Issues with the jaws and other questions

[realkingcobra]

Actually you're closer to the truth than you know...LOL One of the reasons that Simonis don't do so well on bar box tables is because they shave the cloth so close to the treads that it plays the way it does, BUT when you remove that close layer of loose nap if you will, you also allow the balls to ride more directly on the fibers of the threads...giving you the ball burnish marks characteristic of Simonis cloth. Simonis is actually working on a "Bar Box" cloth version of the 860, only they're not going to shave the cloth so close to the treads, therefore giving the threads more of a protective layer of longer nap if you will, that the balls will roll on, leaving less burnish marks on the cloth...kind of like playing on 860 upside down...fuzzy side up.

Glen

I've kicked around the idea of installing Simonis 760 upside down, just to see how it wears, and what it's speed is like. I've seen some of the 860 installed upside down by someone that didn't know what they were doing, but...I didn't see any break lines in the cloth what-so-ever, though it did shed some of the nap, like Championship Titan cloth does, but I was to busy to play on the table to see what it played like.

Glen

 

[Strokerz]

I've kicked around the idea of installing Simonis 760 upside down, just to see how it wears, and what it's speed is like. I've seen some of the 860 installed upside down by someone that didn't know what they were doing, but...I didn't see any break lines in the cloth what-so-ever, though it did shed some of the nap, like Championship Titan cloth does, but I was to busy to play on the table to see what it played like.

Glen

In your honest opinion Glen do you think simonis cloth is wearing like it use too? I would have to say the cloth I have been getting in the last year or 2 dosen't wear as good as it did a few years back. Very bad break lines lots of white spots these days. This is 860 i'm talkin about now. Just wanted you take on this.

 

[realkingcobra]

In your honest opinion Glen do you think simonis cloth is wearing like it use too? I would have to say the cloth I have been getting in the last year or 2 dosen't wear as good as it did a few years back. Very bad break lines lots of white spots these days. This is 860 i'm talkin about now. Just wanted you take on this.

You know what, I don't think it has so much to do with the cloth, I think it has something more to do with the cue balls being used today.

Glen

 

[Strokerz]

We use the arimath super pro balls with the eye cue ball, I clean each set of balls 1-2 times a week. I vacum the cloth with a shop vac and a 7 inck brush attachment and use quick claen also. Do you think the phenolics they use to make the super pro cue balls burn the cloth more than the others? Most places use the red circle cue balls. I am going to start using a break cloth on my main table (one with the mist 9-ball play) when I recover it this week and see if it helps. Guess it couldn't hurt

 

[Dartman]

Reading thru the threads there's a lot of comment about Simonis and "wear" - more to the extent of burn marks and break streaks rather then the "overall wear" of the cloth over say a 6 month period. I tend to agree that the problem more times then not it is the quality/finish of the ball set. I doubt there has been much change in manufacturing with 860 which leads to the question of whether we are just noticing this problem more now then in the past.

 

[Dartman]

Do you think the phenolics they use to make the super pro cue balls burn the cloth more than the others?

You would think that there should be less burn problems with a top shelf set of balls like the super pros.
Aramith addresses it in their advertising:
The extra hard phenolic surface drastically reduces burn spots on both balls and cloth. As a result, balls need to be polished and replaced far less, saving both time and money.
Is it possible there a point that could be considered "over-polishing" and if so what affect is there on the ball?

 

[Strokerz]

You would think that there should be less burn problems with a top shelf set of balls like the super pros.
Aramith addresses it in their advertising:
The extra hard phenolic surface drastically reduces burn spots on both balls and cloth. As a result, balls need to be polished and replaced far less, saving both time and money.
Is it possible there a point that could be considered "over-polishing" and if so what affect is there on the ball?

Never thought of that, I was always under the impression the cleaner the balls the cleaner the cloth the longer the cloth life. I am not a clean table or ball freak, I clean our tables about once a week or as needed the same with the balls but the table that gets the most action play I do about twice a week.

 

[realkingcobra]

You would think that there should be less burn problems with a top shelf set of balls like the super pros.
Aramith addresses it in their advertising:
The extra hard phenolic surface drastically reduces burn spots on both balls and cloth. As a result, balls need to be polished and replaced far less, saving both time and money.
Is it possible there a point that could be considered "over-polishing" and if so what affect is there on the ball?

As far as I'm concerned, the "extra hard surface" is nothing more than a new sales pitch with the super pro's. Think about this for a second, you can't use the Aramaith Premier sets on a Diamond coin-op because the sensor in the table thinks they're all cue balls, because that's how the cue ball is separated from the object balls in a Diamond table..."Hardness" and, it's been my experience that when polishing and waxing the balls weekly, the premiers stay shiny longer than the Pro's...but the Pro's cost about 2 to 3 times as much...hmmmm?

Glen

 

[Dartman]

At retail we sell premiers for 99 and the pros for 149. Haven't looked lately to see how others have these priced. Without looking up the product data I recall that there's a set of mfg tolerances and checks that aramith uses for their different ball sets and they are most precise for the pros making them pricier. I think finish is one of the criteria. I'm hoping to have time to talk with both simonis and aramith about the friction problem at the bca show next month. Possibly either or both of them have made some mfg changes.