It's always the Indian Boyz and Girls

[Texas Carom Club]

My final answer... The arrow doesn't matter much. I've never played with low deflection anything nor carbon fiber. I played with both this past week exclusively in the Vegas BCAPL event in the tournament using a borrowed cue. Ran out just fine. The lighting level was low beside the tables and I grabbed my teammate's cue on accident and used it to complete a break and run. He asked me how the cue shot, lol, I didn't even notice it wasn't the loaner cue I was given to play with. I'm convinced, the cue barely matters. Again, final answer. Play with whatever you want. Peace

anything can happen once
means nothing

 

[jalapus logan]

I think both of you that quoted my post here have misunderstood my analogy and what I was trying to express. Those that are of elite skillsets in any endeavor that is done with an item, cue, car, bat, tool, etc. etc. are going to be better than average no matter what they utilize. My true point is their talent will always rise, but it will to its full extent with a top flight cue, car, bat, tool, etc. This is why those that excel choose the best, or what they feel is best for them. Pro mechanics generally will pick Snap On or Mac tools over Harbor Freight. In our world of pool, the money has always been light, the expense of being a traveling professional more burdensome as a result. So many pro players will play with “lesser equipment” that is provided by a sponsor that helps them financially as a result. I’ve spoken with more than a few who privately admit they prefer other cues over that which they utilize, and utilize what they do over what they prefer for no other reason than sponsor support and money provided them.

I hear ya and do actually pretty much agree. I just think that the equipment is negligible on overall performance. But yes, I did drop some good $$$ on this here cue and it is what I prefer to play with for sure. Mostly I view it as functional art though. But why not? It's all for fun anyway.

Side note: Kelly Peterson, aka MVP Cues does great work

Cheers,

Neil

 

[jalapus logan]

anything can happen once
means nothing

A lot of times things that happen more than once still means nothing.

 

[ShootingArts]

Quality equipment makes it easier for a top player to perform. Might not be a must but easier. It is also much easier for a banger to perform with the better equipment. Doesn't mean they have to spend a ton on equipment but they will learn faster with their own cue than playing off the wall. I have found that true in almost any pursuit.

Talk drifted to race cars in this thread. The first race car I drove was a late model. Six hundred horsepower or a bit more, NASCAR legal chassis and a chassis I soon learned how to tune. By the end of my first season the boom and bust of the oilfield had gotten me and I spent a few months making a living off of the race car and pool stick. I could play off the wall and win, I could win with a car in serious need of TLC too. I caught the attention of a local legend with the car. It was shy on paint and body work; like in pool, I met everyone halfway. Rough drivers found I met them halfway, clean drivers found out the same thing. Accidental hits resulted in apologies after races, deliberate rough driving was met in kind. The car was a '57 Chevy, much battered by the end of the season. The track owner and the legend were standing watching cars qualify near the end of the season. When I pulled out to qualify the legend turned to the track owner and said "that old son of a bitch will run!" talking about my car. I hadn't beaten him yet but I had passed him on an open track and I had his attention in my first season racing.

A couple years later I had sold my car to help pay for my new commercial shop I was building. I was offered a ride in a hobby car. A foul handling beast, equally important, the car didn't have the horsepower to get it out of trouble when it got out of shape. Had I started in hobby class like most did it would have taken me several more seasons to learn to drive.

I can go to rifles and pistols and say the same thing. Good equipment made it far easier to learn. I shot the first perfect score in a series of matches with a pistol in my second season with a carefully tuned pistol and ammo. I was doing well with a solid rifle and solid wind flags when I went to rifle competition. It is easier to learn with top quality consistent equipment in any pursuit I believe judging by the wide range of things I have done including on the job.

If somebody was starting out today and money wasn't an issue I would let them shoot a few months then have them buy a solid butt and carbon fiber low deflection shaft to finish learning with. More fun to play with quality equipment and easier to learn too. No sense in learning to play twice. A Dufferin cue off the rack will work as a learner, might want to change the tip and ferrule, I haven't shot with one lately.

Hu

 

[jalapus logan]

Quality equipment makes it easier for a top player to perform. Might not be a must but easier. It is also much easier for a banger to perform with the better equipment. Doesn't mean they have to spend a ton on equipment but they will learn faster with their own cue than playing off the wall. I have found that true in almost any pursuit.

Talk drifted to race cars in this thread. The first race car I drove was a late model. Six hundred horsepower or a bit more, NASCAR legal chassis and a chassis I soon learned how to tune. By the end of my first season the boom and bust of the oilfield had gotten me and I spent a few months making a living off of the race car and pool stick. I could play off the wall and win, I could win with a car in serious need of TLC too. I caught the attention of a local legend with the car. It was shy on paint and body work; like in pool, I met everyone halfway. Rough drivers found I met them halfway, clean drivers found out the same thing. Accidental hits resulted in apologies after races, deliberate rough driving was met in kind. The car was a '57 Chevy, much battered by the end of the season. The track owner and the legend were standing watching cars qualify near the end of the season. When I pulled out to qualify the legend turned to the track owner and said "that old son of a bitch will run!" talking about my car. I hadn't beaten him yet but I had passed him on an open track and I had his attention in my first season racing.

A couple years later I had sold my car to help pay for my new commercial shop I was building. I was offered a ride in a hobby car. A foul handling beast, equally important, the car didn't have the horsepower to get it out of trouble when it got out of shape. Had I started in hobby class like most did it would have taken me several more seasons to learn to drive.

I can go to rifles and pistols and say the same thing. Good equipment made it far easier to learn. I shot the first perfect score in a series of matches with a pistol in my second season with a carefully tuned pistol and ammo. I was doing well with a solid rifle and solid wind flags when I went to rifle competition. It is easier to learn with top quality consistent equipment in any pursuit I believe judging by the wide range of things I have done including on the job.

If somebody was starting out today and money wasn't an issue I would let them shoot a few months then have them buy a solid butt and carbon fiber low deflection shaft to finish learning with. More fun to play with quality equipment and easier to learn too. No sense in learning to play twice. A Dufferin cue off the rack will work as a learner, might want to change the tip and ferrule, I haven't shot with one lately.

Hu

Sounds like you've led a fun life my friend.

My hat's off to ya

 

[maha]

better equipment does not make you play better.

better fitting equipment and more comfortable ones will do it. as long as the quality lends to good performance.

 

[ShootingArts]

Sounds like you've led a fun life my friend.

My hat's off to ya

Thanks! I have to admit I have always tried to make my own fun. Listening to all the warnings about fingers, toes, and eyes I was amazed I and all my siblings never lost anything.

I am not listed as an organ donor. Other reasons too but I always said I planned for everything to be all used up when I go!

Hu

 

[Mensabum]

You don't strike me as "that guy" at all, but I know people and I've been told about others in APA who even on 100% obvious shots, pointing or calling is not good enough, must mark the pocket.

Had someone a few weeks ago who was a 7 ask if I wanted them to mark the pocket, or just call it, and we both agreed, when you get to a certain level, it becomes disrespectful to make someone call an 8 ball, especially when they played really great runouts to get there.

I'll go so far as to just grab the 8 or 9 and not have them shoot the shot if it's a true gimme.
I have that much respect for my opponent. I have people tell me it's dumb to do that, but that's why I don't play in leagues. Habit I've had forever. If you beat me to it, it's yours for the most part.

 

[Frosty]

better equipment does not make you play better.

better fitting equipment and more comfortable ones will do it. as long as the quality lends to good performance.

Kinda splitting hairs but I understand what you’re saying. It is what feels good to you, what you’re comfortable with and allows you to perform at your best. Can one find a cheap production cue that fits that bill? Sure, occasionally they can, because it’s an individual thing and what fits and works for anyone is individual and unique, as we all are.

Can famous maker customs play like ?Oh yeah they can, which is why I have rarely bought a cue I haven’t hit with first. More often than not though, you’re getting a better cue from a quality maker. I mean look at the cues you own, Balabushka, Bill Stroud, etc. You have quality lumber, but were made to fit you.

 

[Lowell]

You don't strike me as "that guy" at all, but I know people and I've been told about others in APA who even on 100% obvious shots, pointing or calling is not good enough, must mark the pocket.

Had someone a few weeks ago who was a 7 ask if I wanted them to mark the pocket, or just call it, and we both agreed, when you get to a certain level, it becomes disrespectful to make someone call an 8 ball, especially when they played really great runouts to get there.

In my Long Island APA league, most of the good players don't do the pocket marker thing unless it's playoffs

 

[ShootingArts]

In my Long Island APA league, most of the good players don't do the pocket marker thing unless it's playoffs

The best reason to mark the pocket all the time. When you don't do it in weekly play it is easy to forget in the playoffs. I have even seen it used as a chickenshit move in weekly matches. Neither player calling the pocket then when one is on the hill or close to it they shoot with just a casual point at the pocket like we do in most play. "You didn't call the pocket." A BS move but the person is within the rules even if both players have let it go for the entire match!

Hu

 

[maha]

yep tournaments are a game of rules. unless you are absolutely sure of your relationship with opponent and have an understanding .

you are within the rules and rights to use every single one of them to your advantage.
and if you opponent gets sharked by them tough luck cry baby.

there is no being chickenshit in a tournament. only in a cash side game do you follow conventional pool room etiquette.

 

[maha]

frosty, yes i do have some quality cues. but most times i shoot with a custom made by an average maker,

or even a ten dollar thrift store cue that hits well. and i play to my speed with it.

and all cues travel in one of those ten dollar, hard one piece cases. and i do have some top cases at home i dont use, as they are heavy and dont fit well hidden in a car. no cue in decades of car life has warped.

all i carry in a case's tiny compartment is a glove, one piece of chalk, and a piece of sandpaper, and or a small scuffer.

 

[ShootingArts]

yep tournaments are a game of rules. unless you are absolutely sure of your relationship with opponent and have an understanding .

you are within the rules and rights to use every single one of them to your advantage.
and if you opponent gets sharked by them tough luck cry baby.

there is no being chickenshit in a tournament. only in a cash side game do you follow conventional pool room etiquette.

To be clear, I am only talking chickenshit in relation to that one match. If neither player is marking the pocket then one pops up at the end of the match with "you didn't mark your pocket" when the pocket is obvious and the standard has been set for the entire match, yeah it is chickenshit! As a long time gambler and occasional or rare tournament player I have to be careful to call pockets in a tournament even when it is obvious. Having seen the move pulled a few times, when playing with a stranger in a tournament which usually is call pocket I make strangers acknowledge I have called a pocket.

I don't think I have played more than two or three mark pocket tournaments in my life. Not APA but directors tired of the arguments as to whether pockets are called or not. I believe the standard is set during the first few games of a match and you stay with it. Raking the last ball is similar. When both players have been raking the last ball then when the match is nearly over one player screams foul, takes the game, but more importantly takes the offending player out of their rhythm. If a player is playing by the common house rules rather than the tournament rules I will warn them once, second time I take the foul. That is giving up a game I could have taken but my preference. If I foul on the first game played or my first win and the other player calls it on me that was my bad. We will play the rest of the match strictly by the tournament rules even if I hadn't called his fouls before.

If somebody is a real jerk, sharking and playing BS games I will meet them halfway. One of my favorites is the ass move. When I get down to the last few balls on the table I will set up so when I bend over my ass is in the face of the person in the chair and the view of the shot is completely blocked by my body, my butt in particular. After the completely legal shot I often jerk my head around to see if the other person saw the shot. A scream of "foul!" is common. "Really? What did I do?" I don't do that except for retaliation for deliberate cheating including sharking.

The early version of Junior Bonner with Steve McQueen, some cuts Ben Johnson is the stock contractor and comments Jr is going to ruin all of his bulls if he doesn't quit blinding them with his ass. Old TV versions usually change that to hat but I have heard it both ways. Blinding the other player with your ass comes from that and makes them crazy especially because cheaters expect their opponent to cheat too!

Off topic a bit but I caught a man cheating on my twelve year old nephew's pistol target. The holes were from .38" to .45" so the one inch square pasters used to cover holes and reuse targets could cross over scoring lines. This cheater taped over the hole to cheat the only child shooting! I made a point of scoring the man's targets from then on after assuring him I would kick his ass if he ever cheated my nephew, my brother, or me, again. I never cheated on his targets but I positioned the pasters where they crossed over higher scoring lines whenever possible! Since he thought others might be as big of cheaters as he was, he came behind me and pulled dozens of pasters to check his targets over the next several years since I made a point of scoring his targets. His son was an honorable competitor and I never messed with his targets.

Cheat me or mine and I will make your life hell at any opportunity!

Hu

 

[maha]

still hu be prepared for any rule to be used against you in a tournament. so no matter how nice someone is or what he is letting you do it may come back to bite you. if its for the set or close to it get ready to get a foul called for anything.

and unless there was someone standing there your defense is to say it isnt so and didnt happen.

just the way of the world is now.

and what sport or contest involving money prizes do they let you make mistakes or break a rule and let you go.