He's cutting to the left for that side-pocket shot, so the aim is to the right side of the pocket. That's not the closer side. Cut left -- aim right. Cut right -- aim left. That's what CJ's post says.
John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems
- Thread starter PoolSharkAllen
- Start date
He's cutting to the left for that side-pocket shot, so the aim is to the right side of the pocket. That's not the closer side. Cut left -- aim right. Cut right -- aim left. That's what CJ's post says.
Living Legend
Banned
It has to work that way with this technique or it defeats the purpose of the perception of opening up the pocket to the inside. You now will have the perception that you have like 4 inches of wide open pocket to hit instead of 2 inches shooting normally at dead center pocket. This technique is supposed to take away your undercut misses when the technique is used correctly and your pocketing percentage goes up. I believe this to be correct?
Now his alignment is slightly inside to slightly over cutting the ghost ball contact point? I am unsure about the bold. I understand everything else.
Last edited:
If that's the case with this side pocket shot, you can't use inside to open up the pocket.
I think we can all agree that there are certain shots that you can use " a slight touch of inside" to make the pocket effectively larger and other shots that it is impractical.
The bottom line to all of this "making the pocket effectively larger", is that it depends upon the location of the OB, the CB and the direction of the cut.
Maybe we need to start a new thread. We've hijacked poor old Schmitty and Corey's thread all to hell and made it confusing for anyone to follow. :rotflmao1:
Living Legend
Banned
i personally don't think cj would use this exact technique on every shot he comes across and i think he has variations of this technique he will use for specific shots. This is what i think and how all pros play.
Creating a Zone by using a "touch" of inside - Click LOGO for more info
When I'm cutting to the left I aim at the Right side...when I cut to the right I aim the Left side of the pocket.....when I cut to the left I hit A HAIR up to a half tip on the Left side of the Cue Ball.....when cutting to the right I hit A HAIR up to a half tip to the Right of center.
The ball must be hit with an accelerating stroke or you will put spin on it....I CUE IT a hair off center, but I DO NOT SPIN IT.....it's therefore NOT ENGLISH, it's DEFLECTION that makes the object ball OVER CUT into the CENTER of the pocket.....it's usually the part of the pocket closest to the OB, but not always, if you have a cut that's going out towards the table and the cueball is closer to the rail than the object ball. The main thing is you are ALWAYS trying to over cut the OB to create the ZONE OF THE POCKET ...
When I'm cutting to the left I aim at the Right side...when I cut to the right I aim the Left side of the pocket.....when I cut to the left I hit A HAIR up to a half tip on the Left side of the Cue Ball.....when cutting to the right I hit A HAIR up to a half tip to the Right of center.
The ball must be hit with an accelerating stroke or you will put spin on it....I CUE IT a hair off center, but I DO NOT SPIN IT.....it's therefore NOT ENGLISH, it's DEFLECTION that makes the object ball OVER CUT into the CENTER of the pocket.....it's usually the part of the pocket closest to the OB, but not always, if you have a cut that's going out towards the table and the cueball is closer to the rail than the object ball. The main thing is you are ALWAYS trying to over cut the OB to create the ZONE OF THE POCKET ...
Last edited:
Just say for instance CJ is speaking generally about 80 percent of cut shots, IMO a lot of this is simple nit picking. Trying to come up with shots where it wouldn't b practical. Cutting thin in the side pocket....... Really . Or cutting the ball backwards, that is just splitting hairs IMO . Use it or don't . If every player took the same literal stance on everything they were ever told they would still be trying to learn how to draw the CB
Yes, the inside cueing is intended to squirt the CB into position for a thinner cut to the center of the pocket rather than into the ghost-ball position for a thicker cut to the side of the pocket.
The term "cut-induced throw (CIT)" (found in newer instructional material) is a newer and improved version of "collision-induced throw" (found in older instructional material). I list both in my online pool glossary because both phrases are still commonly used. The reason why most people now prefer "cut-induced throw" is that CIT refers to throw resulting from a cut angle. This is in contrast to "spin-induced throw (SIT)," which results from sidespin.
Both types of throw (CIT or SIT) involve a collision (the CB hitting the OB). The collision is not what causes throw. Throw requires either a cut angle without gearing outside English, or any type and amount of spin other than gearing outside English. It is the sliding motion between the ball surfaces during the collision (due to cut angle or spin) that causes throw.
We should all do our best to use currently-accepted terminology. We should also question and improve any terminology that might be unclear or misleading.
Regards,
Dave
Living Legend
Banned
we are just trying to clear things up, its all positive :smile:
I personally think CJ's message is clear and simple and easy to express in words. How does this sound:
When English isn't required for CB positioning or throw, aim to undercut shots by half a pocket (by targeting the point of the pocket on the undercut side) and use a small amount of inside English to create squirt (and overcut) back to the pocket's center.
This will work well for some people, and it might not for others. The success will depend on accuracy of the off-center aim, exact amount of English, shot speed, cloth conditions, distance between the CB and OB, distance between the OB and pocket, pocket size, and shaft endmass (which determines the amount of squirt the cue creates). Some people don't care about these details and can still get the system to work in all situations. Other people like to understand how and why a system actually works and want to know when it might not work (without adjustment, either consciously or by feel).
Regards,
Dave
Last edited:
Living Legend
Banned
ok, so what happens when i want a soft hit on the shot?
Check out Efren on the Subject...
Check this out...I might be seeing things, but it seems like Efren is using a little inside on nearly all his cut shots. I could be seeing things, but watch the cue ball after contact. Lots of kill and evidence of inside on most of his cut shots. Could it be that the wet conditions of an outside table make this a preferred, more reliable technique? I've watched Efren's technique closely for many, many years, and I admit he uses outside slow spin for a great number of his shots, maybe more than most folks. But seems like he's using CJ's technique here quite a bit...not every time, but a lot...which if you recall CJ said he learned from Mike Lebron who in turn was learning it from Filipinos...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc14fGCe2k8
Check this out...I might be seeing things, but it seems like Efren is using a little inside on nearly all his cut shots. I could be seeing things, but watch the cue ball after contact. Lots of kill and evidence of inside on most of his cut shots. Could it be that the wet conditions of an outside table make this a preferred, more reliable technique? I've watched Efren's technique closely for many, many years, and I admit he uses outside slow spin for a great number of his shots, maybe more than most folks. But seems like he's using CJ's technique here quite a bit...not every time, but a lot...which if you recall CJ said he learned from Mike Lebron who in turn was learning it from Filipinos...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc14fGCe2k8
AtLarge's explanation correctly describes that:
"aim to the right side of the pocket when cutting to the left (with a touch of inside...)"
You can see why clear language is important.
pj
chgo
Living Legend
Banned
so you have been debating something you don't understand, again?
Last edited:
Great point PJ.
Clear language is so important but so difficut to find & utilize at times. Especially in text with no tone or inflection & considering the complexities of the subject matter at times. I think this, along with different vernacular is what makes these threads so long & difficult to follow at times.
When we can not convey our point properly, we at times get frustrated & start to 'blame' the other party. If we remain civil with an open mind we can eventually get the communication done properly.
This is not a dig at anyone. I certainly have fallen victim, but have committed to attempting to always maintian an open mind & realize that the problem is most probably in the different vernacular of the language.
Here's to better understanding through better communication.:hug:
That sounds like a great reason for it not to be called Collision-induced throw.
Someone, update Wikipedia....................
Do you guys think the following sentence describe's CJ's system accurately?
When English isn't required for CB positioning or throw, aim to undercut shots by half a pocket (by targeting the point of the pocket on the undercut side) and use a small amount of inside English to create squirt (and overcut) back to the pocket's center.
Thanks,
Dave
I understnd it but I have been doing it for more years than I care to admit, just not as a 'normal' shooting system.