Jacking up to draw on bar equipment???

mnorwood

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
I play daily with a Mcdermott with a nicely groomed triangle tip, centenial balls and an olhausen table with 860. The other night I went to a bar to play on the box and I used a house cue. Within two racks I was able to adjust to the playing conditions but I was having trouble drawing the cue ball distances greater than a foot and half. Finally I jacked the but of the cue a little and was able to generate more draw.

Could anyone explain why this is the case? I believe it has more to do with the tip on the cue than anything else. Or is it all mental?

Need opinions please!
 
I am no stroke king by any means, but I have seen some people here saying that some top flight shooters advocate jacking up the butt of the cue on thier draw stroke.

I'm talking about a little bit more than level, say ten to fiffteen degree was my understanding.

Hope this helps.
 
If it was a coin operated bar box, the cue ball is usually a different size (larger) and can be very difficult to draw.

Also I played on a bar table to other night with a regulation cue ball, but the cloth was so slow that you couldn't draw the ball more than a few inches. Like playing on carpet.
 
GADawg said:
If it was a coin operated bar box, the cue ball is usually a different size (larger) and can be very difficult to draw.

Also I played on a bar table to other night with a regulation cue ball, but the cloth was so slow that you couldn't draw the ball more than a few inches. Like playing on carpet.
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i agree .the cue ball is larger.i too have a problem.good luck
 
If it is the old style BB the cue ball may be 2 3/8". The newer style uses that same size ball but heavier than the others. Either way the ball weights more and makes it difficult to apply draw. The way to adjust to playing on a BB is in the 8 Ball Bible.
 
Most 7" tables used in bars have a larger cueball and they weigh alot more, that makes it more harder than a standard cueball.
 
mnorwood said:
...Finally I jacked the but of the cue a little and was able to generate more draw.

Could anyone explain why this is the case? I believe it has more to do with the tip on the cue than anything else. Or is it all mental?

Need opinions please!
Click to expand...
I can tell you this much, it's not because the cueball is retaining more spin because it's bouncing more on its way to the object ball. It loses speed and spin quicker when doing this.

Two possible explanations are:

1)You may be getting more tip offset (hitting lower with respect to the ball's inclined equator) when you jack up. You didn't say if you were trying for large amounts of draw or not. For small to moderate amounts of draw at least, hitting lower and slower on mismatched balls will get you more consistent draw than hitting higher and harder. That is, they'll draw more like balls which are well-matched in weight. The same applies to follow.

2)You're getting more spin to begin with. There are various reasons for believing this might be true, such as increased impact force, increased time of contact, and possibly even more tip offset due to the cueball rebounding from the cloth. But I haven't proven or seen proof of this second set of explanations.

Jim
 
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mnorwood said:
I play daily with a Mcdermott with a nicely groomed triangle tip, centenial balls and an olhausen table with 860. The other night I went to a bar to play on the box and I used a house cue. Within two racks I was able to adjust to the playing conditions but I was having trouble drawing the cue ball distances greater than a foot and half. Finally I jacked the but of the cue a little and was able to generate more draw.

Could anyone explain why this is the case? I believe it has more to do with the tip on the cue than anything else. Or is it all mental?

Need opinions please!
Click to expand...

Well your shooting down on the cueball slightly so that may help add extra backward momentum to the cueball. However I would not advocate jacking up the cue because an off center hit is likely massé the cue ball.

I can draw a bar table cue ball back a full table length but I don't have a whole lot of control. I strike the ball just above the miscue point with a level cue.
 
Coin Op's use over sized Cue balls so they go down a different set of tracks in the table and come out the other end. Or they use a ball with a Magnet in it to come out the other end.

Either way it is a MUCH heavier ball "Rock" and is hard to move around with anything except Follow.

On a side note, I can draw a "Rock" so good you think th felt is gonna catch on fire under the ball and I can barely get my cue off the table and out of the way in time. But, you Really got to stroke it.

And trust me, tips and anything else you can buy have ZERO to do with your ability to Draw a cue ball.

It is stroke, plain and simple, just stroke.....

Pool equipment is just like Golf equipment. You know how they say you "Can't buy a Gold game"..........

Same thing.
 
Jal said:
I can tell you this much, it's not because the cueball is retaining more spin because it's bouncing more on its way to the object ball. It loses speed and spin quicker when doing this.

Two possible explanations are:

1)You may be getting more tip offset (hitting lower with respect to the ball's inclined equator) when you jack up. You didn't say if you were trying for large amounts of draw or not. For small to moderate amounts of draw at least, hitting lower and slower on mismatched balls will get you more consistent draw than hitting higher and harder. That is, they'll draw more like balls which are well-matched in weight. The same applies to follow.

2)You're getting more spin to begin with. There are various reasons for believing this might be true, such as increased impact force, increased time of contact, and possibly even more tip offset due to the cueball rebounding from the cloth. But I haven't proven or seen proof of this second set of explanations.

Jim
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I've been suggesting this for decades. Maybe 15° max (which is still pretty substantial). It's tough to argue against results.

I like reason #1. I think you can get more tip offset with less possibility of hitting the cloth. For the rest, I think by forcing the elbow up (with the shoulder), you might be less apt to drop the elbow.


Fred
 
Cornerman said:
I've been suggesting this for decades. Maybe 15° max (which is still pretty substantial). It's tough to argue against results.

I like reason #1. I think you can get more tip offset with less possibility of hitting the cloth. For the rest, I think by forcing the elbow up (with the shoulder), you might be less apt to drop the elbow.


Fred
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Another reason to jack up is, you can increase the spin to velocity ratio, which will draw the cue ball off of the tangent line a little sooner.

Tracy
 
What I compare it to ...

Mud balls are the pits (large cue ball), and take a different finesse to move them around the right way.

I kind of compare draw strokes to gears in a car.

A low level draw stroke is like drawing in 5th gear.
A 10% percent jack up is like drawing in 4th gear.
A 15-18% jackup is like drawing in 3rd gear.

You get the idea. The draw off each gear kind of reacts
like being in that gear. It may grab quick for lower gears,
but it slows down (or does not roll as far) faster on the reverse.
 
You may be hitting the CB to.. hard or to low. A good draw stroke requires a smooth stroke that accelerates (picks up speed gradually). Jack up the back hand very slightly and hit at just below center. In a good draw stroke you should be able to feel the CB rub against the felt through your back hand. Extreme draw is not hitting the CB as low as you can rather you follow through and drag the CB as much as you can. Think of a masse shot as you use the felt to hold the CB to cause it to spin as you stroke through, this is no different than a correct draw stroke. Not drawing the CB this way and just trying to spin the CB backwards will result in an unpredictable draw distances which is not good for position play.

The reason you must accelerate through the stroke is because you do not what the CB to get away from you to soon, and start slow.

Also, if you jack up to much, you will cause the CB to jump a little missing the mass of the OB.

Even with a heavy CB, you can still draw it back the length of a bar table (assuming the felt is not worn down).
 
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