Item Scam

arknova

arknova

Me like Pool. Mhmm
Silver Member
Hi,

another question post...


1) I've always been wondering if you've bought something and the seller didn't send the item, is it possible to just call the bank attached to your Paypal to reverse the payment immediately? (That is if you're sure that it's a scam)

2) Situation occurs when the seller suddenly gets guilty and sends the item to you at a much much later promised delivery timing but you've already reported the case. What is the best course of action?

3) What if the item is defective and the seller refuse to respond? Can you still call your bank to reverse payment?

4) Is there any protocol to follow for the fastest course of action (in terms of getting money back & reporting seller) in this kind of situation?

5) If Paypal credit card payments can be reversed, then why do people still not get their money back anyway?

I'm not a victim of such an incident but I will love to know what to do if ever such a thing happens to me. I'm sure a lot of people will like to have such information available as well.

Thanks,
Clarence
 
Last edited:
Weird that this question is coming from Singapore, where the majority of these scams originate. Most cases, the scam is what you're describing...someone purchases an item, DOES receive it, and then claims they do not and attempt to reverse the transaction, or use a card that does not belong to them, and claim the sale is a fraudulent transaction.

My point being that buyers and sellers should BOTH make sure they protect themselves again fraudulent transactions by always making sure every aspect of the transaction is documented from both sides so if a claim ever comes up you have a better chance to prove your side.
 
What you're saying about Singapore is pretty uncalled for since the pool community in my country is pretty small; let alone the number of people having an AzB account. It's a really rare case for me to know another local of mine that takes interests in cross-border shipments of cues and stuff. My folks like to play it safe and most just prefer using production.

My point about the question is that these days you see more fraudulent sellers than buyers (whether cues or cases) and if you open your eyes and look around, you'll know what I mean. That's why I'm asking these questions. If you're not going to help and just give offensive remarks, I think it's better that you let someone else more knowledgeable answer the question.

Thanks,
Clarence
Club Billiards said:
Weird that this question is coming from Singapore, where the majority of these scams originate. Most cases, the scam is what you're describing...someone purchases an item, DOES receive it, and then claims they do not and attempt to reverse the transaction, or use a card that does not belong to them, and claim the sale is a fraudulent transaction.

My point being that buyers and sellers should BOTH make sure they protect themselves again fraudulent transactions by always making sure every aspect of the transaction is documented from both sides so if a claim ever comes up you have a better chance to prove your side.
Click to expand...
 
Paypal is not perfect. Google "paypal rip off" and many links will come up. I believe they charge for the transaction, and also a charge to get your money out of the payola account. I had one item not as described, I sent it back, they refunded the money. I think if you are using a credit card to fund the transaction, you have more options. Paypal likes to use a checking account and gives you a "verified" or "preferred" status if you do it this way. Not sure about overseas issues. Good luck, John
 
brokenarrowjbe said:
Paypal is not perfect. Google "paypal rip off" and many links will come up. I believe they charge for the transaction, and also a charge to get your money out of the payola account. I had one item not as described, I sent it back, they refunded the money. I think if you are using a credit card to fund the transaction, you have more options. Paypal likes to use a checking account and gives you a "verified" or "preferred" status if you do it this way. Not sure about overseas issues. Good luck, John
Click to expand...

John

PayPal doesn't charge you to take the money out of your account. The fees PayPal charges to process credit cards are in line with what any processor charges for credit card transactions. Matter of fact, for me, steering customers to PayPal, which allowed me to eliminate my credit card terminal, save me money in fees. And the fees they charge users that would have no other manner of accepting credit card payments are completely in line, especially considering very few other companies offer that service.


Kevin
 
I just talked to a guy who bought a cue using paypal. When the cue didnt arrive he sent 3m e0mails then called Paypal. Paypal contacted the seller by telephone and the seller explained that he was hit with the floods they were having where he lives but would send the cue out the next day.
Sp paypal will help and sometimes its not a scam but things do happen too people.
 
arknova said:
What you're saying about Singapore is pretty uncalled for since the pool community in my country is pretty small; let alone the number of people having an AzB account. It's a really rare case for me to know another local of mine that takes interests in cross-border shipments of cues and stuff. My folks like to play it safe and most just prefer using production.

My point about the question is that these days you see more fraudulent sellers than buyers (whether cues or cases) and if you open your eyes and look around, you'll know what I mean. That's why I'm asking these questions. If you're not going to help and just give offensive remarks, I think it's better that you let someone else more knowledgeable answer the question.

Thanks,
Clarence
Click to expand...

I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable because I have been scammed and I've been contacted by several people trying to scam me. Anyone with their information in public view, and anyone who buys or sells products over the internet opens themselves up to that, so in all fairness, both sides should be aware of potential scams.

For me personally, ever time I list something expensive, someone from Singapore wants to buy it outside of the terms of the sale. I've been cautioned by many people that have said that Singapore is the scam capitol of the world. Now I don't know how true this is, but it's come from more than one reputable source. I definitely wasn't directing this information towards you specifically, or hinting that you specifically are out to scam someone. However, while we're on the topic that you brought up, I feel it's fair to educate both sides of the situation that there are potential scams out there and both buyer and seller should be cautious to avoid being scammed.

I've personally been burned by PayPal a couple times on purchases that didn't arrive as described. They recommend you try to resolve the conflict with the seller first, and have short deadlines to file a dispute. Many people use Paypal as a funding source, but I personally shy away from it.

Escrow services have been mentioned and offered on here many times. I would recommend using them, and using tracking and signature and delivery confirmation. I would also recommend only shipping to "verfied" members if you are going to use Paypal as a funding source and only shipping to the "verified" address.

From the buyer standpoint, if you're going to use Paypal, I would recommend using a credit card to fund the transaction, not your Paypal balance. That way if something does happen, you can file a claim with Paypal or with your credit card company. The cards I use have a little longer deadline to file a claim than Paypal, so that gives something else to fall back on. Call your credit card company and let them know you're planning on making a substantial purchase online and ask what they recommend doing to protect yourself from being ripped off.

A good rule of thumb for me is that if something doesn't seem right, or if you don't trust the person you're buying from/selling to, don't go through with the transaction. It's much easier to avoid being scammed than it is to recover from it.
 
In reference to the fees paid, the OP is from Singapore, unless the transaction occurs in Singapore, I believe the international bay rules are used

8.4 International Payments. The following Fees apply when either the sender or recipient is outside the United States.

a. International Personal Payments. The Fee is based on the country of the recipient:
Activity Country Personal Payment Fee when Payment Method is exclusively Balance or bank Personal Payment Fee when another Payment Method is used to fully or partially fund the payment, including a credit or debit card, or PayPal Credit
Sending or receiving* Australia 1% 3.4% + Fixed Fee**
Brazil 1% 7.4% + Fixed Fee**
Canada, sending only 0% 2.9% + Fixed Fee**
Canada, receiving only 1% 2.9% + Fixed Fee**
China 0.5% 3.9% + Fixed Fee**
Germany 2% 3.9% + Fixed Fee**
Hong Kong 0.5% 3.9% + Fixed Fee**
Singapore 0.5% 3.9% + Fixed Fee**
Taiwan 0.5% 3.9% + Fixed Fee**
Elsewhere 0.5% 3.9% + Fixed Fee**
* Sender generally determines whether the sender or recipient pays the Fee. See Section 8.1(b).
** See Section 8.4(c) below for detailed list of fixed fees for international payments.
b. International Purchase Payments.

Activity Purchase Payment Fee
Sending (buying) Free*
Receiving (selling) Standard rate: 3.9% + Fixed Fee***
Merchant rates**: Monthly Sales Volume:

$0.01 - $3,000.00
$3,000.01 - $10,000.00
$10,000.01 - $100,000.00
Over $100,000.00 Fee:

3.9% + Fixed Fee***
3.5% + Fixed Fee***
3.2% + Fixed Fee***
2.9% + Fixed Fee***
Nonprofit rates****:

Monthly Donation Volume:

$0.01 - $100,000.00
Over $100,000.00 Fee:

3.2% + Fixed Fee***
2.9% + Fixed Fee***
 
What Should Buyer Do....?????

How should a prospective buyer of a cue or case etc. proceed with consumating the transaction. Sellers always profess their impeccable hinesty...just check my record etc.... and buyers are naturally wary about sending money, sometimes quite a bit, to a complete stranger on purely on an act of trust. Many buyers ask fro an e-Bay quick sale using Buy It Now....Sellers object because they're incurring added expense, esepcially if the sale amount turns out less than what they were hoping to fetch.

If a buyer insists on quid pro quo, many sellers seem put off and when you think about it, they really shouldn't. I recently spent over $1400 for a cue I found on A-Z but I wasn't about to send anyone that much money without some buyer protection....no cue is worth taking that kind of unnecessary risk no matter how much you want the cue....it's simply being naieve and foolhardy.
.
Banks use surveillance cameras on the tellers to try and catch any dishonest ones and therefore, honest employees aren't concerned. Protecting yourself against potentially dishonest sellers is just common sense and that doesn't mean every seller is not trustworthy....obviously some are going to be dishonest....hopefully a very small percentage. Nonetheless, you still have to protect your self against the mere potential of doing business with a dishonest seller because they do exist...it's a proven fact.

So until a better method comes along, use a quick But It Now listing on e-Bay but realize that the sale price may go up $50-60 but you're protected and that's a cheap when you might be spending thousands. When the sale amount is a lot less, so are the e-Bay listing fees. Paypal fees are what they are and sellers seem to already accepting the cost of Paypal for payment.

Matt
 
Thanks for the information guys. =)

And yes, it will be good if you actually re-verify your sources. Most scams originate from either Nigeria (which is an entirely different continent from mine) or China (Which SINGAPORE is not a part of. I know many people make this mistake. Singapore is part of Asia, just like Japan and Korea. And I can tell you for sure that if you check your map, we're darn far off from China)

Thanks @ jlrowe for the backup ;)
 
Last edited:
REPUTATION AND RESEARCH.

To avoid scams, it is the BUYER'S responsibility to know who and what he or she is buying. If you buy a cue from a "cuemaker" with Zero feedback, well then, you have a 50/50 chance of being screwed, and even higher if I may say.

If you deal with a person that makes cues for a long time and has good reputation then your chances of being screwed is a lot lower.

Same goes with doing business on ebay and aZB. Read the feedbacks.

99.9% is good. 99.5% is good. 98% is okay. 92% I worry a bit. 75% bad.

Positive Feedbacks amount on AZB:

+10 - Good start
+20- Knows and has done good
+30- Up and away
+50 - Trusted
+100 - 99.9% worry free.

Even if the seller is not perfect, read the feedback comments, sometimes it's due to shipping, defects, and other issues aside from the item itself. So research. Avoid it before it happens.
 
I've always been wondering if you've bought something and the seller didn't send the item, is it possible to just call the bank attached to your Paypal to reverse the payment immediately? (That is if you're sure that it's a scam)

It depends on the seller. Good sellers will RE-SEND items if you never receive it in most cases or it was not processed, or even lost and it depends on the item and claim. You will have to wait at least 1-2 weeks before you can claim not receiving it.


2) Situation occurs when the seller suddenly gets guilty and sends the item to you at a much much later promised delivery timing but you've already reported the case. What is the best course of action?

If you get your Item and its good, but late. BE THANKFUL and not pursue anymore, avoid dealing with that person again. Simple. Be happy you did receive something.


3) What if the item is defective and the seller refuse to respond? Can you still call your bank to reverse payment?

It depends on the seller again. A good seller will communicate, a bad one will ignore. You can file a complaint on AZB or Ebay leave feedbacks, which is the whole point of feedbacks. Most of the time a good seller will refund, bad seller will ignore and you're out of luck.


4) Is there any protocol to follow for the fastest course of action (in terms of getting money back & reporting seller) in this kind of situation?


1. you did not receive item after 2 weeks or in reasonable time. 2. File an ebay/ AZB/ paypal dispute, 3. Seller has to respond to dispute 4. If seller does not respond you win 5. If seller respond and proves it was shipped then you're out of luck. 6. If seller responds and nothing is productive, you can gather evidence and if seller has no evidence he has sent item, you win after paypal ebay has finished the investigationi


5) If Paypal credit card payments can be reversed, then why do people still not get their money back anyway?

Credit card does not have money. It goes back to Zero/neutral. You cannot get cash back for a credit. You will be credited back the charges as if nothing was charged. If you bought something for $100 and charged it on your credit card, you don't get back $100 cash as refund. Your account gets nullified and you don't have to pay the $100 dollars. As credit is borrowed so when you use "$100" on credit card you OWE $100. When the charge is reversed, you "OWE" Zero because your $100 that you own is now back to $0 you owe. /B]

I'm not a victim of such an incident but I will love to know what to do if ever such a thing happens to me. I'm sure a lot of people will like to have such information available as well.

Thanks,
Clarence[/QUOTE]


Read my post before this one. REPUTATION AND RESEARCH. I hope this helps you, but your questions are a bit fishy as other members kinda sense. IF YOU'RE A GOOD PERSON AND DEAL WITH GOOD PEOPLE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY. SO IT IS UP TO YOU TO KNOW WHO IS GOOD AND WHO IS BAD. DON'T PICK UP SCARY LOOKING DUDES WITH BLOOD AND AN AXE IN THEIR HANDS, PICK UP A CUTE GIRL WITH HELLO KITTY PURSE. Well, women are deadly as well, but at least they are cute. So make the right decision before you BUY. It's LIFE. Minimize your risks and weigh your options.
 
Thanks for the valuable information again people. I understand it draws attention but I'd rather know what to do when such a situation happens than to find out much later when things go awry. I think I will be so exasperated then to even think about what to do or who to ask.

So guys, don't worry I'm not going to pull a demon out of the magic hat. I'm just very curious about what to do. And I'm pretty sure many other AzB'er ( or at least newbies like me) like to know what to do, but just prefer to avoid unwanted attention.

Thanks again!
 
Last edited:
Club Billiards said:
I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable ...

I've been cautioned by many people that have said that Singapore is the scam capitol of the world. Now I don't know how true this is, but it's come from more than one reputable source. ...
Click to expand...

Do you even know where Singapore is? Or have you ever been there?

If you've ever been to Singapore, I'd be very surprised you hold this point of view.

It's one of the most modern and (too) clean city/country in Asia with western business culture and with English as primary business language. It's definitely not a 3rd world.

Laws are generally more strict than US and, IMHO, enforced more harshly than our legalistic society.

Please don't spread bad rumors without any facts to back it up.
 
Hidy Ho said:
Do you even know where Singapore is? Or have you ever been there?

If you've ever been to Singapore, I'd be very surprised you hold this point of view.

It's one of the most modern and (too) clean city/country in Asia with western business culture and with English as primary business language. It's definitely not a 3rd world.

Laws are generally more strict than US and, IMHO, enforced more harshly than our legalistic society.

Please don't spread bad rumors without any facts to back it up.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know where it is, but have not been there. What I have to back it up is info from sources I consider to be reputable and personal experience. I never said anything about the economic state of the country and that has nothing to do with my perspective. All I said was that I have heard multiple times that it is the credit card fraud/scam capitol of the world and a couple of my personal dealings have backed up that suspicion. I'm open minded and obviously don't believe that everyone from Singapore is out to scam you. Being open-minded though, I try to look at both sides of the coin. I'm not saying this is the case, but the original question could very easily be taken as "Hey, will you guys teach me how to scam a seller?" I sincerely hope and like to believe that is not the case. I've read some of the OP's other posts and I see nothing at all malicious or suspicious with Arknova, so I believe this post to be an innocent question to protect himself. However, in the interest of protecting people from being scammed, I think it's fair to bring up both sides and let sellers be aware that there are people out there that will use this exact scenario to their advantage.

Flip-side Example:

$1600 cue purchased and shipped. Credit card transaction cancelled by the buyer after the cue is shipped and out of my hands. What protection do I have? What steps can I take at this point? What should someone preparing to enter into a similar deal be aware of to protect themselves from this happening to them. It sucks to be out the cue and the cash. Both sides need to be aware.

To Arknova and anyone else I've offended, I had no intention of personally attacking or accusing you. For some reason the way it was worded, that was the first thing that crossed my mind was that it sounded like you were asking us to teach you how to pull off a scam. I'm sure that was the wrong way to read into your post, but you should also be aware that situation does exist.

Again, good rule of thumb for you as a buyer, if something seems fishy about a seller, I would advise not buying from that person. If you're worried that person is going to scam you, maybe best to hold out for a different deal. I'm not saying every deal that sounds great won't end up bad, but there's a lot to be said for gut instinct.
 
Club Billiards said:
Yes, I know where it is, but have not been there. What I have to back it up is info from sources I consider to be reputable and personal experience. I never said anything about the economic state of the country and that has nothing to do with my perspective. All I said was that I have heard multiple times that it is the credit card fraud/scam capitol of the world and a couple of my personal dealings have backed up that suspicion. I'm open minded and obviously don't believe that everyone from Singapore is out to scam you. Being open-minded though, I try to look at both sides of the coin. I'm not saying this is the case, but the original question could very easily be taken as "Hey, will you guys teach me how to scam a seller?" I sincerely hope and like to believe that is not the case. I've read some of the OP's other posts and I see nothing at all malicious or suspicious with Arknova, so I believe this post to be an innocent question to protect himself. However, in the interest of protecting people from being scammed, I think it's fair to bring up both sides and let sellers be aware that there are people out there that will use this exact scenario to their advantage.

Flip-side Example:

$1600 cue purchased and shipped. Credit card transaction cancelled by the buyer after the cue is shipped and out of my hands. What protection do I have? What steps can I take at this point? What should someone preparing to enter into a similar deal be aware of to protect themselves from this happening to them. It sucks to be out the cue and the cash. Both sides need to be aware.

To Arknova and anyone else I've offended, I had no intention of personally attacking or accusing you. For some reason the way it was worded, that was the first thing that crossed my mind was that it sounded like you were asking us to teach you how to pull off a scam. I'm sure that was the wrong way to read into your post, but you should also be aware that situation does exist.

Again, good rule of thumb for you as a buyer, if something seems fishy about a seller, I would advise not buying from that person. If you're worried that person is going to scam you, maybe best to hold out for a different deal. I'm not saying every deal that sounds great won't end up bad, but there's a lot to be said for gut instinct.
Click to expand...

Josh

To answer your question about what steps you could have taken to protect yourself. Was this a PayPal transaction? PayPal actually offers protections to the seller in these circumstances that are not afforded by the standard bank merchant terminal agreements. In order to qualify for Paypal's protections you have to ship in accordance with their standards, but providing you have done so they will indemnify you to at least 5K.

Thanks

Kevin
 
I understand that your intentions could have been mistaken Josh and it's alright.

Actually, I think the best way to go is that if you're doing anything above 1.5k in value, just do an escrow.

$20 won't hurt anyone =\
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top