John and Lou, the plain truth

lfigueroa said:
Once again, here is his original post:

"This match happened because two guys shot off their mouths on the internet. Plain and simple. It is shameful behavior. A whole pack of people piled on too, which made it worse. There is nothing here to be proud of, nothing noble. Does either guy really seem like they can afford to gamble 10K or 20K on a pool match? Not to me they don't.

Furthermore, any of you so-called gamblers who respect someone for gambling their hard earned money, their family's savings or children's potential college fund on a pool game needs to seriously examine their values. There is a culture among gamblers that talks of respect for what is basically reckless, self-destructive behavior. Do we praise someone who falls down stinking drunk every night? Yet we praise someone who gambles large?

I gamble for entertainment, just enough to sweat. No harm in that. We are fathers, workers, employers, husbands. At some point, as mature men, we need to accept that our actions affect a lot of people who depend on us and act responsibly We shouldn't let our ego's dictate our actions. I watched the match and enjoyed it. But let's not forget why this match really took place.

The plain truth is, it was pitiful."


Last I checked, giving green means you approve of his post. So, if you approve of him sanctimoniously sticking his nose into someone else's wallet with not a scintilla of proof that either participant made a bet that in any way jeopardized the welfare of their respective families, then yes.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Just because I approve of a post enough to send a green to the guy who made it doesn't mean I have to accept every last blessed word the guy wrote. So, to make it clearer, the above portions of his post that I do agree with are highlighted in "Aguzin Blue" just for you.

So, you see, I have no particular gripe with how you spend your money, just that it proves zero me to regarding how much heart you have. You're a small time recreational gambler, just like most of the rest of us here. To suddenly step up from $20/game to a $10K race to nine is humorous to me.

It's like one of the guys in my area who have bagged all 46 high peak peaks in the Adirondacks suddenly says, "I think I'll try Everest next." Well, these days there are guys who can actually get you up Everest if you are willing to spend an absurd amount of time and money, but that don't make you a real expedition climber. Does the word "poser" fit?

Perhaps that's a bit harsh. You still have to do the climb, after all. But guess who's gonna being calling his Mama's name when things suddenly go wrong? The guide who gets you back down off the mountain alive is the one with the heart, not the guy with the fat wallet.

Anyway, don't you think all of this might have been prevented if you had a long time ago found the courtesy to avoid sanctimoniously sticking your nose into someone else's playing with not a scintilla of proof that these methods do not work for them?
 
Hey

Both men showed and played,theres one winner ,and one loser. Ten K I don't think is going to change either of these mens life,life is so short and you never know whats going to happen.Cherish every moment when your here because you never know what may happen, I had that happen sunday to me,and took one of the last two most presious things I had left in my life. Rich aka the skunk. God bless EveryOne here and show more love than hate please.
 
TATE said:
Since you can't see it in yourself, here is your hypocrisy:

I expressed my feelings and opinion on why I am disgusted with the behavior of these grown men, playing pool for 10K over an internet argument.

I expressed my opinion that gambling for large amounts, especially when someone has a young family like John, is unwise and reckeless.

I expressed my opinion that frail ego's and AZ billiards members contributed to this confrontation.


Rather than discuss the subject, you accused me of being omniscient, telling people how to live their lives.

What is hypocritical about you is you accused me of being judgmental rather than discuss the subject. You passed judgment on me, accusing me of passing judgment on others. Do you not see that? The omniscient Chef Jeff who can see all shotcomings but his own?

I don't want to take it any further than this, criticizing you. I don't feel any animosity toward you even though you insulted me - but you asked several times now. Please just think it over.
Click to expand...

You started this.

Jeff Livingston
 
TATE said:
If you read my original post over again, the gambling statement wasn't expressed toward you. It was expressed toward the notion, in general, that cheering on those who gamble encourages wreckless behavior.

I am not projecting my situation. I am wealthy but my wife would kill me if I made an internet pool match for 10K , so it wouldn't matter.
Click to expand...


Baloney.

Your first sentence read: "This match happened because two guys shot off their mouths on the internet. Plain and simple. It is shameful behavior. A whole pack of people piled on too, which made it worse. There is nothing here to be proud of, nothing noble. Does either guy really seem like they can afford to gamble 10K or 20K on a pool match? Not to me they don't."

Clearly you are referring to both John and I in your post. At least man up and own it.

Lou Figueroa
or apologize
 
sfleinen said:
Tate:

You's knows I's loves ya, but I'd been meaning to share my thoughts on this whole matter, without sounding judgemental myself. And that's not easy to do, considering the circumstances in this thread.

Don't mean to get in the middle of your repartee with chefjeff, but I wanted to use an extract, because the way you frame it makes it easier to reply to and still not sound judgemental. I hope you don't mind?



While I understand what you're saying here, I think you yourself are missing the part of how judgemental you are. It's a lot more than just "playing pool for 10K over an internet argument." Remember, this is a bad blood match -- which goes on all the time in our sport -- and this particular one has been going on for over 14 years. In fact, this 10K match is the CULMINATION of all that -- much more than "just an internet argument."



Here's where you went wrong -- the bolded part. That part is not only presumptive, but extremely judgemental as well.

A couple facts:
  • Lou is retired, so he and his wife are more than capable of deciding how best to use his retirement "enjoyment" money. In fact, you'll recall that Gail, his wife, was in large part his biggest booster for this match.
  • John runs a very successful business. And as you read, John and Karen (his wife) struck an agreement in how this match was going to proceed / what was going to happen afterwards if he won or lost. She also was in large part a big booster of this match.
I'm sure if either of these spouses were dead-set against this match happening, it wouldn't have happened. In fact, I guarantee you -- otherwise marital status(es) would've been changing as a result. Or at the very least, Lou would've been sleeping in the dog house for a long, long time, and John would be donning needle and thread at a case-making desk instead of overseeing the operation.

The "especially" part is where you went wrong -- you passed judgement here, whether you see it or not.



Well, you won't get an argument out of me over this. I completely agree, and am reminded of a line from the movie Gladiator related to "the mob" and how we play to "the mob."



I'm not quite sure he did that. What he did say, was that you yourself were passing judgement -- using your own opinion of what is smart and dumb (if I may use that word?) money management.

I hope you can see what I'm saying. I don't mean this to be confrontational, but rather just showing you something you perhaps can't see.

-Sean
Click to expand...


My wife, bless her heart, stayed up till 2am sweating the whole match (and she hates watching 1pocket). She logged on too late to see the last game the second day but I'll try and find the archive tonight so she can see it.

Lou Figueroa
 
It all boils down to this match and the skill presented is not worth 10k. Both guys are not good enough to put 10k on match regardless if they can afford it or not. Lou and JB's skills are not up there to warrant such a bet. It was reckless.

If this was SVB vs Efren, then we could understand the amount.

Therefore, we came to the conclusion that a 10k bet was made to compensate a lack of skill and to stroke your very own egos.

Both participants are still yapping about the fact that they put big money and nobody has the balls to do it. Come on.
 
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Sloppy Pockets said:
Just because I approve of a post enough to send a green to the guy who made it doesn't mean I have to accept every last blessed word the guy wrote. So, to make it clearer, the above portions of his post that I do agree with are highlighted in "Aguzin Blue" just for you.

So, you see, I have no particular gripe with how you spend your money, just that it proves zero me to regarding how much heart you have. You're a small time recreational gambler, just like most of the rest of us here. To suddenly step up from $20/game to a $10K race to nine is humorous to me.

It's like one of the guys in my area who have bagged all 46 high peak peaks in the Adirondacks suddenly says, "I think I'll try Everest next." Well, these days there are guys who can actually get you up Everest if you are willing to spend an absurd amount of time and money, but that don't make you a real expedition climber. Does the word "poser" fit?

Perhaps that's a bit harsh. You still have to do the climb, after all. But guess who's gonna being calling his Mama's name when things suddenly go wrong? The guide who gets you back down off the mountain alive is the one with the heart, not the guy with the fat wallet.

Anyway, don't you think all of this might have been prevented if you had a long time ago found the courtesy to avoid sanctimoniously sticking your nose into someone else's playing with not a scintilla of proof that these methods do not work for them?
Click to expand...


I don't recall ever saying this match or bet would prove anything about heart, gamble, skill, or aiming. No need to prevent anything ;-)

Lou Figueroa
 
dom_poppa said:
It all boils down to this match and the skill presented is not worth 10k. Both guys are not good enough to put 10k on match regardless if they can afford it or not. Lou and JB's skills are not up there to warrant such a bet. It was reckless.

If this was SVB vs Efren, then we could understand the amount.

Therefore, we came to the conclusion that a 10k bet was made to compensate a lack of skill and to stroke your very own egos.

Both participants are still yapping about the fact that they put big money and nobody has the balls to do it. Come on.
Click to expand...

Not yapping about anything. But there are things in life that arr genuinely awesome experiences and for me this was one of them. Only those who have done similar understand.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
dom_poppa said:
It all boils down to this match and the skill presented is not worth 10k. Both guys are not good enough to put 10k on match regardless if they can afford it or not. Lou and JB's skills are not up there to warrant such a bet. It was reckless.

If this was SVB vs Efren, then we could understand the amount.

Therefore, we came to the conclusion that a 10k bet was made to compensate a lack of skill and to stroke your very own egos.

Both participants are still yapping about the fact that they put big money and nobody has the balls to do it. Come on.
Click to expand...

I saw a pool hall owner and a doctor gamble for thousands and they were not as skillful as Lou and JB. The doc eventually lost some 100K after a while .

Obviously, no person is going to bet 10K if he didn't feel he was going to win.
JB was confident he was going to win.
So, did Lou.
No ego, just they thought they were going to win.
 
agree

[wrong quoote this was reply to Lou
I absolutely hope to get in a set like that some day against a rival or friend. Maybe when IBA gets much older like your guys age he'll get some heart and we will play for 10k.

Good job. Way to take it down. I hope you both enjoyed it and thanks for all the entertainment.

Put me on the list but I'll only play you two and stop. You shoot to straight.
 
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JoeyInCali said:
I saw a pool hall owner and a doctor gamble for thousands and they were not as skillful as Lou and JB. The doc eventually lost some 100K after a while .

Obviously, no person is going to bet 10K if he didn't feel he was going to win.
JB was confident he was going to win.
So, did Lou.
No ego, just they thought they were going to win.
Click to expand...


Winnar winnar, chicken dinar.

Lou Figueroa
 
bmsclayton said:
[wrong quoote this was reply to Lou
I absolutely hope to get in a set like that some day against a rival or friend. Maybe when IBA gets much older like your guys age he'll get some heart and we will play for 10k.

Good job. Way to take it down. I hope you both enjoyed it and thanks for all the entertainment.

Put me on the list but I'll only play you two and stop. You shoot to straight.
Click to expand...


Thanks and got it :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
dom_poppa said:
It all boils down to this match and the skill presented is not worth 10k. Both guys are not good enough to put 10k on match regardless if they can afford it or not. Lou and JB's skills are not up there to warrant such a bet. It was reckless.

If this was SVB vs Efren, then we could understand the amount.

Therefore, we came to the conclusion that a 10k bet was made to compensate a lack of skill and to stroke your very own egos.

Both participants are still yapping about the fact that they put big money and nobody has the balls to do it. Come on.
Click to expand...

What would we do, what would we do...???

I now know that these players are not good enough, moral enough, smart enough to, not only play pool, but bet, take care of their children, manage their money, or post on this thread.

Thanks for enlightening us,

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
What would we do, what would we do...???

I now know that these players are not good enough, moral enough, smart enough to, not only play pool, but bet, take care of their children, manage their money, or post on this thread.

Thanks for enlightening us,

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...


Truly, we are heathens.

Lou Figueroa
Unclean!
Unclean!
 
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