Jasmine Ouschan--the best?

tedkaufman

tedkaufman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm delighted for young Jasmine for winning the BCA championship. And I hope she continues to improve and becomes a great champion.

That said, it seems a number of people who've commented on her game are ready to cede her Allison's place in the sport because of Jasmine's one major victory and her powerful stroke. But let's get real here: She beat Allison in one race to seven. (Which incidentally is a sad way to determine a champion. The winner side finalist enters the finals unbeaten in race to nine sets, and gets rewarded with elimination for losing one race to seven. That's a damn sad way to determine a champion. At the very least, the Loser's finalist should have to beat the Winner's finalist twice.)

To those who predict Jasmine will dethrone Allison because she has better stroke, do you really think a great stroke makes a great champion? If that were true, shouldn't Mike Massey be the king of pool?

The fact is, Allison has been the dominant player in women's pool because she seldom misses a makeable shot, she plays great safes, kicks great, and she controls the cueball with precision no other woman can match. When young Jasmine can match Allison's skill in all those areas, then you can talk about the great benefits of a powerful stroke.
 
Im a strong beleiver in the phrase "the balls roll funny for everybody Kiddo".....


SOme days your on others you arent.......some days you can get out of safeties and others you cant......Some days your opponent is on dead stroke and you are collectin dust particles in your chair..... jsut the way it goes I reckon.



I have no doubt young Jasmin will succeed highly as she progresses and jsut may pass up Allison...... Time shall tell but lets not get to far ahead of ourselves...



Jamie
Jsut a Billiards Observist :)
 
tedkaufman said:
I'm delighted for young Jasmine for winning the BCA championship. And I hope she continues to improve and becomes a great champion.

To those who predict Jasmine will dethrone Allison because she has better stroke, do you really think a great stroke makes a great champion? If that were true, shouldn't Mike Massey be the king of pool?

The fact is, Allison has been the dominant player in women's pool because she seldom misses a makeable shot, she plays great safes, kicks great, and she controls the cueball with precision no other woman can match. When young Jasmine can match Allison's skill in all those areas, then you can talk about the great benefits of a powerful stroke.
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Let's open by dispelling the myth that Allison dominates her sport. Since 2000, the year in which Corr first played an entire WPBA season, the title count is nearly even between Fisher and Corr. I'd guess Fisher has three more WPBA event titles than Corr in that period.

Still, I agree with your post for the most part. What separates Fisher and Corr from their rivals, other than consistently superior offensive execution, is their ability to beat them to the shot. Other than the chances than land in one's lap through the luck factor or through opponent's errors, beating opponent to the shot is chiefly about:

1) the break
2) choosing offense when its called for and defense when its called for
3) defensive shot selection when defense is opted for
4) defensive shot execution
5) downside management in defense
6) two way shots
7) kicking

In the 2005 BCA Open, Ouschan already had a better break than Fisher and Corr, and her offensive execution was marginally weaker than theirs. I felt that she occasionally chose offense where the top two would have chose defense, and somewhat to her detriment. Her defense was just ordinary and her tactical conceptualization underdeveloped.

In the 2006, her progress from a year ago was obvious, with the greatest gains being in areas 5 and 6 above. I also saw some modest gains in area 3. I believe that she still requires a lot of development in areas 2 and 4, and 7, and must continue to develop further in areas 3, 5 and 6.

Still, the fact that her game has clearly matured from 2005 to 2006 is undeniable to somebody like me that watched eight of her matches at the 2006 BCA Open, and about five of them in 2005.

Her great stroke suggests that continued progress in her offensive execution is likely, and if those skills become comparable to those of Fisher and Corr, her superior break will produce more runouts than they do. Still, as you suggest, she needs to become an all-around player to catch the best. I see some signs that she is on the right path, and look forward to seeing how she develops over the next year.

Another hint is offered by the fact that Ouschan broke and ran the winning rack in each of her two TV matches. This bodes well. Playing well when the finish line is in sight is one of the distinguishing characteristics of a champion, and Jasmin appears to have this characteristic.

As for now, there is no possible way anybody could deem her the best in women's pro pool. Oushcan has, perhaps, joined Ga Young Kim and Kelly Fisher as a credible aspirant to the #1 WPBA ranking, but still has quite a way to go if she wishes to mass-produce titles the way Fisher and Corr always have.
 
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sjm said:
Let's open by dispelling the myth that Allison dominates her sport. Since 2000, the year in which Corr joined the WPBA, the title count is nearly even between Fisher and Corr. I'd guess Fisher has three more WPBA event titles than Corr in that period.

As for now, there is no possible way anybody could deem her the best in women's pro pool. Oushcan has, perhaps, joined Ga Young Kim and Kelly Fisher as credible aspirants to the #1 WPBA ranking, but still has quite a way to go if she wishes to mass-produce titles the way Fisher and Corr always have.
Click to expand...

According to the May 2006 issue of Billiards Digest, which lists the "WPBA Rankings" in a continuous 10-tournament cycle, Fisher has won 6 out of the 10 tournaments. Corr has won 2 out of the 10 tournaments and also has two second-place finishes. Based upon recent performances, there's no question that Allison still very much dominates the game of 9-ball.

Monica Webb, who is ranked #3, doesn't have any first or second-place finishes. Ga Young Kim, at #4, has one first-place victory and one second-place finish. Jasmine Ouschan is not even in the top-20 list, though that will undoubtedly change with next month's tournament results listing.
 
Does this win make her a PRO now?

I always just assumed that she was on the WPBA, but she isn't listed. I wonder if she will start to play on it now? I looked through the rankings, and would have to say you could easily put her in the top 10 players.
:confused:
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
Jasmine Ouschan is not even in the top-20 list, though that will undoubtedly change with next month's tournament results listing.
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IIRC, the BCA tournament is not considered a WPBA Classic event and it may not be used in their standings. Even if it were, Jasmin does not play in enough WPBA tournaments to give her a significant ranking.

It would be interesting to know her future plans concerning the WPBA. When she was here last, I believe she was age 16, and I remember reading that her parents wanted her to finish school before she turned pro. Currently, at age 20, I assume she has finished her secondary education. Does anyone know if she is attending college?
 
Rich R. said:
Currently, at age 20, I assume she has finished her secondary education. Does anyone know if she is attending college?
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To the best of my knowledge, Jasmin doesn't have any immediate plans on attending college/university and is focusing her efforts on her pool game right now.


As for her knocking Allison off the thrown as the WPBA #1, well I think SJM pretty much summed up how I feel. She definitely has some areas of her game she is going need to improve on, mainly her defensive shot selection/execution. As soon as this improves, which it will with experience, you will see alot more consistency in her game.

Her strong points, would have to be her break and her powerful stroke which are both a notch above Allison and Karen's. She also has great composure for such a young player, it was noted that she broke and ran the winning rack in her TV matches which goes to show she can handle herself just fine under pressure. I have no doubt in my mind that with some improvement in certain areas of her game and some more experience on the WPBA stage that somewhere's down the road she will dethrown Allison.
 
sniper said:
To the best of my knowledge, Jasmin doesn't have any immediate plans on attending college/university and is focusing her efforts on her pool game right now.
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Do you know if Jasmin has any plans to come to this country and play in more WPBA events? She would certainly be a valuable addition to the tour.
 
#1 in my book!

Well she is the #1 Hottie in womens pool currently; stroke and game aside!
But seriously here, its been quite some time since we have seen a new woman on the scene. I expect her to dominate the field in 2007.

Good luck Jasmine!
May all your rolls be fair.
 
take down Allison .. yeah right... good luck... anyone can beat anyone at a race to 7 . And as far as stroke ... come one ... has anyone really seen Allisons stroke? She almost never has to pull off a big stroke but I have seen her STROKE a cue ball and do sone crazy stuff with the cue.
 
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The potential is there. Will it happen? Who knows? Strictly based on statistics, you'd have to say no. Anyone can say "it'll never happen" and, in most cases, they'd be correct. As far as a powerful stroke not being important, well, I'm not going to debate it, but a person with a powerful stroke, who can execute as well (just being able to draw your ball 3 rails doesn't help if you can't make the object ball), has a clear advantage in a game like 9-ball. To put it quite simply, they just have more shots available to them.


tedkaufman said:
I'm delighted for young Jasmine for winning the BCA championship. And I hope she continues to improve and becomes a great champion.

That said, it seems a number of people who've commented on her game are ready to cede her Allison's place in the sport because of Jasmine's one major victory and her powerful stroke. But let's get real here: She beat Allison in one race to seven. (Which incidentally is a sad way to determine a champion. The winner side finalist enters the finals unbeaten in race to nine sets, and gets rewarded with elimination for losing one race to seven. That's a damn sad way to determine a champion. At the very least, the Loser's finalist should have to beat the Winner's finalist twice.)

To those who predict Jasmine will dethrone Allison because she has better stroke, do you really think a great stroke makes a great champion? If that were true, shouldn't Mike Massey be the king of pool?

The fact is, Allison has been the dominant player in women's pool because she seldom misses a makeable shot, she plays great safes, kicks great, and she controls the cueball with precision no other woman can match. When young Jasmine can match Allison's skill in all those areas, then you can talk about the great benefits of a powerful stroke.
Click to expand...
 
9BallBust-O said:
take down Allison .. yeah right... good luck... anyone can beat anyone at a race to 7 . And as far as stroke ... come one ... has anyone really seen Allisons stroke? She almost never has to pull off a big stroke but I have seen her STROKE a cue ball and do sone crazy stuff with the cue.
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I watched her play in Vegas (in her loss) and man can she break! Allison does not have that big of a break, frankly I'd be suprised if any women have a break as strong as Jasmine's.... I know, Tiffany Nelson. Well I'd like to see both of them timed. Throw Sarah Rousey in there too.

Alex
 
Allison does not break at full speed. She can crake em harder than she does. Infact this last tournament on tv she soft broke most of the time.
 
sjm said:
Let's open by dispelling the myth that Allison dominates her sport. Since 2000, the year in which Corr joined the WPBA, the title count is nearly even between Fisher and Corr. I'd guess Fisher has three more WPBA event titles than Corr in that period.

Still, I agree with your post for the most part. What separates Fisher and Corr from their rivals, other than consistently superior offensive execution, is their ability to beat them to the shot. Other than the chances than land in one's lap through the luck factor or through opponent's errors, beating opponent to the shot is chiefly about:

1) the break
2) choosing offense when its called for and defense when its called for
3) defensive shot selection when defense is opted for
4) defensive shot execution
5) downside management in defense
6) two way shots
7) kicking

In the 2005 BCA Open, Ouschan already had a better break than Fisher and Corr, and her offensive execution was marginally weaker than theirs. I felt that she occasionally chose offense where the top two would have chose defense, and somewhat to her detriment. Her defense was just ordinary and her tactical conceptualization underdeveloped.

In the 2006, her progress from a year ago was obvious, with the greatest gains being in areas 5 and 6 above. I also saw some modest gains in area 3. I believe that she still requires a lot of development in areas 2 and 4, and 7, and must continue to develop further in areas 3, 5 and 6.

Still, the fact that her game has clearly matured from 2005 to 2006 is undeniable to somebody like me that watched eight of her matches at the 2006 BCA Open, and about five of them in 2005.

Her great stroke suggests that continued progress in her offensive execution is likely, and if those skills become comparable to those of Fisher and Corr, her superior break will produce more runouts than they do. Still, as you suggest, she needs to become an all-around player to catch the best. I see some signs that she is on the right path, and look forward to seeing how she develops over the next year.

Another hint is offered by the fact that Ouschan broke and ran the winning rack in each of her two TV matches. This bodes well. Playing well when the finish line is in sight is one of the distinguishing characteristics of a champion, and Jasmin appears to have this characteristic.

As for now, there is no possible way anybody could deem her the best in women's pro pool. Oushcan has, perhaps, joined Ga Young Kim and Kelly Fisher as credible aspirants to the #1 WPBA ranking, but still has quite a way to go if she wishes to mass-produce titles the way Fisher and Corr always have.
Click to expand...


That's a great analysis there. I want you handicapping for me. I tried hard to find something to critique in there but I can't. Darn!

Yes, Jasmin has a nose for the goal line, and she is probably on a par with Kelly F. and Ga Young at this stage. But like those two, if she plays Allison and Karen several matches, I still make them the overall favorites.

They are the two most consistent players, who continue to play well match after match. One thing I will say, is that the WPBA events are far more competitive than ever before, with Allison and Karen no longer a lock to win.
 
jay helfert said:
That's a great analysis there. I want you handicapping for me. I tried hard to find something to critique in there but I can't. Darn!
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Thanks for your kind words, Jay.

Just fortunate on this occasion. I always make a point of focusing on players that I don't often get to see when I sweat matches at the BCA Open. This year, the players I watched most carefully were Jasmin Ouschan and Pei Wei Chang. Both made a very favorable impression on me.
 
I hear that Jasmine has accepted an invitation to the World 14.1 Championship. That should be a terrific learning experience for her.

Does anyone know how good Jasmine is at playing 14.1?
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
I hear that Jasmine has accepted an invitation to the World 14.1 Championship. That should be a terrific learning experience for her.

Does anyone know how good Jasmine is at playing 14.1?
Click to expand...

She has run 100+ many times and had already run 100 by the age of 15, if memory serves. She dominates the ladies division of the European Straight Pool Championships.
 
allison the world beater

I watched allie play in a local tommy kennedy tournament about three years ago at J reginalds in Mint Hill N.C. she lost to stevie moore on 2nd morning kicked over into high gear and kicked butts everywhere including dennis spears ,tony watson ,danny greer,and twice in finals tk from fla first race she won 9 to 4 second 9 to 2.I until that time thought she couldn't touch the guys but I saw a cue ball on a string just like taking ball in hand every shot. Don't get me wrong I think earl efren and busty will still clean her clock along with a longer list of men pros but time and IPT tour will tell, I know i'd trade my game with hers
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
According to the May 2006 issue of Billiards Digest, which lists the "WPBA Rankings" in a continuous 10-tournament cycle, Fisher has won 6 out of the 10 tournaments. Corr has won 2 out of the 10 tournaments and also has two second-place finishes. Based upon recent performances, there's no question that Allison still very much dominates the game of 9-ball.

Monica Webb, who is ranked #3, doesn't have any first or second-place finishes. Ga Young Kim, at #4, has one first-place victory and one second-place finish. Jasmine Ouschan is not even in the top-20 list, though that will undoubtedly change with next month's tournament results listing.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's fair. Allison had a wonderful 2005. I was merely noting that if the last six years are considered as a whole, Corr and Fisher have a very similar track record.

Jasmin Ouschan does not play the WPBA tour. She was, however, the fgold medalist in the World Games at 9-ball last summer. More recently, she finished third in the women's division of the World Championships. At the BCA Open, she beat both of the ladies that finished ahead of her in the world championships, Ga Young Kim and Shin Mei Liu.
 
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