It's the Tip

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
My last comment is that it is not the arrow but the archer.
At this point in my game, I play pretty much the same with an origional Adams Monte Carlo as I do with my $6,600 custom. JMHO
Peace, Purdman

As far as the cue helping your game...if the shaft is straight, the tip is of good quality and shaped right, and it feels good to YOU, thats as good as it gets. I played just the same with a $200 Viking than I did with a $800 whatever. As far as $1000 and up...I think some people just have too much money to burn. All of the above IMHO of course. Johnnyt
 
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Agreed! I also like the same radius tip as the cue ball. Dat be why I am happy to have my lathe. I alays have a near perfect tip for me.
JMHO Purdman
 
Johnnyt said:
As far as the cue helping your game...if the shaft is straight, the tip is of good quality and shaped right, and it feels good to YOU, thats as good as it gets. I played just the same with a $200 Viking than I did with a $800 whatever. As far as $1000 and up...I think some people just have too much money to burn. All of the above IMHO of course. Johnnyt
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I think the truth is more subtle than your statement.

A $10.00 house cue is all that is "required" to play. The whole point of getting a 2-piece cue, is to find one that can play as good as a house cue - while being cue in half. And there is nothing magic about cutting a cut in half. Rather the secret is creating a 2-piece cue, with all of the adornment, that still BEHAVES like a one-piece cue. That is what you are paying for. It takes a cue maker years of trial and error, blood, sweat, and tears to learn how to build such a cue.

Then, if you want to have something unique, or just something customized to your taste, you add on cost. Much in the same way you can ride a bike to get from A to B, but some people prefer a car. Others like a car with AC and power windows. And still others like a big V8 with 400HP. It's all about what you like. And, unfortunately, our likes cost money.

Thus, owning a $1000+ cue is not (usually) about having too much money to burn, rather, it is owning something that fits your style and your taste - while functioning properly. You are paying for the years of hard work and effort (R&D) that go into creating that "perfect" cue for you.

As an example, I always wanted a Richard Black. For almost 10 years I wanted to get one, but I didn't have an extra wad of cash just lying around. So, I saved up the money to pay for my cue. I'm glad I did. I got the exact cue I wanted, and it plays like a dream.

-td
 
Above what dollar amount is one paying purely for the decoration?

For example, is the Predator Blak ($800) much better than the Predator sneaky pete ($300), or are you paying all that extra money just for a work of art?
 
td873 said:
I think the truth is more subtle than your statement.

A $10.00 house cue is all that is "required" to play. The whole point of getting a 2-piece cue, is to find one that can play as good as a house cue - while being cue in half. And there is nothing magic about cutting a cut in half. Rather the secret is creating a 2-piece cue, with all of the adornment, that still BEHAVES like a one-piece cue. That is what you are paying for. It takes a cue maker years of trial and error, blood, sweat, and tears to learn how to build such a cue.

Then, if you want to have something unique, or just something customized to your taste, you add on cost. Much in the same way you can ride a bike to get from A to B, but some people prefer a car. Others like a car with AC and power windows. And still others like a big V8 with 400HP. It's all about what you like. And, unfortunately, our likes cost money.

Thus, owning a $1000+ cue is not (usually) about having too much money to burn, rather, it is owning something that fits your style and your taste - while functioning properly. You are paying for the years of hard work and effort (R&D) that go into creating that "perfect" cue for you.

As an example, I always wanted a Richard Black. For almost 10 years I wanted to get one, but I didn't have an extra wad of cash just lying around. So, I saved up the money to pay for my cue. I'm glad I did. I got the exact cue I wanted, and it plays like a dream.

-td
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I agree cuemaking is an art. I never said their work was not worth the money. I said it won't make you play any better. Johnnyt
 
Jen_Cen said:
Above what dollar amount is one paying purely for the decoration?

For example, is the Predator Blak ($800) much better than the Predator sneaky pete ($300), or are you paying all that extra money just for a work of art?
Click to expand...
Paying extra for a work of art IMO. Johnnyt
 
Jen_Cen said:
Above what dollar amount is one paying purely for the decoration?

For example, is the Predator Blak ($800) much better than the Predator sneaky pete ($300), or are you paying all that extra money just for a work of art?
Click to expand...
Jointed, 4 points, wrap, after that its all fluff.
 
Jen_Cen said:
Above what dollar amount is one paying purely for the decoration?

For example, is the Predator Blak ($800) much better than the Predator sneaky pete ($300), or are you paying all that extra money just for a work of art?
Click to expand...

There should be virtually no difference at all in playability between two Predator playing cues, regardless of the price. The construction is the same, and of course the shafts are close to identical (as long as you're comparing 314 to 314 and Z to Z).

I don't believe there's any difference in playability between any two Schons or Josses either, and probably most other cue makers too. For any given cue maker, they usually use the same construction techniques for all their cues, meaning the price difference from their cheapest cue to thier most expensive one is really just about materials and decorations.

-Andrew
 
Johnnyt said:
I agree cuemaking is an art. I never said their work was not worth the money. I said it won't make you play any better. Johnnyt
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I think you missed my point. It has nothing to do with making you play better. It's the fact that you won't play worse. That's what you are paying for.

And just to be clear, you did say:
As far as $1000 and up...I think some people just have too much money to burn.
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I understood this to mean expensive cues were "not worth the money" since people are burning money to buy them.

Sorry if I interpreted your statement incorrectly.

-td
 
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td873 said:
I think you missed my point. It has nothing to do with making you play better. It's the fact that you won't play worse. That's what you are paying for.

And just to be clear, you did say:


I understood this to mean expensive cues were "not worth the money" since people are burning money to buy them.

Sorry if I interpreted your statement incorrectly.

-td
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Yes your right my statement did say that, but I meant a high end cue won't make you play any better. The burning money part I'll retract for the people that buy them for the art or collect...but not for the ones that think they will play better throwing money on a cue or the ones keeping up with the Jones. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
My last comment is that it is not the arrow but the archer.
At this point in my game, I play pretty much the same with an origional Adams Monte Carlo as I do with my $6,600 custom. JMHO
Peace, Purdman

As far as the cue helping your game...if the shaft is straight, the tip is of good quality and shaped right, and it feels good to YOU, thats as good as it gets. I played just the same with a $200 Viking than I did with a $800 whatever. As far as $1000 and up...I think some people just have too much money to burn. All of the above IMHO of course. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Good grief!!!

Am I the only one who's ever had a magic cue?!

Lou Figueroa
has owned two
 
Jen_Cen said:
Above what dollar amount is one paying purely for the decoration?

For example, is the Predator Blak ($800) much better than the Predator sneaky pete ($300), or are you paying all that extra money just for a work of art?
Click to expand...

I think a few hundred dollars is all it should cost to get a perfectly fine playing plain Jane custom cue, and over that you're paying for artistry and collectability (cuemaker mystique).

pj
chgo
 
lfigueroa said:
Good grief!!!

Am I the only one who's ever had a magic cue?!Lou Figueroa
has owned two
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Here is where I come down.

1. I am a believer in LD cues but I am not convinced that the top cue makers cannot produce custom cues with similar deflection profiles. Predator, on its own web site states that most of the deflection reduction is a function of their ferrules! I am not saying that custome cues ARE as LD as the production cues...I'm just saying I don't know one way or the other because I've never seen any tests.

2. The biggest FUNCTIONAL difference I have felt with my own hands is that certain top custome cues don't have weight bolts and that the weight is therefore more evenly distributed along the length of the cue so that they FEEL lighter. Whether a heavier cue that feels lighter is an advantage or disadvantage...I have no scientific proof either way. I am just stating that there IS a meaningful difference.

3. The points and other "artistic" enhancements may well be more than merely artistic because those materials have their own specific weights and therefore MAY contribute to the ability to produce a no-weight bolt cue that feels lighter than it is.

4. Most importantly, however, any functionality benefits of more expensive cues are probably lost on the vast majority of amateur and some pro players. Here's what I mean.

Create a 5% "benefit" improvement in a driver and Tiger will get ALL 5% of it. But the handicap golfer might get 1% or even 0% of that benefit...because the "benefit" may only exist on dead square hits.

Therefore, for a huge percentage of the pool playing population, paying up for expensive custom cues is not likely to benefit them much if at all.

Having said all that, except for the artistry/collectability factor, Allison is living proof that paying more than a few hundred dollars for a cue does not return a functionality benefit. She has won more events than all other WPBA players combined with few hundred dollar CueTec.

Pretty hard to argue with that.

Regards,
Jim
 
If you have any doubts that a few hundred will buy you a great cue you ought to try a cue from Chuck Starkey, or Blackheart or Varney. All play great, hit great, look great and are wonderful values. True craftsmen doing their thing and not getting paid enough.
 
Geeeezzzzzz. I thought I still lived in the USA and could do whatever I liked with my money including spending whatever amount I so chose on pool cues or anything else for that matter.

Don't let jealousy step into your life. It will eat you alive.
 
I love playing with a quality cue that I know someone spent a great deal of time and talent building. I think that I try harder to play well with such a cue.
Allison talks about her performance when describing how she competed. Our performance is about what we do with what we do it with. Think about it. The cue doesn't make the man but it sure doesn't hurt.
 
bustinbob_99 said:
I love playing with a quality cue that I know someone spent a great deal of time and talent building. I think that I try harder to play well with such a cue.
Allison talks about her performance when describing how she competed. Our performance is about what we do with what we do it with. Think about it. The cue doesn't make the man but it sure doesn't hurt.
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I am sure that no one is suggesting that there is any functional negative about playing with a fine custom cue.

You appreciate the artistry of custom cues sufficiently that it adds to your enjoyment that it may well improve your play.

Others, with equal justification, may care only about raw functionality and are not inspired by the artistry as you are.

Neither postion is right or wrong...just different.

Regards,
Jim
 
Having said all that, except for the artistry/collectability factor, Allison is living proof that paying more than a few hundred dollars for a cue does not return a functionality benefit. She has won more events than all other WPBA players combined with few hundred dollar CueTec.

Pretty hard to argue with that.
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Has she played with the same cue or even the same shaft all those years? I seriously doubt it. She might have spent (or been given) $5000 on new shafts alone. And she might have an army of new cues at her disposal - similar to the way baseball players have a dozen bats in case one doesn't hit right. Not to take away from Cuetec, but Allison might have even been playing with prototype cues that we don't get to use. Or she might have tried out 20 cues in one day to find the "good" one. Of course, this is all speculation, but I don't think it's fair to say she's played with a simple $200 cue without knowing more. Lastly, if the cuetec anaology was true, you wouldn't have other pros shooting with $1000, $2000, $3000, and $5000+ cues. They would all shoot with the same cheapo cue. The truth is, we each have a particular idea of what a good cue feels like, and a simple cue cannot address the myriad of individual tastes. This might include cues that are more than $200.

Also, there is no dispute that you can shoot with a $10 house cue or a $100 sneaky. However, the bare minimum required to play is not the most likely choice for the majority of pool players. Most like to own something unique/different, or at least something to show they are individuals. I would guess that lots of people buy the most expensive cue that their budget will allow, rather than purchase the cheapest cue that will get the job done. This is a natural phenomenon for consumer purchasing, not just pool. Much in the same way people own 42" Plasma HD TV's instead of 19" black and white.

-td
 
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