would have
Last night in my NAPA league I played a really low ranked player. I lost the lag and he chose 9 ball (which is what I wanted) and I had to spot him 4 games in a race to 7. I made 2 9 balls on the snap (in a row mind you
) and only missed two balls the entire match. Won 7-4 and didnt break a sweat except.... My first miss in game one the 9 hung in the corner after I tired a billiard on it. He runs the 3 and 4 and plays shape on the 9 with the 5 ball and botched it!! Only then was I worried but after that miss I caught a gear and it was over. So I guess it didnt matter who I was playing last night. The handicap wasnt even a factor. If he made that combo on the 9 would it have caused the handicap to come into play?? You bet it would have
The point of most tournaments is for people to be able to play
on even ground.Granted sometimes handicaps are wrong and certain
players get in to low but all in all if the tournament is non-handicapped
the field would end up being way smaller and the money being totally
crap.
Its a tough call because with pool on a decline you want as many people to contribute in a event without insulting the pros who have dedicated
most of there life to the game who end up the real victims in handicap
events spotting guys out the wazoo.
On the flip -side there are many that say for the experience to play a
pro even is the way to go but many feel its not worth the money.
In most handicapped tournaments there might be 10% of the 64 man
field that is there for the experience but the rest is there to win it.
The trick of handicapped tournaments is to make it possible that everyone
feels like they have a legitimate shot to win it.
Can this be done without people feeling cheated ,over handicapped
and pissed off in general?Of course not....it's pool were talking about!
on even ground.Granted sometimes handicaps are wrong and certain
players get in to low but all in all if the tournament is non-handicapped
the field would end up being way smaller and the money being totally
crap.
Its a tough call because with pool on a decline you want as many people to contribute in a event without insulting the pros who have dedicated
most of there life to the game who end up the real victims in handicap
events spotting guys out the wazoo.
On the flip -side there are many that say for the experience to play a
pro even is the way to go but many feel its not worth the money.
In most handicapped tournaments there might be 10% of the 64 man
field that is there for the experience but the rest is there to win it.
The trick of handicapped tournaments is to make it possible that everyone
feels like they have a legitimate shot to win it.
Can this be done without people feeling cheated ,over handicapped
and pissed off in general?Of course not....it's pool were talking about!
I find it challenging as my rating has went up and now I am playing in tournaments usually as one of the higher rated players having to give up sometimes the 7,8,9. I realize I have to play very solid to win giving that handicap either running out or playing very smart every rack. It is good practice and is applied to playing better players also who you must run out against or lose. Do not get me wrong I find it amusing when someone blows their horn about winning and they are at a low rating getting weight the whole tournament.
giving weight
When I win giving the 7+8 called and wild on the break to most of the players it is as rough as playing regional shortstops. The same pressure. to get out at the end of the rack plus they win when I:
Hang or miss the 7,8,9
Run out to the ball or two before their money balls
An easy combo, often after my dry break or when they make a ball
They make any of 3 of 9 balls off the break
I'd rather play even or give games instead of balls, but locally they Will never happen.
Here we punish improvement and reward mediocrity, just like most of the US.
When I win giving the 7+8 called and wild on the break to most of the players it is as rough as playing regional shortstops. The same pressure. to get out at the end of the rack plus they win when I:
Hang or miss the 7,8,9
Run out to the ball or two before their money balls
An easy combo, often after my dry break or when they make a ball
They make any of 3 of 9 balls off the break
I'd rather play even or give games instead of balls, but locally they Will never happen.
Here we punish improvement and reward mediocrity, just like most of the US.
Might not be a "big accomplishment" but it satisfies me:groucho: If it's handicapped correctly, players should have to be "on their game" to take it down. The small local ones I've played in, and won or placed, I've felt that I had to play close to the best of my abilities to get there, whether I was gettin' or givin'. I've played in a few open tournaments and realized quickly that I had a "snowballs chance in hell to place in the money"
:scratchhead:
Sounds like you have a mindset that you think you should lose on purpose so you're not taking advantage of a good player.:killingme:
Turn it around. How do you think a pro feels playing and beating a lousy player? Should he feel satisfied that he didn't beat the best player?
If you are in it to win it...you should be thankful that the poolgods let it happen.
Good players take advantage of lousy players all the time. You should feel great that you had a chance to win.:smile:
In defense of Handicapped Tournaments, in part of the country, without em few would come out to add to a prize fund...JMHO
No one like loosing all the time. Some without a Handicapped Tournament will never have a chance of winning.
Sounds like you aren't good enough to win one and therefore rationalizing why you are performing badly during one.
I was guility of this at one point. Took over a year off and just practiced and played a small circle of regulars.
Recently, I realized I need more of a challenge. My game had became so solid, I wanted to really test myself.
In order to go to the next level in my game, tournament play is necessary. My weakness right now is stage fright, performance anxiety.
Now, when I miss, I know it is not because of lack of practice, but what is happening between my ears. Simple, unforced errors are killing me, but I know that the only way to get over this is to keep at it. I'm not used to having a crowd watch me play and that is what's is creeping into my mind at times.
The last two local handicap tourney, I went to third in both and on the winners side in both. But, I was stopped both times by the same person. A more consistent player, that has really good ball control.
When he plays, there's a crowd watching him and I just fall apart regardless how well I played getting there. He's my new bench mark.
Before, the year or so off, I would have just said its no big deal and probably stopped. Whereas now, I realize that to become a top player is a evolution, a multi-level process that takes a lifetime. Once I accepted this fact, I can take the bad play because I know this is needed in order to evolve as a pool player and as a person at the same time.
Winning is only as big a deal as you make it.
I was guility of this at one point. Took over a year off and just practiced and played a small circle of regulars.
Recently, I realized I need more of a challenge. My game had became so solid, I wanted to really test myself.
In order to go to the next level in my game, tournament play is necessary. My weakness right now is stage fright, performance anxiety.
Now, when I miss, I know it is not because of lack of practice, but what is happening between my ears. Simple, unforced errors are killing me, but I know that the only way to get over this is to keep at it. I'm not used to having a crowd watch me play and that is what's is creeping into my mind at times.
The last two local handicap tourney, I went to third in both and on the winners side in both. But, I was stopped both times by the same person. A more consistent player, that has really good ball control.
When he plays, there's a crowd watching him and I just fall apart regardless how well I played getting there. He's my new bench mark.
Before, the year or so off, I would have just said its no big deal and probably stopped. Whereas now, I realize that to become a top player is a evolution, a multi-level process that takes a lifetime. Once I accepted this fact, I can take the bad play because I know this is needed in order to evolve as a pool player and as a person at the same time.
Winning is only as big a deal as you make it.
It is a bigger deal to win a tourney with 64 players than a tourney with 3,4 or 5 players. It is a bigger deal to win a race to 11 winners break open tourney than to win a race to one tourney. Is it a bigger deal to win a bar 8 ball tourney with a field of drinkers or is it better to win a tourney filled with world class players who have all traveled to play. Is it better to the win the US Open 9 ball tourney or is it better to win Bobby's weekly bar 8 ball bangathon. Is it better to win an event with big $$ added or it is better to win an event with green fees, player card fees and whatever else fees they can think of to charge. Come on of course elite is better, non handicapped is better and big field is better, added cash etc yes to all of that
But if you re playing in a handicapped tourney and you have the weakest handicap then I expect that yeah winning such an event is a big deal to the winning player. If you don't like it stay home or put together your own event, if you do post it up I might just come play add some cash you will draw more players.
But if you re playing in a handicapped tourney and you have the weakest handicap then I expect that yeah winning such an event is a big deal to the winning player. If you don't like it stay home or put together your own event, if you do post it up I might just come play add some cash you will draw more players.
If you are the better player giving up the weight in a handicapped tournament, it might be considered a "good" accomplishment, IF YOU WIN.
Handicaps can be fair, or not. It's just another way to even up the field.
One-on-one Handicap tournaments are commone with two players competing against each other, sometimes for the cash and sometimes just for practice.
Handicapping is just another way of "fixing" the chances of the lesser player having a chance to win.
Don't worry, when you win by receiving a handicap long enough, the time will come soon enough when the shoe will be on the other foot, unless you are a professional sand-bagger.:grin:
Handicaps can be fair, or not. It's just another way to even up the field.
One-on-one Handicap tournaments are commone with two players competing against each other, sometimes for the cash and sometimes just for practice.
Handicapping is just another way of "fixing" the chances of the lesser player having a chance to win.
Don't worry, when you win by receiving a handicap long enough, the time will come soon enough when the shoe will be on the other foot, unless you are a professional sand-bagger.:grin:
Duckie, isnt the point that a handicapped tournament is possible for anyone to win? lol you must of misread my post. It was never about me being able to win one it was about the level of accomplishment. I would much rather win a tour stop without a handicap than one with. unless I was giving all the weight and then in that case it would be a bigger deal. I think people that brag about what they can or cant do are the ones that are not good at all.... just saying
If you negotiate a spot, handicap, in an action match and win the match........Would you feel satisfied?
I'm sure most people would be happy about winning and not he least bit concerned about handicapping or feeling satisfied.
I'm sure most people would be happy about winning and not he least bit concerned about handicapping or feeling satisfied.