Ivory in cues, now What?

jayman

jayman

Hi Mom!
Gold Member
Silver Member
As we all know, most top end cues from top end cue makers are loaded with pre ban ivory. But your loving Uncle Sam say's for the most part you can't sell that beautiful cue to a fellow American over state lines because that would be bad and wrong. So how does that affect the market value of super awesome collectible cues? Your all law abiding citizens no matter what the law..Right?? So now what if you want or need to make a sale? Civil disobedience? Suck it up butter cup? Cry like a baby? Break out that closet queen and shoot a few games? realize you just lost your ass? or?
 
Face to face only, unless these guys show up.
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Law is not supposed to be so unreasonable, but . . . I believe that this is just another instance of pool/billiard players being second class citizens, i.e. totally lacking in clout. If the pool cue makers and their organization banded together and hired a capable lobbying firm, this problem would be easily resolved. Unfortunately, as always, we are simply overlooked and outgunned. As some folks are going to soon learn, the problem with the feds is that, if they decide they want you, they do not play, everything is black and white, and they have all the money and resources. Very few people are capable of doing battle with such a juggernaut.
 
Biloxi Boy said:
Law is not supposed to be so unreasonable, but . . . I believe that this is just another instance of pool/billiard players being second class citizens, i.e. totally lacking in clout. If the pool cue makers and their organization banded together and hired a capable lobbying firm, this problem would be easily resolved. Unfortunately, as always, we are simply overlooked and outgunned. As some folks are going to soon learn, the problem with the feds is that, if they decide they want you, they do not play, everything is black and white, and they have all the money and resources. Very few people are capable of doing battle with such a juggernaut.
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The custom cue sales are collateral damage. Nothing more, nothing less. Why would the pool cue makers / collectors care to waste what revenue they may have on lobbying for special allowances. They're going to sell regardless. It will just put the onus on the buyer to take the risk transporting it across state lines.
 
If their cues will not hold their value, much less appreciate, who is going to buy them for a lot of money? They have a tremendous interest in secondary sales.
 
So how is anyone going to know that there is a cue in a shipping box? I would just stay away from USPS for higher end cues in the future. How many Fed Ex overnight boxes are opened and inspected? If you are selling a $3000 cue - just do overnite Fed Ex- that does not give anyone much time to stop a box and open it for inspection.
 
"...this problem would be easily resolved".

Overturning state statutes is never easily resolved. Then multiply by 50.

Even when law can be proven unconstitutional, it is a tedious process.

And the "other side" has partners with very deep pockets. Think Disney, General Motors, Subaru to name a few.
 
Where will confiscated ivory laden pool cues end up- back into a govt. auction of seized property- some of you out there will be looking for these cues in govt. auctions- trying to buy them on the cheap and resell them - Every body is looking for an angle. I guarantee some one is already scouring govt. auctions of seized property looking for the ivory pool cues. I doubt that the govt. will destroy these cues once they confiscate a few- they know that there is value in the cues.
 
mikemosconi said:
Where will confiscated ivory laden pool cues end up- back into a govt. auction of seized property- some of you out there will be looking for these cues in govt. auctions- trying to buy them on the cheap and resell them - Every body is looking for an angle. I guarantee some one is already scouring govt. auctions of seized property looking for the ivory pool cues. I doubt that the govt. will destroy these cues once they confiscate a few- they know that there is value in the cues.
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There is value in firearms and they have no problem destroying them. Including legal firearms.
 
Drugs are illegal and they have zero problems moving them across state lines and selling them on every street corner in America.
I have two cues with ivory, one is loaded and i could care less about what any of the restrictions are. I also have no plans to sell them anytime soon so it is not an issue at this point. To each his own on ivory. Some like it some don't everyone is entitled to their opinion.. I have always sold any cues in person so shipping, insuring or any other issue never arises..
 
You can still sell your cues but it cannot done within your own state if a ivory ban has been enacted.
And you cannot sell to someone that resides in a different state that you than if it has an ivory ban.
There’s a small minority of states that have adopted ivory bans. I live in California but can venture across
the state border into Nevada and do all the business I want. And Las Vegas also draws cue exhibitions.

Now if you live in N.Y., you are kinda screwed since N.J. also has an ivory ban just like N.Y. does so you
will have travel a little further to escape the ivory restriction. But you can sell you cues and the value of
some cues may go up due to the scarcity of cues with real ivory made by some esteemed cue maker. I
betcha a Ginacue using ivory for its joint, ferrules, etc. will be worth more than one that uses Elforyn or
similar material, presuming that the designs were the same or real similar. Ivory just happens to be a very
unique material as a pool cue component and thus it usually commands a higher final price. It has been
that way for decades and the ivory ban that some states adopt only increases the value of some pool cues.
 
I wouldn't worry about it, there is no way to test for it so just don't advertise what it is that everyone knows anyway and the price usually reflects that it is there so no mystery. If you never indicate that it is as such then you can claim ignorance and to be honest unless you have been told or built it yourself you likely wouldn't know anyway. No entity anywhere is going to dismantle a cue in an attempt to determine content at least I doubt that would happen.
 
Biloxi Boy said:
Law is not supposed to be so unreasonable, but . . . I believe that this is just another instance of pool/billiard players being second class citizens, i.e. totally lacking in clout. If the pool cue makers and their organization banded together and hired a capable lobbying firm, this problem would be easily resolved. Unfortunately, as always, we are simply overlooked and outgunned. As some folks are going to soon learn, the problem with the feds is that, if they decide they want you, they do not play, everything is black and white, and they have all the money and resources. Very few people are capable of doing battle with such a juggernaut.
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That's funny. Pool players hiring a lobbying firm. Yeah, that's gonna happen. Look, regs. on ivory started in 1990 and have been gradually getting stricter ever since. Didn't take a rocket scientist to see where things were going. Its not like the super strict 2016 regs. just came out of the blue.
 
Last year I sold a Gina that was loaded with Ivory. I went to Nevada to ship it, and sent it via Priority Mail WITH NO INSURANCE! Why, you might ask did I do that? First of all I feel like putting a high dollar value on your cue is like putting a target on it, and I know from past experience that the chance of collecting several thousand dollars from the post office is almost nil, unless you can supply an original bill of sale, and that might not be enough. They might also want proof that specific cue was the one that was shipped. In other words you are screwed either way if the cue gets confiscated or stolen. IMO, it is more likely to happen if someone/anyone thinks there is something very valuable in that box. I have shipped several expensive cues that way and have yet to have a problem with any of them.

I did sell three high end cues late last year (Joss West, Tad and Prewitt) and shipped them via Fedex, mainly because the mail had become so unreliable and slow, thanks to our new postmaster and his main accomplice. What I've noticed already, after the first of the year our mail service has picked up again, back closer to normal delivery times.
 
garczar said:
That's funny. Pool players hiring a lobbying firm. Yeah, that's gonna happen. Look, regs. on ivory started in 1990 and have been gradually getting stricter ever since. Didn't take a rocket scientist to see where things were going. Its not like the super strict 2016 regs. just came out of the blue.
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Did not say "players". Said "If the pool cue makers and their organization banded together and hired a capable lobbying firm . . . . " All I am saying is that if we want to be treated differently, we need to think and act differently. Where would the gun world be without the NRA?

Also, it never hurts to try something. If you go to a dance and do not ask a girl to dance, you probably ain't gonna dance, but if you ask, not every one will say yes, but some of them will.
 
Biloxi Boy said:
Did not say "players". Said "If the pool cue makers and their organization banded together and hired a capable lobbying firm . . . . " All I am saying is that if we want to be treated differently, we need to think and act differently. Where would the gun world be without the NRA?

Also, it never hurts to try something. If you go to dance and do not ask a girl to dance, you probably ain't gonna dance, but if you ask, not every one will say yes, but some of them will.
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Pool in general is a TINY blip on anyone's radar screen. You really think that pool players/cue makers/etc would have ANY shot at changing ivory regulations? Would never happen.
 
I think we should have a chance to be treated fairly. Pool is only a tiny blip today, but it has not always been that way. In the old days, Brunswick would single handedly protect pool from anything it decided was a danger.

Also, don't forget about toothpaste once it is out . . . It is much easier to prevent than reverse.
 
I have never seen an elephant in the wild. If they disappear just like 99% of all species that have ever existed on this planet I doubt I would shed a tear for them or in any way be affected. Polar bears too. I have never encountered a tyrannosaurus rex either. They used to be around too I heard.

Humans have a way of glorifying everything that seems bigger than us. I catch a couple of rats a week in my trap out on the back deck. Why is no one crying about them? They have feelings too. They are just under foot instead of over head. If elephants didn't want to be part of our food chain they should have armed themselves. Humans are the ultimate hypocrites. Especially soy ones.
 
My experience has been that cues with Ivory have increased in demand due to restrictiotions.
 
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