John Schmidt has beaten Mosconi
- Thread starter gunzby
- Start date
What is this brutal attack?
Putting this run and JS standing as a player into an accurate historical context is not any form of an attack. It is also not an attack to point out that playing in a room with ideal conditions, all by your lonesome, for months at a time, is not the same as competing at a tournament, on strange, tough equipment, against the best in the world.
Lastly it is certainly not an attack to point out that 14.1 is not just about running balls. It is also about safety play and strategy. It is one thing to always approach the table with the balls blasted wide open (or a break shot) and it is another to come to the table with the CB frozen to the Simonis far from the OBs and no shot and a title and/or money on the line.
Lou Figueroa
Thanks for the clarification, Lou. Being only 41 all of my knowledge about the man is second hand at best.
I do understand the constant struggle of old vs. new. The want to say you have watched the best ever. To some babe will always be the home run king, all you had to do was watch the man swing a bat. Others feel Mike trout is already the greatest to ever live. In between is just a bunch of wannabes LOL. Heck somehow Aaron Rodgers is the best qb to live in some eyes.
I certainly appreciate the input of people lucky enough to have first hand knowledge of all parties involved in the discussion as well as the necessary knowledge to know whether or not what they are seeing is actually great. Now that is a subjective thing but it is better than anecdotal "knowledge" and simple romanticism.
In a strict sense I feel that John's has to be held as the official record but I think it takes nothing away from what Willie did that night. I know 14.1 very well, but I cannot comment on who the greatest to ever live was because I simply lack the actual knowledge necessary to make that call.
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I do understand the constant struggle of old vs. new. The want to say you have watched the best ever. To some babe will always be the home run king, all you had to do was watch the man swing a bat. Others feel Mike trout is already the greatest to ever live. In between is just a bunch of wannabes LOL. Heck somehow Aaron Rodgers is the best qb to live in some eyes.
I certainly appreciate the input of people lucky enough to have first hand knowledge of all parties involved in the discussion as well as the necessary knowledge to know whether or not what they are seeing is actually great. Now that is a subjective thing but it is better than anecdotal "knowledge" and simple romanticism.
In a strict sense I feel that John's has to be held as the official record but I think it takes nothing away from what Willie did that night. I know 14.1 very well, but I cannot comment on who the greatest to ever live was because I simply lack the actual knowledge necessary to make that call.
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
The European Championship ended earlier this month.
Feijen has 7 EC 14.1 titles (incl. 3 in a row), Ortmann has 5, Souquet 3 (in a row), van den Berg 3, Engert 3, with Immonen, Ouschan, Alcaide and Hohmann among those with 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Pool_Championship
I've played a lot of 14.1 on 8-footers. That was the only length readily available to me for about three years. It is a lot easier to play on an 8-foot table.
I asked Jimmy Caras in 1975 what he thought of the relative difficulty of the two sizes and he said that the only reason a top player would ever miss on the smaller table was because he got tired. Caras also came from a tradition that minimized movement of the cue ball and strove for millimeter-accurate position.
As for previous suggestions, Mike Shamos has said he thinks 8-foot tables are harder because of the crowding. Twice I've seen John Schmidt practicing 14.1 on a 7-foot table at the BCA Trade Show and both times he ran 180 balls within three or four tries. I don't think John finds the crowding a problem.
I'm not in a league that's even close to your conversation but:
I've got an example that I feel is relevant. I've put as many as three racks (45 balls) on a 9' table.
With 45 balls on a 9' table, it makes the table "seem" smaller. I guess it's because there are more options "once the balls are scattered".....I dunno.
I've also played 14.1 on a 7', 8', pro 8, 9 and 10 foot table. To me, the 8' table played the easiest. The 7' table would be second. Pro 8 3rd, 9 4th and so on.
Opinions would probably change depending on players 14.1 experience.
No problemo, erhino.
One udder thing occurred to me about the run: the times I saw Mosconi he played a match to 125 or 150. A match to 200 strikes me as a bit usual but would fit into the whole thing about him being friends with the owner and wanting to put up a good run.
But what happened was that Mosconi ran out the 200 and I think that since that was already a huge number that no one in the crowd had ever seen or even imagined possible, it then follows that they would naturally urge him to keep going. If he had run his usual 100, then there might not have been the same enthusiasm for him to keep going. Just a thought.
Lou Figueroa
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Wouldn't it have been nice for people back then to have done more in-depth interviews and had Willie's approval to put them down in writing. It seems like you cannot ever get enough information about any interesting thing in the past that is pool related. Many pool stories from the past come off like a dime novel....and that is sad.
Maniac
There’s a limit either way....size wise for me....I wouldn’t want to play 14.1 on a 6x12...
...and once I was down south for a week....ate breakfast at the same place every day...
..they had a 3x6 coin-op...gave myself three tries to break’n’ run every day at 8-ball...
...couldn’t do it...not even once in 21 tries....way too crowded.
Amen -- very well said!!
table size
8' is by far easier than a 9'. It is a true hybrid, about as easy to pocket balls as a bar box but still much roomier. Crowding isn't an issue.
Even bar table is easier than 9'. I remember playing scotch doubles bar table straight pool as a warm up for a tournament and on our FIRST INNING we ran a 216. True story. I have practiced by myself on a bar table 3-4 times playing straight pool and find it hard not to run 70-80. I find it much easier to stall out on a big table.
To be fair, my position play and pattern play are my strengths, so take away the missed shots and I might never stop. Shot makers might enjoy the extra space more than the bigger pockets, but even still don't believe you'll find a top pro that would rather play on a bigger table if their life depending on putting up a big run.
This is one case where I think that speculation doesn't hold up. Players that aren't hundred ball runners that haven't actually tried to post up big numbers on different equipment are free to hypothesize, but among those of us that have this isn't a debate. It's a consensus.
8' is by far easier than a 9'. It is a true hybrid, about as easy to pocket balls as a bar box but still much roomier. Crowding isn't an issue.
Even bar table is easier than 9'. I remember playing scotch doubles bar table straight pool as a warm up for a tournament and on our FIRST INNING we ran a 216. True story. I have practiced by myself on a bar table 3-4 times playing straight pool and find it hard not to run 70-80. I find it much easier to stall out on a big table.
To be fair, my position play and pattern play are my strengths, so take away the missed shots and I might never stop. Shot makers might enjoy the extra space more than the bigger pockets, but even still don't believe you'll find a top pro that would rather play on a bigger table if their life depending on putting up a big run.
This is one case where I think that speculation doesn't hold up. Players that aren't hundred ball runners that haven't actually tried to post up big numbers on different equipment are free to hypothesize, but among those of us that have this isn't a debate. It's a consensus.
I'm thinking you ought to write a historical novel about Mosconi's run of 526, since you seem to have so much creative speculation about just how it went down lol
Posted on AzB by John Schmidt in 2009:
"for the record i think 14.1 on the bartable is easier than 9ft.
you can reach allbreakballs,combos and shots are a joke etc.
yes its more confined space but with the cueball control ive learned from 14.1 thats the last thing im worried about.
for the record the easiest table to play 14.1 is a 4x8 .ive played on them all and its the easiest no doubt. enough room to play but still easier on shotmaking,reaching,combos than 9ft."
"for the record i think 14.1 on the bartable is easier than 9ft.
you can reach allbreakballs,combos and shots are a joke etc.
yes its more confined space but with the cueball control ive learned from 14.1 thats the last thing im worried about.
for the record the easiest table to play 14.1 is a 4x8 .ive played on them all and its the easiest no doubt. enough room to play but still easier on shotmaking,reaching,combos than 9ft."
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I'm thinking you ought to write a historical novel about Mosconi's run of 526, since you seem to have so much creative speculation about just how it went down lol
Lou is trained to be "creative".
He used to be a Public Affairs Officer.
If the "story" wasn't to his, or his boss' liking, he "created" one that was.
This may lend a little clarity. Though it may confuse things as well. Two articles. One, Willie ran 589. Not only less than 14, but less than a dozen from 600. Probably the event you're referring to, though unless you were there, I'm not sure how you'd know what Willie said, and why he quit just a bit before 600.
But then, in a second article, dated a bit later than the first, Willie claims a run of 609. John's run more than both, so nothing much to be made of this, but it backs up that even Willie broke Willie's record, maybe more than once, who knows. But I do like some documentation rather than members just arguing about who is right and who is imagining. Both articles do contain direct quotes, for those interested in history.
All the best,
WW
Attachments
Yes, it would have.
However, several writers, such as Robert Byrne, R.A. Dyer, and Tom Fox have written about the by gone years in such detail. I highly recommend their works to anyone interested in the history of the game.
Lou Figueroa
I'm thinking you ought to write a historical novel about Mosconi's run of 526, since you seem to have so much creative speculation about just how it went down lol
Exactly what have I been creative about?
The part about continuing from 200 was something I said was just a thought.
Lou Figueroa
I have you on Ignore but a couple of friends informed me about another of your attacks about my service to our country.
I will, again, report your slur against my 20 years of service in the USAF to the administration here.
Lou Figueroa
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