Ivory in cues and Japan.

[Bavafongoul]

CITES regulations for ivory is easy to find and what country you are in is pretty irrelevant. It's a world wide set of regulations. I know that within USA ivory rules varies a bit from state to state, but generally speaking ivory is not worth the added risk is poses in terms of fines and confiscation. Ivory is also easy to detect and it's one of the things customs have a big focus on.

I’ve been hoping someine would spell out how to obtain a CITES certificate because despite my best efforts to find out
and obtain one, or at least apply for CITES, I haven’t discovered which agency has responsibility or how to obtain any
CITES documentation. I called the Dept. of the Interior in Washington, DC., spoke with two Congressmen from CA and
CA Fish & Wildlife. I couldn’t get any information or assistance in finding out what to do or apply for a CITES certificate.

Does any Az readers actually have a recent , or current, CITES certificate they can post a photo or explain exactly how
they got theirs and what specific steps are required. In all the intervening years since the Ivory ban was enacted by
various states, nothing has been written explaining what to do to get a CITES certificate. Anyone got some information?

 

[Bavafongoul]

CITES regulations for ivory is easy to find and what country you are in is pretty irrelevant. It's a world wide set of regulations. I know that within USA ivory rules varies a bit from state to state, but generally speaking ivory is not worth the added risk is poses in terms of fines and confiscation. Ivory is also easy to detect and it's one of the things customs have a big focus on.

Ivory is impossible to detect and verify age of the ivory other than by taking core samples. If your cue was challenged
by an official while you were traveling, the only way to verify the white stuff in your cue is by destroying the cue. CA
Fish & Wildlife explained you can’t use any light or non-invasive way to confirm the age of the finished ivory in a cue.

The cue has to have ivory actually sampled and they do not just take one sample since one sample could be old legal
ivory whilst most of the non-sampled ivory could be poached (after 1978). The cue owner has zero recourse for claims
of damage to their cue(s) or monetary recompense. You are shit out of luck unless you can substantiate the cue was built
with legal ivory. Fortunately you do not need a CITES certificate to travel anywhere within the USA. If you take the cue out
of the USA, you are at risk without a CITES certificate and at the mercy of that foreign government’s inspection agents.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I was ordering some Buck knives as Xmas presents. Their kitchen cutlery is really excellent and comparable with the best brands of knives. I noticed that if you ordered a blade with an elk antler handle and happened to live just north of
our border in our ally nation, Canada, Buck Knives adds a $93 surcharge to your actual shipping cost for the knife.

Thank goodness I live in the USA. I just ordered 3 of the elk antler kitchen knives as gifts. The Buck kitchen knife costs $149.99 plus tax & shipping. If I lived in Canada, Buck adds $93 to the price of the knife for the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Services Inspection Fee for confirming that the handle on the knife is not from a protected wildlife species. That’s a 62% additional handling & certification fee for a kitchen knife with a elk handle. Imagine if had been ivory? Folks, I am telling you that if you have a cue with ivory, just abide by the law. If you don’t know what the law is, you really should learn it.

 

[Kim Bye]

I’ve been hoping someine would spell out how to obtain a CITES certificate because despite my best efforts to find out
and obtain one, or at least apply for CITES, I haven’t discovered which agency has responsibility or how to obtain any
CITES documentation. I called the Dept. of the Interior in Washington, DC., spoke with two Congressmen from CA and
CA Fish & Wildlife. I couldn’t get any information or assistance in finding out what to do or apply for a CITES certificate.

Does any Az readers actually have a recent , or current, CITES certificate they can post a photo or explain exactly how
they got theirs and what specific steps are required. In all the intervening years since the Ivory ban was enacted by
various states, nothing has been written explaining what to do to get a CITES certificate. Anyone got some information?

Fish and wildlife service and USDA are good places to start.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Fish and wildlife service and USDA are good places to start.

Been there…done that….as well as the Dept. of Interior that has responsibility for U.S. Fish & Wildlife Services.
I also contacted the drafters of CA’s ivory ban. Not a single person has offered any information or suggestions.
It is like some clandestine process that only a few know about. The Internet hasn’t produced a clear path either.

 

[classiccues]

ESA Rule

De Minimus Exception:
The de minimus exemption applies only to items made from African elephant ivory. The African elephant 4(d) rule provides an exemption from prohibitions on selling or offering for sale in interstate and foreign commerce for certain manufactured or handcrafted items that contain a small (de minimis) amount of African elephant ivory. The items must meet criteria (i) or (ii) and (iii) - (vii):

(i) If the item is located within the United States, the ivory was imported into the United States prior to January 18, 1990, or was imported into the United States under a CITES pre-Convention certificate (see question 18) with no limitation on its commercial use

(ii) If the item is located outside the United States, the ivory was removed from the wild prior to February 26, 1976

(iii) The ivory is a fixed or integral component or components of a larger manufactured or handcrafted item and is not in its current form the primary source of the value of the item, that is, the ivory does not account for more than 50% of the value of the item

(iv) The ivory is not raw (see question 5)

(v) The manufactured or handcrafted item is not made wholly or primarily of ivory, that is, the ivory component or components do not account for more than 50% of the item by volume

(vi) The total weight of the ivory component or components is less than 200 grams (the Service does not require ivory components to be removed from an item to be weighed)

(vii) The item was manufactured or handcrafted before July 6, 2016

Though not required, a qualified appraisal (see question 17) or other method of documenting the value of the item and the relative value of the ivory component (including information in catalogs, price lists, and other similar materials) can be used to demonstrate that an ivory item meets the above criteria.

3 years ago I worked with them (Federal Wildlife Fish and Game) and have formatted a sufficient letter with calculations to prove the weight of the ivory. They told me I have an acceptable format for a De Minimus Declaration which is only to prove the weight of the ivory in the cue.

The worst thing is people citing inaccurate information. You are not allowed to WORK ivory. This is Federal and cannot be overridden by the states in any shape or form. You cannot make ferrules, joints or inlays. You may not put ivory into a machine. There is no grandfather clause to this. So when you see a cue signed and dated XXX 3/25/2022 and the idiot selling it says it has the "good stuff" it is technically contraband.

You step up to the table and you take your chances if you continue to do this. I won't name names, but a monster was built last year, that entire cue is technically illegal. Texas does NOT have a law that supersedes the government's July 6th 2016 ban regardless of what the maker and dealer think.

JV

 

[classiccues]

I’ve been hoping someine would spell out how to obtain a CITES certificate because despite my best efforts to find out
and obtain one, or at least apply for CITES, I haven’t discovered which agency has responsibility or how to obtain any
CITES documentation. I called the Dept. of the Interior in Washington, DC., spoke with two Congressmen from CA and
CA Fish & Wildlife. I couldn’t get any information or assistance in finding out what to do or apply for a CITES certificate.

Does any Az readers actually have a recent , or current, CITES certificate they can post a photo or explain exactly how
they got theirs and what specific steps are required. In all the intervening years since the Ivory ban was enacted by
various states, nothing has been written explaining what to do to get a CITES certificate. Anyone got some information?

A CITES pre-Convention certificate can be issued for specimens that were taken from the wild before the species was listed under CITES in order to authorize export or re-export, provided certain criteria are met. For the African elephant, the pre-Convention date is February 26, 1976. For the Asian elephant, the pre-Convention date is July 1, 1975. It is not necessary to apply for a CITES pre-Convention certificate unless you are seeking authorization to export or re-export an item.

U.S. residents may obtain a CITES pre-Convention Certificate to export an item from the United States, by submitting application form 3-200-23. If you wish to import an item into the United States, this authorization must be obtained from the exporting country's Management Authority.
JV

 

[Bavafongoul]

A CITES pre-Convention certificate can be issued for specimens that were taken from the wild before the species was listed under CITES in order to authorize export or re-export, provided certain criteria are met. For the African elephant, the pre-Convention date is February 26, 1976. For the Asian elephant, the pre-Convention date is July 1, 1975. It is not necessary to apply for a CITES pre-Convention certificate unless you are seeking authorization to export or re-export an item.

U.S. residents may obtain a CITES pre-Convention Certificate to export an item from the United States, by submitting application form 3-200-23. If you wish to import an item into the United States, this authorization must be obtained from the exporting country's Management Authority.
JV

Thank you Joe. I should have figured that you, or Mark, would be knowledgeable about this certification.