John Schmidt 6 Pocket Challenge

[iapoolguy]

I'll support it, I've played it a little and it's ok. Not an earth shattering game, but ok. I think it works as a league game (where you expect people to play structured sets and write down scores and deal with handicap). And if turns out to be the ULTIMATE league game that's great.. best of luck.

I just don't see it changing the face of pool because it has no 'flavor'. Straight pool has that long run grindiness. 9 ball has that fast luckiness and runoutness. 1 pocket has that strategic buntiness. But so far I don't feel any flavor for 6-pocket. It's just making balls without and particular rules or restriction.

I still wish it the best and I think it's inane for anyone to suggest there should be one single universal discipline for pool. Even in the days of straight pool (a game I obviously love) I wouldn't want pool to be primarily one game, with other games looked at as quirky hobbies that are unrelated to the 'real' game.

I think the 'game situation' in pool is fine right now. If some genie offered me the chance to make pool 10 times more popular, at the expense of erasing 1 pocket, rotation, or even fargo... I'd tell him to get bent.

I dont think anyone in the 6Pkt camp are trying to revoltionalise the game of POOL or BILLIARDS as we know it they are trying , Like Every room owner in the country, trying to put a balance to the game with there LEVEL PLAY hanicaping. Handicaping systems are very tough to get players out of the chair in general as it is. But after reading this thread would loved to have been a mouse in the corner of this challange between John and Dick to see exactly how exciteing it was during the time of this match.
The little I know of this system has excited me to where I have introduced the game to some Very novice and some very skilled players. I have yet to put them together, but Im waiting to see that they are at their best level to match them up...
As A room operator...the pool time is great for me and exciteing to see a possible way to include all level of players on level feild. Which adds to more INVOLVEMENT in my room. Hmmm. Theirs another thought, MORE players enjoying the game of POOL or Billiards...Hmmm

Terry

 

[D C 6 Pocket]

I dont think anyone in the 6Pkt camp are trying to revoltionalise the game of POOL or BILLIARDS as we know it they are trying , Like Every room owner in the country, trying to put a balance to the game with there LEVEL PLAY hanicaping. Handicaping systems are very tough to get players out of the chair in general as it is. But after reading this thread would loved to have been a mouse in the corner of this challange between John and Dick to see exactly how exciteing it was during the time of this match.
The little I know of this system has excited me to where I have introduced the game to some Very novice and some very skilled players. I have yet to put them together, but Im waiting to see that they are at their best level to match them up...
As A room operator...the pool time is great for me and exciteing to see a possible way to include all level of players on level feild. Which adds to more INVOLVEMENT in my room. Hmmm. Theirs another thought, MORE players enjoying the game of POOL or Billiards...Hmmm

Terry

There was a lot of trash talking but not as much as there was this morning when John made this statement..."I'll bet I can shoot a 110 or better without the cue ball touching a rail"..........its on NOW.

After me sharking him in every way I could think of :wink:, short of grabbing his cue, he does this........
10, 14, 9, 15, 12, 12, 14, 15, 12, 14 = 127

 

[JoeW]

The first person I know of to describe Olympic 9-Ball is Vickie Paski in Billiards Digest 1992. I have since lost the article but she probably references someone else that precedes her. I re-wrote her ideas about 6 months to a year later and published in Cues and News (Youngstown, Ohio about 1993). 6-Pocket is very similar without the rotation element.

See http://www.sunburstselect.com/PBReview/Olympic9Ball.htm

This description has been on my web site for a few years and I revised recently purely for display purposes. The content has not changed from the original publication.

 

[JB Cases]

We would never ask anyone to give up their favorite game and we realize 8 Ball is probably the most popular game in the world. One thing all pool games have in common is......they all started somewhere. I'm old enough to remember when 14.1 was THE GAME and it was shown on TV with large audiences and national sponsors, what happened to that? The invention of 9 ball?

I know it is human nature to 1st - find out whats wrong with it, pick it a part, 2nd - to let it run its course and see what happens, 3rd - Hey lets jump on board and help support it.

Thanks.......

Exactly. Doing number one exposes all weakness in the product and plan and allows for one to refine it.

Doing number two shows exactly how much acceptance of the product is really there and whether more effort is needed to promote it or not.

And number three is a given because people want to be part of something successful and fun.

I welcome all critics of my products because that's how I make them better.

Your game will never replace the games already in existence. BUT I can see it finding a place - my advice would be to PROMOTE the TEAM aspect of it. Bowling is essentially the same sort of activity with a single person playing it offensively - i.e. trying to score the highest amount of points without interference from the other players. And bowling leagues thrive.

I can definitely see something like that taking off far more easily than promoting just individual competition.

 

[theopiateden]

I welcome all critics of my products because that's how I make them better.

Your game will never replace the games already in existence. BUT I can see it finding a place - my advice would be to PROMOTE the TEAM aspect of it. Bowling is essentially the same sort of activity with a single person playing it offensively - i.e. trying to score the highest amount of points without interference from the other players. And bowling leagues thrive.

I can definitely see something like that taking off far more easily than promoting just individual competition.

Its very hard to criticize you when your cases are absolute works of art. i.e. the one in your signature. As for the team aspect of 6 pocket, this sounds like it could take off a lot better and hopefully have leagues like the APA adopting it. With 6 Pocket having its own handicapping system, maybe we wouldnt see the intentional throwing of games and ranks thats so abundant in the APA these days.

 

[Solartje]

another problem i see in 6 pockets, is the rather low difficulty level of a perfect score compared to other games.

I think getting a perfect score (10 x 15balls) is NOT SO hard. In a pro event, im sure, the differences will be so small and many will make a perfect score. How do you play from there? let them do the same thing? and if after 20 racks, the score is still equal, its sudden death?

I like john's way of playing. no rail, realy makes you use your brain ! without it, its just 15 pots, with some minimal positional play and minimal order of play involved.

I actually play different variants of it.

A/ no rails alowed. I call it "the electric cage equal offence".
B/ you have to bump another ball after you potted a ball. (GREATH for training cluster opening). i call it "the 3cussion equal offence".
C/ only bank/carom shots alowed.

This is my #1 playing drill/game/statistics in training.

i start with straight in stopshots along the long rail, with the 10ball as cb, and the 11ball as ob, align the stripes in the direction of the shot, and concentrate on my stroke, and see if the lines on the 10 or 11ball rotate , wich gives me all the info i need on what is not perfect yet.

3 racks of 9ball, 3 rakcs of straightpool.

and then i chose wich 6 pocket variant i need to focus on that day, and play that for 2 hours. My favorit, is the B version. it does 3 things at the same time: POT training, CLUSTER training, POSITIONAL training. Im not good enough but i would love to be good enough to play veriant D/ no rails alowed, and you have to bump a ball after the pot. now THAT is chalenging.


a good idea for a pro dificulty game.

6 pocket game
10 racks
+ no rails alowed.
+ ball bumping needed. For every ball you bump, you add the number of that ball to your score.
= perfect score of 3000 ( 10racks x 15 balls x (5+ 15 extra points))

aka.
1 bal pocketed = 5 points.
2 ball bumped = +2 extra points or 15ball bumped = +15 extra points.
if several balls are bumped at the same time, only the first bump is counted.
EACH bump has to be called.

now THAT is a chalenge to make a perfect score

playing system.

DKO. you could change the racks played depending on how many players/ tables you have.
Race to 10 = perfect score of 3000
Race to 5 = perfect score of 1500.
in 1vs1, guy with best score advances.

or (my favorit)

all players play together. ON each round 50% fall of. aka 32 players.
round 1= 32 scores. top 16scores, advance to round 2; etc... like that, even if you had a bad luck on one rack, the average of better players will always be better. the risk of a top player losing in the first rounds is almost close to nothing.
in DKO or SKO, you can always draw another topplayer, and play a match that should be the finals as a first round. Here this would not be possible. both topplayers will go to round 2.

Chaning 1 small thing from equal offence, or fardo, doestn make it a new game, and trowing a (very nice website) and giving it a new name, doesnt make it inovative or a worldchanging game...

 

[geno368]

I am 60 years old and have played just about all cue games. I really like this game very much because of three main reasons:
1. As I play it or compete with it I feel like I am working on my technique and concentration.
2. It is a way to really measure your ability with the added component of pressure to beat your best score
3. The way it is handicapped makes it a great game to get "action"

 

[Johnnyt]

I am 60 years old and have played just about all cue games. I really like this game very much because of three main reasons:
1. As I play it or compete with it I feel like I am working on my technique and concentration.
2. It is a way to really measure your ability with the added component of pressure to beat your best score
3. The way it is handicapped makes it a great game to get "action"

Well said, I agree. Johnnyt

 

[Pushout]

another problem i see in 6 pockets, is the rather low difficulty level of a perfect score compared to other games.

I think getting a perfect score (10 x 15balls) is NOT SO hard.

And how many perfect games have you had, with or without touching a rail?

 

[D C 6 Pocket]

another problem i see in 6 pockets, is the rather low difficulty level of a perfect score compared to other games.

I think getting a perfect score (10 x 15balls) is NOT SO hard. In a pro event, im sure, the differences will be so small and many will make a perfect score. How do you play from there? let them do the same thing? and if after 20 racks, the score is still equal, its sudden death?

I like john's way of playing. no rail, realy makes you use your brain ! without it, its just 15 pots, with some minimal positional play and minimal order of play involved.

I actually play different variants of it.

A/ no rails alowed. I call it "the electric cage equal offence".
B/ you have to bump another ball after you potted a ball. (GREATH for training cluster opening). i call it "the 3cussion equal offence".
C/ only bank/carom shots alowed.

This is my #1 playing drill/game/statistics in training.

i start with straight in stopshots along the long rail, with the 10ball as cb, and the 11ball as ob, align the stripes in the direction of the shot, and concentrate on my stroke, and see if the lines on the 10 or 11ball rotate , wich gives me all the info i need on what is not perfect yet.

3 racks of 9ball, 3 rakcs of straightpool.

and then i chose wich 6 pocket variant i need to focus on that day, and play that for 2 hours. My favorit, is the B version. it does 3 things at the same time: POT training, CLUSTER training, POSITIONAL training. Im not good enough but i would love to be good enough to play veriant D/ no rails alowed, and you have to bump a ball after the pot. now THAT is chalenging.


a good idea for a pro dificulty game.

6 pocket game
10 racks
+ no rails alowed.
+ ball bumping needed. For every ball you bump, you add the number of that ball to your score.
= perfect score of 3000 ( 10racks x 15 balls x (5+ 15 extra points))

aka.
1 bal pocketed = 5 points.
2 ball bumped = +2 extra points or 15ball bumped = +15 extra points.
if several balls are bumped at the same time, only the first bump is counted.
EACH bump has to be called.

now THAT is a chalenge to make a perfect score

playing system.

DKO. you could change the racks played depending on how many players/ tables you have.
Race to 10 = perfect score of 3000
Race to 5 = perfect score of 1500.
in 1vs1, guy with best score advances.

or (my favorit)

all players play together. ON each round 50% fall of. aka 32 players.
round 1= 32 scores. top 16scores, advance to round 2; etc... like that, even if you had a bad luck on one rack, the average of better players will always be better. the risk of a top player losing in the first rounds is almost close to nothing.
in DKO or SKO, you can always draw another topplayer, and play a match that should be the finals as a first round. Here this would not be possible. both topplayers will go to round 2.

Chaning 1 small thing from equal offence, or fardo, doestn make it a new game, and trowing a (very nice website) and giving it a new name, doesnt make it inovative or a worldchanging game...

Thanks for the input. It may be simple for the pro type player but what difference does it make if at the end of a 4 day tournament with a possible 600, you see a 594, 593, and a 592 as 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Wouldn't that be exciting?

 

[Pii]

I'm at my bud's house John Schmidt (using his AZ account) and I challenged him to a game of 6 Pocket last night for lunch at Taco bell today and had to figure out a way to match up..........here's what I came up with.
I play with the regular rules and John plays with this rule He can't let the cue ball touch a rail or it ends his turn.........WHO DO YOU THINK WON?:wink:

Dick shot a 64 and John shot a 7,4,12,7,14,10,15,10,14,15 = 108:thumbup:

That little Pr#@&k......LOL

What's 6 pockets ?

 

[D C 6 Pocket]

What's 6 pockets ?

Go to the 2 web sites and it will explain. The bottom one is a youtube video explination and the other is the league web site.

Thanks for asking.

 

[J. Learned Hand]

While Mr. Schmidt's feat is very impressive, it doesn't surprise me. Years ago, Luat told me that the Filipino's practice this way all the time. In fact, he explained that Efren ran 3consecutive racks of rotation from the break without hitting a rail...or another ball!!!

Any pro player of John or Efren's caliber need a "can't touch a rail" handicap for us little people a fighting chance.

Good shooting nonetheless.

 

[6pocket-r-us]

The same way every time, every where!

While Mr. Schmidt's feat is very impressive, it doesn't surprise me. Years ago, Luat told me that the Filipino's practice this way all the time. In fact, he explained that Efren ran 3consecutive racks of rotation from the break without hitting a rail...or another ball!!!

Any pro player of John or Efren's caliber need a "can't touch a rail" handicap for us little people a fighting chance.

Good shooting nonetheless.

We must keep in mind that the game of 6 Pocket, its scoring and ranking method, and its Level Play handicapping system, were developed as a completely integrated package....with over a man year in the process!

That being said, it's essential that the game be played scored and ranked exactly the same way by everyone who plays, everywhere they play, on every table played, everytime it's played.

Changing any one component of "the package" will undoubtably have a negative (and potentially irreversible) impact on some other aspect or feature of the system, in turn resulting in the system becoming unbalanced, and most importantly degrading the quality of the Level Play handicap numbers that are predicted by the system.

As a result we need to make sure that as the "complete package of 6 Pocket" is adopted throughout the industry (and that's happening at break neck speed) that we make sure that everyone sticks to the rules and systems as published so that we end up in the scenario of the McDonalds franchises....that is, you know exactly what your going to get each time you engage another in the game.

And please know that in this future - when realized, I can absolutely approach a professional table with my Level Play handicap number in tow, and provided that I play up to the best of my ability, and the we are playing by the "as published" rules and scoring and ranking method, I can compete with any player in the world. I may not win, but it will be close, and is't that what competition is all about....doing your best while giving the other guy/gal a run fro his/her money?

 

[Pii]

Go to the 2 web sites and it will explain. The bottom one is a youtube video explination and the other is the league web site.

Thanks for asking.

thanks................