Hopefully the "rants" are timid enough now to ease the embarrassment
Got to admit I put up some doozies in the past and frankly I'd have been embarrassed to own one of my cases at times after those all-nighter classic go-offs.
Jack Justis vs JB Cases
- Thread starter 9 ball
- Start date
Hopefully the "rants" are timid enough now to ease the embarrassment
Got to admit I put up some doozies in the past and frankly I'd have been embarrassed to own one of my cases at times after those all-nighter classic go-offs.
9ball...
just one man's opinion...
here are my thoughts:
most beautiful case made: rusty melton
most protective case made: john barton
but there are more parameters to consider for some of us, such as;
justice makes very elegant cases. while he keeps to a 'flowers' formula in design, they all are easily recognized as justice cases; the brand. but his prices are imho a bit high compared to others. but then again, his resale value is high
dennis swift is another whom i like very much. his designs and leather are excellent while his prices are reasonable
whitten is another excellent craftsman and his designs are also excellent while his prices to me are reasonable. his structure is novel making it easy to both take out and put in your cue with easy access due to his add-remove system of included height adjusters and tool so easy access can be adjusted perfectly
in the end tho you have to figure out what satisfies you best.
even tho you can order anything from john barton, i find his interiors that so many like, too restrictive and prefer whitten's style internally. other makers also have fine interiors that would not deter me. but i am not a fan of the justice interior for non local traveling [tho many use justice's and have no problem for non local travel]
on the other hand they all make great exteriors and i find melton's the most incredible. but at a price
for me; money no object: melton. but for all others it depends what i am looking for in a case and they all are great cases imho
you can even check john's website. he lists them all, but maybe not rusty melton but he has said and i know personally he admires him, just like the others i have mentioned
that said, you can not go wrong with any of them
enjoying shopping, and let us know what case you get and your opinions
all the best,
smokey
just one man's opinion...
here are my thoughts:
most beautiful case made: rusty melton
most protective case made: john barton
but there are more parameters to consider for some of us, such as;
justice makes very elegant cases. while he keeps to a 'flowers' formula in design, they all are easily recognized as justice cases; the brand. but his prices are imho a bit high compared to others. but then again, his resale value is high
dennis swift is another whom i like very much. his designs and leather are excellent while his prices are reasonable
whitten is another excellent craftsman and his designs are also excellent while his prices to me are reasonable. his structure is novel making it easy to both take out and put in your cue with easy access due to his add-remove system of included height adjusters and tool so easy access can be adjusted perfectly
in the end tho you have to figure out what satisfies you best.
even tho you can order anything from john barton, i find his interiors that so many like, too restrictive and prefer whitten's style internally. other makers also have fine interiors that would not deter me. but i am not a fan of the justice interior for non local traveling [tho many use justice's and have no problem for non local travel]
on the other hand they all make great exteriors and i find melton's the most incredible. but at a price
for me; money no object: melton. but for all others it depends what i am looking for in a case and they all are great cases imho
you can even check john's website. he lists them all, but maybe not rusty melton but he has said and i know personally he admires him, just like the others i have mentioned
that said, you can not go wrong with any of them
enjoying shopping, and let us know what case you get and your opinions
all the best,
smokey
Justis Cases
I happen to love Justis cases.
I own an older 3x6 tube style and a newer Pro Lite 2x4. I've used both for many years now. I've traveled with them via car, plane and motorcycle. For that matter, I've packed the same Capone playing cue with me for the same amount of time I've owned my cases. You know what? I don't know what ppl are talking about when they say Justis cases don't offer adequate protection. I think the worst situation I've typically put my cues/case in is riding the bike. The case is strapped across my back, gets moved around by 70 MPH winds and there is hte constant vibration from my bike. So, after using my cases about a decade, with the same cue packed in there, I can happily say that the cue is not even scratched. Based on my experience, the "extra protection" sales pitch is really a bit of a red herring.
I guess it boils down to taste. Somebody mentioned Rolex watches, as an analogy. I happen to own Rolexes too and wear one daily. It's a nice watch, looks great, is durable and keeps decent time. Is it the absolute best watch in ALL CATEGORIES? Absolutely not. For one, it gains about 1.5 seconds a day, which is normal because it is a mechanical watch. It cannot keep up with a modern, cheap digital watch, in that department. Why do I like it? Well, I love the fact that it is "perpetual" (self winding). It's a bit of a status symbol and it can be considered jewelry ala a ring, etc.
Anywho, regarding Justis Cases, I just wanted to clear the air. Like my Rolex, it may not be the best in one category, but overall, there is not one category it is not more than adequate in i.e. protection, looks, craftsmanship, quality and design.
Eric >http://www.justiscases.net/
I happen to love Justis cases.
I own an older 3x6 tube style and a newer Pro Lite 2x4. I've used both for many years now. I've traveled with them via car, plane and motorcycle. For that matter, I've packed the same Capone playing cue with me for the same amount of time I've owned my cases. You know what? I don't know what ppl are talking about when they say Justis cases don't offer adequate protection. I think the worst situation I've typically put my cues/case in is riding the bike. The case is strapped across my back, gets moved around by 70 MPH winds and there is hte constant vibration from my bike. So, after using my cases about a decade, with the same cue packed in there, I can happily say that the cue is not even scratched. Based on my experience, the "extra protection" sales pitch is really a bit of a red herring.
I guess it boils down to taste. Somebody mentioned Rolex watches, as an analogy. I happen to own Rolexes too and wear one daily. It's a nice watch, looks great, is durable and keeps decent time. Is it the absolute best watch in ALL CATEGORIES? Absolutely not. For one, it gains about 1.5 seconds a day, which is normal because it is a mechanical watch. It cannot keep up with a modern, cheap digital watch, in that department. Why do I like it? Well, I love the fact that it is "perpetual" (self winding). It's a bit of a status symbol and it can be considered jewelry ala a ring, etc.
Anywho, regarding Justis Cases, I just wanted to clear the air. Like my Rolex, it may not be the best in one category, but overall, there is not one category it is not more than adequate in i.e. protection, looks, craftsmanship, quality and design.
Eric >http://www.justiscases.net/
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TheThaiger
Banned
Is it a trip to Disneyland? :wink:
TheThaiger
Banned
For reasons too numerous to mention, this post, and the one preceding it, are posts of the century.
It is an urban legend that Walt Disney's brain was cryogenically frozen. The question is, whose brain should be preserved for future generations to enjoy - Barton's or Coco's?
I think John Barton's Response sums it up very nicely.
My thoughts as an owner of many cases are:
If you want the look of a Jack Justis case, get the Jack Justis case. If you want a different look (other than a Whitten look), then I'd go with John.
My few thoughts on the protection issue are:
Although I firmly believe that John's cases provide more protection, I also believe that there is a reasonable expectation of protection required by a case that Jack's cases easily meet. Further, as much as I like the protection that John offers (if this case falls off me while I'm riding my motorcylcle, my cue will be safe), I feel that I have to be extra careful in putting my cues into the UltraPad to avoid accidental dings. I'm quite sure he's heard this feedback, but if not, that's the feedback from me.
Freddie <~~~ down to using two cases - a John Barton for my travel cue and a Jack Justis for my regular cues
Rusty doesn't have a website. So he is listed here on my site and has been for years.
Cue Case Makers - http://www.jbcases.com/gallery/index.php?g2_itemId=9833
Hmm....
I'll try to be as impartial as possible since John is a personal friend of mine and based on the OP's requirements here's what i think.
I don't own a Justis Case (yet), however i was fortunate enough to review them the first time at John's shop and subsequently at some of my friend's cases. One thing is for sure, the style and workmanship is consistently neat and good and has a quality look and feel to it. I actually like how it looks and for collection sake i would definitely buy one in time to come.
:: Jack Justis ::
Well made, clean stitch lines and over all very elegant case. Like a nice well made suit, there isn't many different variations or style but the design itself is timeless and there's no need to go after anything modern or fancy. Always looking sharp, clean and smart.
Overall the look and feel of the case does feel premium and Jack has certainly mastered this style of case well.
Price of his cases are considerably expensive when compared to JB style for style. However when you purchase a Justis you are not longer buying a case just to store your cues in them, it's beyond that. Like you wear a suit not to have clothing on, it's more a status and style factor.
Delivery and Communication would definitely be Justis' stronghold in this comparison, he delivers his cases within a month mostly and has a definite date on delivery.
My only 2 qualms with a Justis case would be the cue shaking in the cue case (pretty audible when you shake it gently) but that's a personal preference which can be rectified by using a JB interior and the Interior base of the case not having sufficient padding. Again this can be solved by stuffing a piece of foam in it.
:: John Barton ::
If Justis cases are like Fine Suits then John's cases are like Well Made Jeans.
They're all hard wearing cases that will let you use forever, that can used anytime, anywhere and any occasion.
Like how jeans it can be paired up with T-Shirt, Fine Shirts, Blazers, Sneakers, Italian Loafers...the list goes on but one one thing's consistent, it's one tough SOB that you'll feel very comfortable using everyday.
John is incredibly flexible to designs and customisation and he becomes a little wonky when he goes at it.
Take this CHAS case for instance
John didn't have any design like this but i really liked the envelope case that Brian Bonner did and John agreed to do it for me. It started with me wanting a 1x2, then a few weeks later i told him i wanted a 2x3 instead cos i wanted to put my breaker in it too. He wanted to make me a simple envelope style case that's not too big and bulky yet met my demand for the amount of cues i want in. Then a few weeks after i told him i wanted a pocket to keep the butt of my jump cue and other misc stuff...that was a challenge because both of us didn't want to add pockets on the case to destroy the clean look. Well it wasn't so much a challenge for me since my job was to find problems for him.
Eventually John came up with a solution for it all and Chas Case was born.
I'm sure my story is just another one of them in his case building career and there'll be many more to come. I know that because just few days back i told him about my travelling plans and he made me something that can be viewed here .
Prices of JB cases are considerably reasonable for what you get and he has a wide range of cases for different budgets. Now if only we got our cases in time...:grin:
:: Summary ::
Both these case makers are great pioneers of this industry and have certainly contributed in their own ways. I'm proud to own several JB Cases with many more to come and i certainly look forward to owning a Justis case soon.
The case i use on a daily basis is a JB Case, and i'm wearing jeans while i'm writing this. Same pair of jeans i wore yesterday, the day before and i'm pretty sure i'm still gonna wear jeans tomorrow..ok a different pair ofcourse :wink:
I'll try to be as impartial as possible since John is a personal friend of mine and based on the OP's requirements here's what i think.
I don't own a Justis Case (yet), however i was fortunate enough to review them the first time at John's shop and subsequently at some of my friend's cases. One thing is for sure, the style and workmanship is consistently neat and good and has a quality look and feel to it. I actually like how it looks and for collection sake i would definitely buy one in time to come.
:: Jack Justis ::
Well made, clean stitch lines and over all very elegant case. Like a nice well made suit, there isn't many different variations or style but the design itself is timeless and there's no need to go after anything modern or fancy. Always looking sharp, clean and smart.
Overall the look and feel of the case does feel premium and Jack has certainly mastered this style of case well.
Price of his cases are considerably expensive when compared to JB style for style. However when you purchase a Justis you are not longer buying a case just to store your cues in them, it's beyond that. Like you wear a suit not to have clothing on, it's more a status and style factor.
Delivery and Communication would definitely be Justis' stronghold in this comparison, he delivers his cases within a month mostly and has a definite date on delivery.
My only 2 qualms with a Justis case would be the cue shaking in the cue case (pretty audible when you shake it gently) but that's a personal preference which can be rectified by using a JB interior and the Interior base of the case not having sufficient padding. Again this can be solved by stuffing a piece of foam in it.
:: John Barton ::
If Justis cases are like Fine Suits then John's cases are like Well Made Jeans.
They're all hard wearing cases that will let you use forever, that can used anytime, anywhere and any occasion.
Like how jeans it can be paired up with T-Shirt, Fine Shirts, Blazers, Sneakers, Italian Loafers...the list goes on but one one thing's consistent, it's one tough SOB that you'll feel very comfortable using everyday.
John is incredibly flexible to designs and customisation and he becomes a little wonky when he goes at it.
Take this CHAS case for instance
John didn't have any design like this but i really liked the envelope case that Brian Bonner did and John agreed to do it for me. It started with me wanting a 1x2, then a few weeks later i told him i wanted a 2x3 instead cos i wanted to put my breaker in it too. He wanted to make me a simple envelope style case that's not too big and bulky yet met my demand for the amount of cues i want in. Then a few weeks after i told him i wanted a pocket to keep the butt of my jump cue and other misc stuff...that was a challenge because both of us didn't want to add pockets on the case to destroy the clean look. Well it wasn't so much a challenge for me since my job was to find problems for him.
Eventually John came up with a solution for it all and Chas Case was born.
I'm sure my story is just another one of them in his case building career and there'll be many more to come. I know that because just few days back i told him about my travelling plans and he made me something that can be viewed here .
Prices of JB cases are considerably reasonable for what you get and he has a wide range of cases for different budgets. Now if only we got our cases in time...:grin:
:: Summary ::
Both these case makers are great pioneers of this industry and have certainly contributed in their own ways. I'm proud to own several JB Cases with many more to come and i certainly look forward to owning a Justis case soon.
The case i use on a daily basis is a JB Case, and i'm wearing jeans while i'm writing this. Same pair of jeans i wore yesterday, the day before and i'm pretty sure i'm still gonna wear jeans tomorrow..ok a different pair ofcourse :wink:
Lousyplayer
Registered
I don't own a jack justus but I have a jb case. You won't regret getting a jb they are built like a tank. The interior are the nuts too.
... and only one of them needs to sell themselves in a thread looking for consumer opinions....
I too am a proud Justis owner.
JV
If you can't tell by the thread Justis is classy and JB is brassy. I also own a Justis and have owned several others. I could give a much more detailed opinion and comparison on video but that's not necessary.
I do want to make a general comment though on whether the "extra protection" I talk about is a red herring or not. I happen to have pages of stories from people who have had their cues damaged in cases with less protection than mine. And I have stories where people were grateful for the extra protection our cases provided.
I understand Mr. Hu's testimonial that he himself has never experienced a problem while doing motorcross with his Justis strapped to his back. But every child learns in science class that a general conclusion can't be drawn from one sample.
Just because Mr. Hu has never personally had a problem and we have no reason to doubt his word on this, does not mean that others haven't, nor does it mean that one should settle for less when better is available.
Let's all make no mistake here and be open and clear about the game.
Mr. Justis and I have had words. Harsh words. Where we were once friends, now we are not. We are cordial with each other in person but the fact is that we will never be friends again.
Our conflict all stems from our different views on how protective a case should be. Mr. Justis feels that the way he built them in 1989 which was essentially the same way that the J.EF Q Cases and other similar cases like Dennis Swift's were made, was and is good enough. Basically tubes with no padding. The cue drops in and is loosely held in a slightly larger tube.
In 2006 Mr. Justis switched to using a large tube with a fabric divided interior. This type of interior had long been used for cases such as Fellini and It's George and many imported cases. Mr. Justis adapted it for use in his cases. Again the cues dropped loosely into the case with no extra padding between the parts.
In 1991 I started building cases because my cue fell out of a nice tooled case which had the same type of interior as those built by Mr. Justis up until 2006. I should say I rebuilt that interior by adding some padding to the tubes so that I could turn the case upside down and the cues would not come out. My thought was that the cues should stay in the case until I wanted to take them out. This was just for my own peace of mind.
When I was done I decided to try and make a whole case more to my liking. So I borrowed a sewing machine and did make a whole case. An awfully ugly one. But it had the same interior with padding to hold the cues snugly.
This feature has become the foundation for my case making. And it's become a bone of contention between myself and Mr. Justis. Because these past 16 years or so since we have had these forums each time I have seen someone claim that a Justis (or any other brand) case is as protective as ours I have corrected that statement because it's simply not true.
Eventually this led Mr. Justis to confront me on the forums and state some reasons why he felt that his way is better. He even went so far as to claim that our interiors are harmful to cues. Well as they say, "them's fighting words" and I fought with mean-spirited replies that I am not proud of. Truthful replies but mean nonetheless.
But this is the essence of the conflict and why that there are now SOME "Justis" supporters and some JB supporters. And although the situation between Mr. Justis and myself is now calm there are still some such as Mr. Van Buren and Mr. Hu who choose to extend that conflict because they feel that I am worth their scorn.
Fair enough, I have earned their scorn with my relentless publishing of the truth about cue protection from my perspective in a sometimes mean and sarcastic way. So I know that as long as we are all on these forums together they will probably use every opportunity to chastise me that they can.
But at least now there aren't people saying that Justis cases are as protective as ours. This truth at least stands clear to just about everyone.
And furthermore I want to say clearly that Mr. Justis is now using a better version of the fabric interior and this one has more padding inside. It is still not as good as ours but it's much better. I would like to think that my continual harping on the protection platform has had some small influence on the decision to increase the protectiveness of his interiors. Perhaps not but the end result is that Justis cases now offer more protection than the ones built from 2006 to about 2010.
I fully understand that people can have their cues in a plastic bag or a cloth sleeve for 20 years and never get a ding or a scratch. But I also know from personal experience on two occasions that a wonderful and highly prized cue can be damaged because the case didn't provide protection.
The first as I mentioned above is when my Schon fell out of the case as it was knocked off a table with the lid open. The second was when I put a Joss into a case and the bottom fell out and the cue slid through a rin of nail points. Over the years I have collected many more similar stories.
So this is a tale of two divergent philosophies on cue protection. Jack Justis' and all those case makers like him who build essentially loose containers and mine and those like me who build form-fitting containers.
Do your own research and you will find that throughout the world where ever people have expensive gear, fragile gear, the most well regarded cases are the ones with the most protection. Not the prettiest or the classiest, but the most protective ones. Those cases are ALWAYS form-fitted to prevent movement of the item they are entrusted to protect. Always. All it takes is an hour and Google to find thousands of cases and the best of them are ALWAYS well padded.
So to me protection IS the main reason to build cases. I put the same protection in the cases we design for $50 as I do in the cases we sell for $2500. I don't believe that it's enough to provide a loose bag with a pretty leather wrapper. I do believe in choice though.
It's your gear. You can choose to put it in whatever you like. My wife carries her laptop in her purse. I carry mine in a padded sleeve in a durable and padded backpack.
And as I said before there has been no epidemic of cues getting damaged by the use of Justis cases. Many people carry very expensive cues in them, use them every day and have no problems that they report to these forums. But there have been reports of people who have damaged their cues while using a Justis case. So in counter to Mr. Hu's experience stands several others who have had an opposite experience with Mr. Justis' cases. But I have come to the conclusion that the case Mr. Justis makes is good enough as a container. I could probably devise a bunch of tests to prove that under certain conditions the cue in a loose container can be damaged while in contrast a cue in a snug container will not be damaged under the same conditions. But what purpose does that serve to prove what is obvious to the rest of the world? The rest of the world values snug-fitting containers more highly for the protection of expensive gear.
This though is the essence of the whole protection platform I stand on. Many times I have thought I should not care so much but I do. I paid $1400 for that Schon and I was heartbroken when it was broken after falling out of the case. The Joss was priceless and watching it slide through a ring of nails was horrible. Over the years I have gotten letters of thanks from many people who have done silly things with their cases and been very grateful for the protection I built into their case.
So I protect against these things and more with the way I build cases. We are not perfect though and as with yin/yang every positive is balanced by some negative. Our cases require a little more of a learning curve to use, a little more care to put the parts in and take them out. But when the cues are stored then they are stored snugly and securely.
And for me that's the bottom line. Everything else is just decoration.
Sincerely,
John Barton
Case Maker
P.S. If any cares to see a demonstration of the basic reason I build cases here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S21AatdoCs4&feature=player_detailpage#t=160s
Watch this from here to about 6 minutes and you will see where my case making platform comes from.
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Where can i find these $50 JB's, please? I want the protection but i can't afford the big prices.
Right here: www.sterlingcuecases.com - all the cases here have our interiors. Shop around and you can find them for less than the list prices.
To be a bit more clear we design cases for mass production as well as making our custom cases. We don't always manufacture the cases we design but we do create the interiors and teach the factories how to do them.
That's what I meant by saying we provide the same protection in $50 cases as we out in our $2500 cases.
Thanks kindly
XtremEdge
Registered
I recently received my JB Case. It's plain and simple. I expected much and was surprised by the quality of the case. I've never owned a Justis case but i've heard a lot about the quality, value for money. AS far as my JB case is concerned, I'm delighted and dont think you can go wrong with one.
As I prepare to sell the rest of my case collection I came across this thread while researching current Justis case prices.
This was written in 2012. Ten years later the points I made are still valid. With one exception.......
Jack and I made up and I consider us to be friends again. He retired and then came back making simple envelope cases.
We have continued to evolve and innovate. We had 15 employees in our shop when I wrote this. Now we have 25.
We had about 50 custom orders in line and now we have it over 200.
We created an online designer tool for customers to design as many cases as they like and order when ready. No other maker has that.
Our cases are stronger and more durable and more protective. Our interiors are removable and easy to change while still being well padded.
I have not changed much. Still outspoken. Still not a member of the cool kids. Still true to my values. Still committed to building the best case we can every day
So, thank you. Some 30,000 plus cases later we are truly grateful for allowing us to protect your cues.
This was written in 2012. Ten years later the points I made are still valid. With one exception.......
Jack and I made up and I consider us to be friends again. He retired and then came back making simple envelope cases.
We have continued to evolve and innovate. We had 15 employees in our shop when I wrote this. Now we have 25.
We had about 50 custom orders in line and now we have it over 200.
We created an online designer tool for customers to design as many cases as they like and order when ready. No other maker has that.
Our cases are stronger and more durable and more protective. Our interiors are removable and easy to change while still being well padded.
I have not changed much. Still outspoken. Still not a member of the cool kids. Still true to my values. Still committed to building the best case we can every day
So, thank you. Some 30,000 plus cases later we are truly grateful for allowing us to protect your cues.
Always been good in my book JB. Happy for your success, you have worked hard. Innovation, design, value, profit margins, solid biz sense. (CTE we might disagree on
)Fatboy Approved
