Jacked up, miss right

[dquarasr]

Whenever I need to jack up I usually miss right; the higher I raise the back of the cue, the more right the CB goes.

Last night I killed it in 9-ball, played very well. After an hour break I played an 8-ball match. Missing slightly right many shots. Short shots I got away with it. Longer shots missed rattling or catching a rail too high.

After league match I tried to groove my stroke at a practice table, straight in shots. Missed like 80+% CB right.

Got home, thought about it, and figured out that as the night wore on I was slowly progressively raising my elbow. Tested my theory last night and this morning and sure enough, if I raise my elbow, I miss subtly right. Nice, level stroke, I split the pocket.

Besides simply aiming farther left, any tips on resolving this problem more naturally?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ratta]

Whenever I need to jack up I usually miss right; the higher I raise the back of the cue, the more right the CB goes.

Last night I killed it in 9-ball, played very well. After an hour break I played an 8-ball match. Missing slightly right many shots. Short shots I got away with it. Longer shots missed rattling or catching a rail too high.

After league match I tried to groove my stroke at a practice table, straight in shots. Missed like 80+% CB right.

Got home, thought about it, and figured out that as the night wore on I was slowly progressively raising my elbow. Tested my theory last night and this morning and sure enough, if I raise my elbow, I miss subtly right. Nice, level stroke, I split the pocket.

Besides simply aiming farther left, any tips on resolving this problem more naturally?

Thanks in advance.

First try to get someone, who is knowledged- and he then can observe, if you maybe consistently hit to the left side of the vertical axis (in that case the cueball goes to the right- just normal deflection).
If not, a knowledged guy could also observe, if you have an issue with the delivery of the cue (could also be the reason).

Get some help- prevent you to try to fix something, what maybe is not the issue

good luck!

 

[FranCrimi]

Sounds like your stroke changes when you raise your elbow. Check the position of your knuckles on the cue before and after you shoot the shot and see if they're still in the same position.

 

[Dan White]

My experience mirrors what Fran says. I used to have lots of trouble with hitting jacked up rail shots, particularly when hitting them hard. I found that I was cocking my wrist as I raised the cue without even thinking about it. Try looking at your wrist/hand on normal shots and then again on jacked up ones and see if there is a difference. Get to know what it feels like to do it right. The second part of the equation (for me, anyway) is to pay special attention to tension in the hand. Keep it relaxed through the awkward jacked up stroke.

 

[boogieman]

Not an instructor. Adding to the hand position thing. I recently started paying attention to how the cue feels to my ring finger. For me, it should feel as if the cue is balanced there. This stays the same when having to jack up, so seconding the checking that hand position doesn't change. It may feel weird until you figure out the stance (along with hand feel) for jacked up shots, but they really aren't terrible once you get that part figured out.

We all know that jacked up shots can cause problems, error is magnified since it's approaching masse type action. The key on jacked up shots is to stay as absolute close to vertical axis as possible along with a clean stroke. You can use english but your percentages will go down.

 

[dquarasr]

Ok, thanks, all. I’ll work on these suggestions and report back.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Ok, thanks, all. I’ll work on these suggestions and report back.

Aim with the cue level and on your elevated bridge. Then do your best to raise straight up. This will give you a better chance of having your bridge hand in the right place. If your bridge hand is on the wrong place you won't make the shot. Also, be sure after you have raised up that you are hitting the cue ball without side spin.

 

[dquarasr]

Aim with the cue level and on your elevated bridge. Then do your best to raise straight up. This will give you a better chance of having your bridge hand in the right place. If your bridge hand is on the wrong place you won't make the shot. Also, be sure after you have raised up that you are hitting the cue ball without side spin.

Yes, I try to do this. I’ll aim as if I don’t need to elevate, then try to raise my stance with my arm in the same position as if I am all the way down on the shot. But sometimes I need to get even higher, and need to raise my arm more (I’m only 5’5”). That’s when I run into trouble.

I also try to avoid side spin when elevated but I could be putting unintentional spin on the CB. I’ll be more aware in the future.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

To add to what others have said about cocking your wrist, I just watched an instructional video where the guy suggested to make sure that your thumb stays pointed down, if your shots are going off to one side.

You could put a sticker or erasable mark on the ferrule to see if you are twisting the cue with wrist action when you shoot these shots.

Another thing that comes to mind is that your eye level changes on jacked-up shots. I'd first make sure that you're not twisting your wrist, and if you aren't, or if you fix that issue and are still having problems, I'd think about sight-line adjustments.

Full disclosure: I am a "beginner," but I have been fanatically researching and playing pool for several months.

 

[tomatoshooter]

I'd think about sight-line adjustments.

That's my suspicion, either he is not centered on the cue to begin with but has learned to compensate when using a level stroke. As he raises the cue, the amount of compensation will change. That or as he raises the cue, the different posture moves his vision center off the line of the cue. Being left eyed and right handed, I had a similar issue. Because I wasn't moving far enough over the cue, my impression of vertical axis was tilted from top left to bottom right. My follow shots tended to have left English and my draw shots had right English. If I wasn't so low on the cue the problem was less, my eye being 1/2" to the left at 20" above the cue is closer to vertical than 1/2" to the left at 10" above the cue.

 

[straightline]

One thing about shooting jacked up, you can't be making the ball with your eyes. If you try to, chances are you'll do your automatic cinching routine except that only works closer to level. I work on eliminating those illusions by lining up first and getting squarely on the ball. I use test strokes off to the side to make sure that part is linear and then move onto the ball to shoot.

I watch the cue ball only, not just to insure a good strike but to avoid the off angle parallaxes that can lead you to shoot the perception instead of the actual shot.

 

[straightline]

One more thing. When jacked up, the follow through must go into the cloth. IOW you can't follow through at the object ball.

 

[BC21]

One thing about shooting jacked up, you can't be making the ball with your eyes. If you try to, chances are you'll do your automatic cinching routine except that only works closer to level. I work on eliminating those illusions by lining up first and getting squarely on the ball. I use test strokes off to the side to make sure that part is linear and then move onto the ball to shoot.

I watch the cue ball only, not just to insure a good strike but to avoid the off angle parallaxes that can lead you to shoot the perception instead of the actual shot.

I remember watching Allison Fisher interview Gerda Hofstatter when Gerda was inducted into the WPBA hall of fame. They talked about a lot of things related to the mechanics of the game, like stance, aiming, looking at cb or ob last, etc... Allison and Gerda both said that the only time they look at the cb last is on a rail shot, jacked over a ball shot, jump shot, or break shot. Great advice.

 

[Imac007]

To add to what others have said about cocking your wrist, I just watched an instructional video where the guy suggested to make sure that your thumb stays pointed down, if your shots are going off to one side.

You need to keep your thumb pointed down, when it is in the normal upward alignment with the forearm, in order for the elbow closing to send the cue down the on line path.

 

[straightline]

I remember watching Allison Fisher interview Gerda Hofstatter when Gerda was inducted into the WPBA hall of fame. They talked about a lot of things related to the mechanics of the game, like stance, aiming, looking at cb or ob last, etc... Allison and Gerda both said that the only time they look at the cb last is on a rail shot, jacked over a ball shot, jump shot, or break shot. Great advice.

They would know.

Me, I have no pressing need to beat anyone these days and spend the pool time practicing, RD etc... I'm kinda chop suey on the look or don't but when discipline strikes, it's always cue ball last.

 

[FranCrimi]

I remember watching Allison Fisher interview Gerda Hofstatter when Gerda was inducted into the WPBA hall of fame. They talked about a lot of things related to the mechanics of the game, like stance, aiming, looking at cb or ob last, etc... Allison and Gerda both said that the only time they look at the cb last is on a rail shot, jacked over a ball shot, jump shot, or break shot. Great advice.

I agree and do the same.

 

[dquarasr]

Some experimentation revealed a few things. Of course it wasn’t just a simple one root cause.

Biggest contribution to missing right was dropping my shoulder. I tried keeping my shoulder and elbow still and it helped a bunch.

Follow-thru straight is of course also necessary.

Occasionally I’d twist my grip.

And finally, fine-tuning it by looking at CB last also helps.

Thanks for all the assistance!!! Still not 100% but certainly better than when I first posted.

 

[FranCrimi]

Some experimentation revealed a few things. Of course it wasn’t just a simple one root cause.

Biggest contribution to missing right was dropping my shoulder. I tried keeping my shoulder and elbow still and it helped a bunch.

Follow-thru straight is of course also necessary.

Occasionally I’d twist my grip.

And finally, fine-tuning it by looking at CB last also helps.

Thanks for all the assistance!!! Still not 100% but certainly better than when I first posted.

Thanks for reporting back. Most people don't and we never really know if our comments helped or not. One thing --- Dropping your shoulder on a jacked up shot isn't the best idea, but that in itself wouldn't be the cause of unwanted side spin. Something probably changes in your stroke when you drop your shoulder that causes your cue to change it's line. My guess would be a slight twist or pulling your arm out combined with the drop.

 

[dquarasr]

My guess would be a slight twist or pulling your arm out combined with the drop.

Yes, pulling my arm out. When I focus on keeping my shoulder and elbow quiet, a by-product is that my arm stays in; not necessarily cause and effect but if not dropping my shoulder also helps with my arm position, who am I to complain?

 

[dquarasr]

I did some more work on this problem. I video recorded myself. I found a very obvious problem. When I jack up, especially very high to clear an obstacle such as another ball in the way of the CB, my elbow was going left WAY behind my head, not at all lined up with the shot. The higher I raised my arm, the further behind my head my elbow went.

So I started moving my elbow back out over to the right as I raise up, much straighter path!

I've also been working very hard on exorcising the elbow drop on normal shots, and I've been shooting much, much better. This has also helped on elevated shots.

The journey continues.