Jay Helfert

[arnaldo]

Very cool.

. . . . Tom Platz trains some guys here and there.
Even though those guys used steroids, it was much more moderate than the guys today- hence why many of them are still alive or lived into their 70s and beyond. Now many of the pro bodybuilders develop horrible ailments- kidney failure, heart attacks, blood clots leading to amputations (Flex Wheeler) and are lucky to see 50- they took things too far with stuff like GH, insulin, and diuretics.

I remember Tom -- great, advanced physique and properly renowned for his massively muscular leg development that dwarfed anyone standing near him during the judging rounds onstage.

Regarding the state of steroid use in the Gold's original gym where I trained for years while living in the marina area (MDR), I was fortunate enough to overhear early-on (and from him directly), the response Arnold always gave to any members who confidentially asked him about steroids. His advice was in the form of a simple question in moderately-accented English:

Arnold: "Are you after a career and making money from bodybuilding?"

Then to the 95% who typically responded with something like: "No, not really, I like the job I have when I'm not in the gym, and I sure wouldn't want to enter any contests or pose up on a stage."

Arnold: "Then just keep training as hard as you do 'cause you like the results." [then with a little smile] "remember, bodybuilding is the only sport you *wear* all the time, every day." "But for you [smile gone] stay da hell away from steroids. You don't need them and dey can hurt some guys!"

Arnaldo ~ Many of us from the old days went waaay overboard unnecessarily with the weight load on squats and leg curls (for hamstrings + leg biceps), and especially bad: *knee-wrecking* heavyweight leg *extensions* on the specialized bench for those. Collectively . . . premature wearing-out of the hips and knee joints and tendons. Lighter weights and slow burn/higher reps both up and down is the smart way to go, in the long run. Your muscles continue to ask for more weight and *can take it*, but your joints soon can't and shouldn't as you age much past forty.

 

[alstl]

Very cool.

I train at Venice Gold's Gym on Hampton Road. Some of the guys from that era are still around. Arnold works out in the morning- he brings his bodyguards, but he is friendly- I've spoken to him a few times. Robby Robinson is still training very seriously- looks great in his 70s. Tom Platz trains some guys here and there. Lou Ferrigno used to make regular appearances but I haven't seen him in a while.

Even though those guys used steroids, it was much more moderate than the guys today- hence why many of them are still alive or lived into their 70s and beyond. Now many of the pro bodybuilders develop horrible ailments- kidney failure, heart attacks, blood clots leading to amputations (Flex Wheeler) and are lucky to see 50- they took things too far with stuff like GH, insulin, and diuretics.

Does Arnold do the Arnold press and if so how heavy?

I worked with a guy who was a body builder but he only competed in the events where the tested. He was built but he couldn't compete with the roid boys. No way to get that big naturally. He took creatine and stuff like that.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I spent time up there in Ben Lomand. My ex moved there and I would go up to visit my kids way back when. I think you're talking about Al Markasky (spell check) who owns that room in Santa Cruz. He likes to play Bank Pool too. Many, many moons ago I was up in Ben Lomand and saw an Ad in the local paper that they were having the Santa Cruz City Eight Ball tournament that weekend. I went down there and won that tournament, even though the owner back then did everything he could to stack the deck against me. I had to muscle up to get paid the $500 first prize. This was long before Al M. took over that place.

P.S. It's beautiful country up there! I used to take my kids up to Boulder Creek and visit the state park up there. God's country!

Small world: you, PJ and me. It was actually Ben Lomond where we lived and rehearsed. I think the year was 1971. It was a combine of a few apartments and studio behind a gift shop on the west side of Hwy 9. I later moved in with a gal up the road, so I'd go up to Boulder Creek to a tavern called the Wagon Wheel, which had several bar boxes, and nothing but fish. It kept me in beer and spending money.

I had an incident there which reminded me of one in your book. I started playing this long haired guy who couldn't beat me but kept playing. He finally threw down his cue and walked out. I went to the bar and sat down to drink a beer. This must have been about 10 P.M. The bartender said, "do you know who that guy is?" I said no. "He rides with the Satan's Slaves motorcycle gang, and he's nuts. He'll be waiting outside for when you come out to beat the sh*t out of you or kill you." Scared the tweet outta me, so I sat there til closing, and left with the bartender who carried a club. The guy had vanished, so I breathed a sigh of relief, then waited a couple of weeks before I went back to that place!

I had gotten around many of the rooms in the L.A. area, but nothing like you did. I loved Celebrity Billiards on Vine. I only went to Romy's 4th & Main once. The billiard tables were in pretty rough shape, and I could tell that I was being looked at like fresh meat. Chopsticks was probably my favorite room. During the time I hung there, Hollywood Jack became the house man. Howard owned the joint and had a real chi-chi MILF wife, Ruth. It was common knowledge that Jack was banging her, but Howard seemed oblivious. He eventually got sick and died, so Ruth took over the room with Jack's help. About that time I left town. But I loved some of the characters in there: Fitz, Louie St. Pierre, Harry Cohen, Gene the Machine, and others whose names I can't recall.

I was also hanging around Big Momma's on Laurel Cyn when Coke had it. He had an apt nickname, because I've never seen a pair of nostrils that big! I figured he probably had a short life, but a couple of years ago I spoke with a guy in the Valley scene, and he told me that Coke was still alive, and had made a bundle in real estate!! Big Mommas held the all night action during the Elk's Club tournaments. Coke would lock the doors at 2 A.M., and the place would jump all night: Ronnie Allen, Richie Florence, Tony Ola, and a bunch of others.

I attended two years at the Elk's World Invitationals. Eddie Kelly won it in '69, and Irving Crane in '71. They used to have a high dollar pay ball game going on after the tournament play down in the Elks' bar room on their 9' table. I'm rambling, but as you say, there was a lot going on in those days!

 

[Fatboy]

I did every steroid in the book for 20 years. Did my blood work and used responsibly. I miss those days. Never had any problems at all, no regrets

 

[HomeBrewer]

Don't forget to get Jay's second book, "More Pool Wars." Just as good as the first.

Dude I loved the first one and didn't know there WAS a second! Thanks.

 

[arnaldo]

Chopsticks was probably my favorite room. During the time I hung there, Hollywood Jack became the house man.

Would Hollywood Jack be Jack Sorrentino, a young regional shortstop in the mid-1960s who wore fancy colored shirts when he played (maybe in imitation of a then-contemporary, astronomically higher-skilled Ronnie Allen)?

Sorrentino would occasionally -- accompanied by a bet-gathering entourage -- enter Red Baker's 9-ball tournaments and won a few of them. Probably not the same guy you're referring to. Long time ago.
"Long time ago" now reminds me of an answer 82 year-old Paul Newman gave to a gossip reporter:

-- "Mr. Newman what accounts for your always-radiant, beaming smile in your Senior years?
-- "I've found the secret to happiness for me."
-- "What is it?

-- "Good health, and a bad memory."

Arnaldo

 

[arnaldo]

I did every steroid in the book for 20 years. Did my blood work and used responsibly. I miss those days. Never had any problems at all, no regrets

Eric: You're a young, very sharp, early 50-ish guy from what I understand and clearly can intuit. Here's a valuable tip: before too many years elapse have your primary care guy, or either specialist guy you use on occasion: whether cardiac, gastro, or urologist, refer you for a head-to-thigh MRI w/ and w/o contrast on a Tesla-3 machine. What they will pick up (and X-rays can't) in terms of incipient, granularly bio-cellular abnormalities in soft and bone tissues . . . (extremely earlier than was ever imagined only ten years ago) -- is truly astonishing and most appropriate after two decades of even the most responsible intake of steroids (or other substances).

Some -- possible most -- physical issues aren't a problem . . . until they are.

Helpfully intended.

Arnaldo

 

[maha]

yep billiard den was one of the all time pool rooms in history. had all the characters and plenty of players that couldnt play that would gamble.

 

[Fatboy]

Eric: You're a young, very sharp, early 50-ish guy from what I understand and clearly can intuit. Here's a valuable tip: before too many years elapse have your primary care guy, or either specialist guy you use on occasion: whether cardiac, gastro, or urologist, refer you for a head-to-thigh MRI w/ and w/o contrast on a Tesla-2 or T-3 machine. What they will pick up (and X-rays can't) in terms of incipient, granularly bio-cellular abnormalities in soft and bone tissues . . . (extremely earlier than was ever imagined only ten years ago) -- is truly astonishing and most appropriate after two decades of even the most responsible intake of steroids (or other substances).

Some -- possible most -- physical issues aren't a problem . . . until they are.

Helpfully intended.

Arnaldo

I have some that before. About 3 years ago and yes you are 100% correct-I need to go again. My heart is ok, no plaque in my arteries. I eat clean, never smoked, zero drugs. Bone density is great.

my concern is my legs are getting very very weak. They were always very strong relative to my upper body. For some reason my quads are getting very skinny and weak. Atrophy, I’ve been to several doctors seeking a diagnosis. No luck yet.

I sincerely appreciate your advice and will copy your post and follow up to make sure I’m out in front of any health issues. Responding to illness is a bad way to live long. It’s a proven loser


kindest regards,
Eric

 

[westcoast]

Does Arnold do the Arnold press and if so how heavy?

I worked with a guy who was a body builder but he only competed in the events where the tested. He was built but he couldn't compete with the roid boys. No way to get that big naturally. He took creatine and stuff like that.

I think you are referring to his unique way of doing dumbbell shoulder presses. I honestly haven't seen him do that exercise- he seems to do mostly light weights on machines. He's had several heart surgeries over the years and I think he just works out to stay in shape now and doesn't push it too much

 

[jay helfert]

Small world: you, PJ and me. It was actually Ben Lomond where we lived and rehearsed. I think the year was 1971. It was a combine of a few apartments and studio behind a gift shop on the west side of Hwy 9. I later moved in with a gal up the road, so I'd go up to Boulder Creek to a tavern called the Wagon Wheel, which had several bar boxes, and nothing but fish. It kept me in beer and spending money.

I had an incident there which reminded me of one in your book. I started playing this long haired guy who couldn't beat me but kept playing. He finally threw down his cue and walked out. I went to the bar and sat down to drink a beer. This must have been about 10 P.M. The bartender said, "do you know who that guy is?" I said no. "He rides with the Satan's Slaves motorcycle gang, and he's nuts. He'll be waiting outside for when you come out to beat the sh*t out of you or kill you." Scared the tweet outta me, so I sat there til closing, and left with the bartender who carried a club. The guy had vanished, so I breathed a sigh of relief, then waited a couple of weeks before I went back to that place!

I had gotten around many of the rooms in the L.A. area, but nothing like you did. I loved Celebrity Billiards on Vine. I only went to Romy's 4th & Main once. The billiard tables were in pretty rough shape, and I could tell that I was being looked at like fresh meat. Chopsticks was probably my favorite room. During the time I hung there, Hollywood Jack became the house man. Howard owned the joint and had a real chi-chi MILF wife, Ruth. It was common knowledge that Jack was banging her, but Howard seemed oblivious. He eventually got sick and died, so Ruth took over the room with Jack's help. About that time I left town. But I loved some of the characters in there: Fitz, Louie St. Pierre, Harry Cohen, Gene the Machine, and others whose names I can't recall.

I was also hanging around Big Momma's on Laurel Cyn when Coke had it. He had an apt nickname, because I've never seen a pair of nostrils that big! I figured he probably had a short life, but a couple of years ago I spoke with a guy in the Valley scene, and he told me that Coke was still alive, and had made a bundle in real estate!! Big Mommas held the all night action during the Elk's Club tournaments. Coke would lock the doors at 2 A.M., and the place would jump all night: Ronnie Allen, Richie Florence, Tony Ola, and a bunch of others.

I attended two years at the Elk's World Invitationals. Eddie Kelly won it in '69, and Irving Crane in '71. They used to have a high dollar pay ball game going on after the tournament play down in the Elks' bar room on their 9' table. I'm rambling, but as you say, there was a lot going on in those days!

I was up that way in the late 70's to early 80's. There's a very cool state park near Felton with a train ride that I used to take my kids on. They loved it and begged me to take them when I came up that way. I went in that bar in Boulder Creek a couple of times and even hit a couple of racks around, but it was in the daytime and there was no one to play. If I had known there was action there I would have come back at night. I always stayed in one of the little motels in Ben Lomand. How good was Harry Cohen? I heard stories about him but never saw him play. He sat and watched me a couple of times but never uttered a word about playing. He was a mystery to me. I played Ray Booth (and lost) and Popcorn (won) at Chopstix. Coke hustled me to play several times but he only wanted to play 9-Ball and I wanted to play him One Pocket. He changed his name to Cole later in life. Pretty sure he passed away a few years back.

Tony Ola was a bonfide gangster and for some reason he really liked me. Probably because I would practice with him for $5 a game and show him a few things in One Pocket. He loved to play pool but wasn't nearly as good as he thought he was. People were afraid to beat him though. You did not want Tony mad at you. If he got mad you better get out of there and not return for a long time. His favorite haunt was Celebrity Billiards, which was fairly close to the Billiard Den, or The Den as we called it back then. Tony always had a pocketful of cash and would bet high on occasion. He told me once that if I ever needed money for a game to just ask him. I never did though.

 

[arnaldo]

I have some that before. About 3 years ago and yes you are 100% correct-I need to go again. My heart is ok, no plaque in my arteries. I eat clean, never smoked, zero drugs. Bone density is great.

my concern is my legs are getting very very weak. They were always very strong relative to my upper body. For some reason my quads are getting very skinny and weak. Atrophy, I’ve been to several doctors seeking a diagnosis. No luck yet.

I sincerely appreciate your advice and will copy your post and follow up to make sure I’m out in front of any health issues. Responding to illness is a bad way to live long. It’s a proven loser


kindest regards,
Eric

Eric: Sounds circulatory, neuropathic, and one other very strong possibility. Stop messing with the time-wasting folks who can't diagnosis the cause for you.

The Tesla 3 radiology report is going to strongly indicate what's going on in all your tissues, cells, and bones. (Btw the bone density reports no matter how good they sound -- don't reflect the nature of the marrow or any issues with lesions of any size, disc matters, etc.)

Get a referral pronto to a Tesla-3. Insist on that unit. It sees everything -- well beyond what other hit or miss testing does. Everything about the state of all the organs and all else in your body, including every cell in your brain. And make sure that the referral specifies the MRI scan as w/ and w/o contrast. (The contrast element nowadays is a very safe form of gadolinium which greatly heightens the detail of every frame of the resulting large qty of images.

They are multiple Tesla-3s in CA and AZ within easy traveling distance. Google for ten minutes choose one or more and get a referral faxed to their respective imaging dept. by any of your specialists' referral desk (after firmly insisting on this when you talk your primary care doctor or directly with any of your specialists you relate well with.

Your primary doctor unquestionably already knows the suspicious trouble you're having with the tendons, nerves and musculature in your legs; he/she may just decide to have his/her own staff fax a referral to the imaging dept. of your choice and a few days later you'll hear from that imaging center's appt. desk. And you'll be first asked 20 or so short template questions about your health background and you'll be told about the earliest or most convenient (for you) appointments they have open.

We can make this a PM conversation if you'd like. Whatever gets you on the right path and blessedly avoids those shoulda/couldas later on in your life. We have enough of those moments every time we compete at our beloved sport.

Arnaldo ~ Here's good basic info about the T-3s superior imaging (ignore the locations being back east):
https://4rai.com/blog/why-the-3-tesla-mri-is-the-best-scanner-for-diagnostic-imaging

 

[1 Pocket Ghost]

Doc, were you following me? I lived a few blocks from Ye Billiard Den 68-70 and in Santa Cruz 70-71. Too busy wandering to be bitten by the pool bug yet...

pj
chgo

Hey Pat (and g-doc/Art).....if you remember me telling you awhile back...in 1969 I lived on Kings Rd. - just 1-1/2 blocks from the iconic action room Ye Billiard Den - I was in there playing most everyday (sometimes with my old pal 'Brooklyn Butch' )...here's a pic of me standing in the living room of that Kings Rd. house ---->

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Hey Pat (and g-doc/Art).....if you remember me telling you awhile back...in 1969 I lived on Kings Rd. - 1-1/2 blocks from the iconic action room Ye Billiard Den - I was in there playing most everyday (sometimes with my old pal 'Brooklyn Butch' )...here's a pic of me standing in the living room of that Kings Rd. house ---->

Yep - I lived 3 blocks east of you on the corner of La Jolla and Santa Monica (next to Book Circus, the notorious gay hookup spot on Vaseline Alley).

You and I looked a lot alike in those days - typical Hollywood hippies. What a wild place/time (I dimly recall).

Like I said above, I hadn’t yet been bitten by the pool bug, but I did play in the Den a few times - mighta seen you all there.

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

Hey Pat (and g-doc/Art).....if you remember me telling you awhile back...in 1969 I lived on Kings Rd. - just 1-1/2 blocks from the iconic action room Ye Billiard Den - I was in there playing most everyday (sometimes with my old pal 'Brooklyn Butch' )...here's a pic of me standing in the living room of that Kings Rd. house ---->

Great pic ghost
love the hair
for some reason i would not have imagined you were a hippy
hope all is well

 

[gulfportdoc]

Ha Ha Doc. You look like hundreds of other hippie kids who used to come into the Billiard Den in Hollywood. Smitty was the best poolplayer of the hippie crowd. He could play me to a draw, so I left him alone after a while. I had an occasion to visit Zappa's pad on Laurel Canyon one time, but I don't remember much (other than all the friendly girls) because I was high on acid at the time. True that.

Also born in 1944. It must have been a good year for poolroom bums.

You devil. Yeah, Frank had rented the old Tom Mix log cabin mansion on Laurel Cyn Blvd and Kirkwood. We rehearsed there in the basement for awhile until we rented a hall downtown on Wilshire. I eventually rented a house right on Laurel Cyn Blvd high up near Mulholland Dr. By then I was playing out in the Valley exclusively. One exception was at the Musicians' Union on Vine at Melrose (Down the street from Celebrity Billiards). They had a great rec room downstairs which had pool, snooker, and billiard tables. The snooker table had a golf game going all day until closing. I was able to make good spending money in that game, which I would try to parlay out in the Valley. There was also a decent room on Van Nuys Blvd in the late '60s. Had several decent billiard tables. The vatos were still cruisin' for weesas then..

 

[gulfportdoc]

I was up that way in the late 70's to early 80's. There's a very cool state park near Felton with a train ride that I used to take my kids on. They loved it and begged me to take them when I came up that way. I went in that bar in Boulder Creek a couple of times and even hit a couple of racks around, but it was in the daytime and there was no one to play. If I had known there was action there I would have come back at night. I always stayed in one of the little motels in Ben Lomand. How good was Harry Cohen? I heard stories about him but never saw him play. He sat and watched me a couple of times but never uttered a word about playing. He was a mystery to me. I played Ray Booth (and lost) and Popcorn (won) at Chopstix. Coke hustled me to play several times but he only wanted to play 9-Ball and I wanted to play him One Pocket. He changed his name to Cole later in life. Pretty sure he passed away a few years back.

Tony Ola was a bonfide gangster and for some reason he really liked me. Probably because I would practice with him for $5 a game and show him a few things in One Pocket. He loved to play pool but wasn't nearly as good as he thought he was. People were afraid to beat him though. You did not want Tony mad at you. If he got mad you better get out of there and not return for a long time. His favorite haunt was Celebrity Billiards, which was fairly close to the Billiard Den, or The Den as we called it back then. Tony always had a pocketful of cash and would bet high on occasion. He told me once that if I ever needed money for a game to just ask him. I never did though.

Harry "The Hook" Cohen was all business, all the time. He'd joke once in a great while, but was usually very serious; and a chain smoker. He rarely played unless he had the lock down nuts. And everyone knew that. He was very knowledgeable about most games, even 3C. I assume he was from NY, although he'd spent time in Miami while the good players wintered there. Freddie Bentivenga hated him, but I got along fine with him. He was quite a bit older than I, and he'd give me a tip once in a great while. I suspect he was a good handicapper with the ponies. He always had a racing form in the back pocket of his Bermuda shorts. I think that he'd done "business" with so many people that he became a little paranoid.

I never knew that Tony Ola was a gangster, although I can believe it. He was kind of an intimidating guy, although not real bright. He was in Chopsticks once in awhile, but hung out quite a bit at Big Mommas. I watched Ronnie Allen give him 4 no-count, free handed one night, and rob him. That may have been in the same night that RA and R. Florence got into a fist fight over a 1P match. Neither guy won..

 

[gulfportdoc]

Would Hollywood Jack be Jack Sorrentino, a young regional shortstop in the mid-1960s who wore fancy colored shirts when he played (maybe in imitation of a then-contemporary, astronomically higher-skilled Ronnie Allen)?

Sorrentino would occasionally -- accompanied by a bet-gathering entourage -- enter Red Baker's 9-ball tournaments and won a few of them. Probably not the same guy you're referring to. Long time ago.
"Long time ago" now reminds me of an answer 82 year-old Paul Newman gave to a gossip reporter:

-- "Mr. Newman what accounts for your always-radiant, beaming smile in your Senior years?
-- "I've found the secret to happiness for me."
-- "What is it?

-- "Good health, and a bad memory."

Arnaldo

Arnaldo-- No, Hollywood Jack's name was Jack Gabriele, an L.A. legend. You simply could not talk with Jack without liking him. He was one of a kind. Here's a picture of him in later years. Looks a little Like Tony Bennett, don't you think?

Photo by Don Henderson. Article: http://www.onepocket.org/HollywoodJack.htm

 

[middleofnowhere]

Harry "The Hook" Cohen was all business, all the time. He'd joke once in a great while, but was usually very serious; and a chain smoker. He rarely played unless he had the lock down nuts. And everyone knew that. He was very knowledgeable about most games, even 3C. I assume he was from NY, although he'd spent time in Miami while the good players wintered there. Freddie Bentivenga hated him, but I got along fine with him. He was quite a bit older than I, and he'd give me a tip once in a great while. I suspect he was a good handicapper with the ponies. He always had a racing form in the back pocket of his Bermuda shorts. I think that he'd done "business" with so many people that he became a little paranoid.

I never knew that Tony Ola was a gangster, although I can believe it. He was kind of an intimidating guy, although not real bright. He was in Chopsticks once in awhile, but hung out quite a bit at Big Mommas. I watched Ronnie Allen give him 4 no-count, free handed one night, and rob him. That may have been in the same night that RA and R. Florence got into a fist fight over a 1P match. Neither guy won..

You mentioned Harry Cohen if I remember right he actually died in the Congress billiards in Miami. I used to play him once in awhile on the 5x10. It seemed like everything with him was always a gimmick.

Most of those people you guys are talking about I guess are West Coast and I never heard of them other than the name players. Although I did know Harry and I knew Ray Booth very well.
Very much enjoying listening in on your conversation.

 

[rexus31]

This is turning into one of my all time favorite threads. Keep it coming, gents!