Are you stating you believe that CP2CP requires no adjustments once both contact points have been firmly established?
If so, do you also believe that ghost ball requires no adjustments?
joe tucker aiming system
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
Are you stating you believe that CP2CP requires no adjustments once both contact points have been firmly established?
If so, do you also believe that ghost ball requires no adjustments?
Lets assume you have a dead straight in shot to a corner pocket. Pick any length of shot you want, doesn't matter. You know for a fact it's a center ball hit on the OB with a center ball hit on the CB and you don't need a laser pointer to show it.
The tip of your cue, ferrule and shaft is aimed dead center to center on both balls and the edges are totally in line like a full eclipse of the sun. (we can eliminate this part if you want to talk pure CP2CP)
What adjustments would you need to make unless you knew from experience your stroke imperfection makes you miss slightly left or slightly right so you adjusted for it by aiming slightly left or right to compensate? (in the long run it would probably be better to get some lessons for a straighter stroke)
With Joe Tucker's number system which links up the shot to the angle with the numbers and is quite accurate for all shots and is CP2CP, you tell me when, where, what and why adjustments are needed.
Even without his system when you pick your own CP on the OB and attempt to determine where it is on the front of the CB, if it's correct what are you adjusting and why?
As far as ghost ball goes, ask Duckie. He's the expert. I don't use it and never have so I don't know or pretend to know.
For those selected cuts.
No more than contact point, parallel lines, equal opposite, double offset/overlap, etc.
pj
chgo
Joe's system is equal opposite as well as contact point. So does it require LESS adjustments or no adjustments? There's also "fudge factor" allowance in Joe's system for those possible "tweener" angles as well as CP2CP that allows for NO adjustment which is pocket size and speed.
Last edited:
Yes, the angle tells you what numbers to use for the correct CP2CP aiming.
There will be tweener shots. I still can't make the basic angles yet, so I'll let you know if I get good enough to use them.
Best,
Mike
i took lessons from a pro who used tuckers system for a while
and recommended it highly
he told me that joe was going to us more numbers but thought it would be too confusing
the pro told me that just like joe had a 4 1/2
there were half number points /lines for all the numbers
fwiw he was a ghoast ball aimer
and recommended it highly
he told me that joe was going to us more numbers but thought it would be too confusing
the pro told me that just like joe had a 4 1/2
there were half number points /lines for all the numbers
fwiw he was a ghoast ball aimer
Last edited:
Than what?
If "adjustments" means using practiced estimation, all aiming methods are pretty much all "adjustment".
For instance, with Tucker's you have to learn to estimate:
- which "system" contact point is closest
- what kind of adjustment from that is needed
- how to hit it with the CB
Aiming systems aren't different in the amount of practiced estimation used with each; they're only conceptually different. The way one is described resonates better with you, so that's the one you use.
pj
chgo
It not only resonates better with me but also produces greater results with a higher percentage of balls made and no adjustments. How can that be? Hard work and practice to see and align what needs to be seen and aligned. It could probably hold true with Joe's as well if a player dedicated himself to it as Joe has. He can flat out play!
Who knows, maybe many years ago I may have deviated either by eye line or stance
when learning to use it, but now it's internalized and coincides with the instructions which doesn't cause me to adjust each and every time I take a shot. I trust what I'm doing not second guessing it with adjustments because I've hit the million balls to know what the results will be.
Do you even have his entire package of balls, instructions, table grid diagrams with ball locations, and the flat numbered card board balls that can be used on a kitchen table or desk to practice anywhere at any time? When will you be getting on the table to work with the balls to see if your results corroborate Mike's or come up with something different?
Last edited:
If I've gotten good at aiming by feel does that mean I'm not estimating any more? If it does mean that, then how does aiming by feel differ from any other method?
pj
chgo
What is feel? Are you Stevie Wonder?
Aiming is visual. How did you learn to aim with your eyes? What were you linking and seeing to connect the dots? Last I knew you used contact points and learned how to play pool with it which needs to be seen and there are instructions telling you how to do it. Very easy, cut and dry.
You probably did good at aiming by feel like we all did but FEEL has to do with "feeling" the difference between a good straight stroke vs. a crappy jerk or crooked stroke to deliver the cue to what you were seeing.
Last edited:
I take these disks and balance them on top of the balls. They actually sit right on the object ball and cue ball easily. I can see the corresponding numbers between the balls and stroke on that line.
After the stroke, like a magician pulling a table cloth out from under a dinner place setting, the disks fall to the table bed. If I miss, they mark the shot and I set it up again. :thumbup: That's not in the instruction booklet.
Best,
Mike
OK, you just don't get this stuff.
pj <- didn't think it was worth the effort
chgo
No, you just don't get this stuff and I FEEL exactly the same way as you, it's not worth the effort and nobody else has after 2 decades.
Last edited:
LMAO. I love it. Did you learn that by FEEL or trial and error after some creative thinking? They call it the Carbonaro Effect.
Last edited:
EVERY aiming system requires some adjustments for speed and spin.
Ghost ball and CP 2 CP, to me have similar kinds of adjustments, which is that I choose which part of the pocket or rail I'm going to aim at before the contact point/ghostball area is chosen, based on experience. If the cut angle isn't to steep, or I'm really powering the ball, then the shot might need no adjustment, while a slow half ball stun might require a lot of adjustment along with slow shots with lots of angle to them.
Joe Tucker makes fairly detailed accounts of adjustments in his material, in fact I'd say that he is way ahead of certain others in that department. He of course, has the numbers to help him. The SEE system also has detailed instructions for adjustments, and may be the best system for people who have the most trouble with this.
It's when systems claim to require NO adjustments at all, or makes no real effort to explain the adjustments needed, you should be wary of them.
Joe's system gives you the cue ball contact point. My head position is lined up for a fractional aiming point. The overlaps are consistent between cue ball and object ball.
After a couple of weeks, I make less adjustment every day. The first day it literally took me close to an hour to gauge and shoot the first rack. Tonight, I averaged a few minutes with some adjusting and rechecking. Mainly because my eyes wanted to argue over the setup the overlaps were saying to use. My visuals were wrong most of the time.
Those training balls are a must have for CP2CP aiming.
Best,
Mike
After a couple of weeks, I make less adjustment every day. The first day it literally took me close to an hour to gauge and shoot the first rack. Tonight, I averaged a few minutes with some adjusting and rechecking. Mainly because my eyes wanted to argue over the setup the overlaps were saying to use. My visuals were wrong most of the time.
Those training balls are a must have for CP2CP aiming.
Best,
Mike
I couldn't quite get the hang of locating the numbers on the front of the cue ball. I even turned the cue ball around so the numbers would face me and I could estimate where they were at on the front. A clear cue ball would be the answer.
It was definitely trial and error! I was spending too much time walking around to the front of the cue ball and back 4 times to get my bearing. It worked though. In a couple of weeks I'll be playing at full speed ahead.
Best,
Mike
It was definitely trial and error! I was spending too much time walking around to the front of the cue ball and back 4 times to get my bearing. It worked though. In a couple of weeks I'll be playing at full speed ahead.
Best,
Mike
Once you're playing full speed with this just like CTE, the Carbonaro Effect will have kicked in. THAT is the missing ingredient naysayers don't know about but we do. LMAO
(you know what I'm talking about)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoWpcayqrgU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsY5SQ9s7K8&index=15&list=RDVoWpcayqrgU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hZLkpc0c7Q
Last edited:
As far as CP2CP/equal/opposite overlap/double distance, etc goes (without the use of numbered balls):
Finding the CP on the OB is easy........one old method beginners use is by pointing the cue through the OB at center pocket. It helps if this point is on or very near the edge of a strip or somewhere on the number on the ball. It always stays the same.
The hard part is finding the CP on the CB. It is, BTW, on the opposite side of the CB that we're facing. Usually one will use the equal/opposite overlap method.
But the CP on the CB can move, depending on our perspective at address. Any slight movement of the vision center right or left by the body or head at address will change what the perceived eq./opp. overlap should be.
Which brings up the question, where should we be looking (our vision center) at address to be able to correctly establish the CP on the CB..........down what looks like the shot line? (ghostball), CTC?, etc.
Wherever our starting point is, if it's wrong then you're doomed.
Pat Johnson developed the "LIZARD HEAD MOVE" which goes back and forth (also probably up and down) to HOME IN on the two contact points with incredible accuracy. Maybe you should contact him for a lesson. I hear that he rarely if ever misses a shot.
Here's his description: "
I also like to move my head back and forth to sight down more than one of the available lines, including cue ball path, just for cross reference
(I might look a little like a lizard doing this). . I like to know that my stick is
pointing where I want it to, but "sight down the stick" doesn't work
by itself for me."
Pat Johnson
Chi
Last edited: