John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

cjssecrets4u2 said:
This is better than anything on the Comedy Chanel .... I am determined to teach those that want to learn no matter what....without that I think it would be better to just play straight pool with Lou for $20 a game :canoodle: Lou Dobbs that is ;)
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There are many lurkers afraid to post in here that are following your posts. Therefore, whatever you do, do not let “the few” in here annoy you to point of giving up. They drove Stan Shuffett nuts in here also and its the same guys you have run into :grin:
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
Of course Efren does this....I was clear that it's essential to be a world class player to do this in some way....it's clear that no one that isn't a champion even knows this exists....please don't confuse the messanger with the message....I'm just trying to bring another level to everyone's pool games and I'm not asking for anything except maybe just a "thank you" once in a while and I"ve got many of them so far thank you....I know it may come as a shock that a professional pool player is giving the most valuable thing he has and expects nothing in return, but I believe in being the "sample example" if you really want to create positive change...Aloha :dance::dance::dance:
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Mr. Wiley,

Please see the bolded portion above. IMHO 'Blanket' statements do not seem to work well here on AZB. I have been shooting shots with your 3 part pocket scenario for more years than I care to admit. I take no offense, but some might.
I would hope that you do not have to spend too much time & effort defending your positions. I have learned to choose my words as wisely as I can & even then I go back & purge them from time to time.

Just some 'food' for thought with nothing but good intentions.
Rick

PS I enjoyed your Rocky video. It almost brought me to tears. I will never forget sitting in the theatre when Rocky landed his first punch & knocked Apollo down. Many in the theatre shouted out various things as did I, but I was the only one to my knowledge that also stood up & threw a short right handed fist pump. I'm not exactly sure what that means. However, almost all of us want to see the underdog succeed. Even the dethrowned Champion can appreciate what the underdog has accomplished. I sincerely hope you succeed in your seemingly overwelming endeavor. Either way, I'm sure you will give it your all & walk away a winner, one way or the other.
 
It's better to try and not succeed than not try at all.

ENGLISH! said:
Mr. Wiley,

Please see the bolded portion above. IMHO 'Blanket' statements do not seem to work well here on AZB. I have been shooting shots with your 3 part pocket scenario for more years than I care to admit. I take no offense, but some might.
I would hope that you do not have to spend too much time & effort defending your positions. I have learned to choose my words as wisely as I can & even then I go back & purge them from time to time.

Just some 'food' for thought with nothing but good intentions.
Rick

PS I enjoyed your Rocky video. It almost brought me to tears. I will never forget sitting in the theatre when Rocky landed his first punch & knocked Apollo down. Many in the theatre shouted out various things as did I, but I was the only one to my knowledge that also stood up & threw a short right handed fist pump. I'm not exactly sure what that means. However, almost all of us want to see the underdog succeed. Even the dethrowned Champion can appreciate what the underdog has accomplished. I sincerely hope you succeed in your seemingly overwelming endeavor. Either way, I'm sure you will give it your all & walk away a winner, one way or the other.
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I appreciate you opinion, but it was true and factual...if anyone wants to dispute it by playing, not writing, then that's fine....it's easy to say techniques work, it's yet another to Prove they work.....I'm willing to stand behind my techniques and cross swords if necessary. Just understand one thing, I can tell the difference...I am 100% confident in my knowledge and it has been proven in hundreds of high dollar games and tournament matches. Making "blanket statements" can't be confused with stating facts and I believe them....you have a right to your opinions and I have a right to my beliefs....I know a host of players that will back me up on this.
I won't be around much longer, my work here is almost finished. Thank you guys in advance for participating and if I helped a few of you then it's all been worth while. My strength is in video presentation and I'm out of my element trying to explain advanced techniques in writing, and I did my best. Blanket statements keep you warm at night, but that's about all.
 
Inner Space and Outer Space - Which infinity stretches farthest?

Living Legend said:
There are many lurkers afraid to post in here that are following your posts. Therefore, whatever you do, do not let “the few” in here annoy you to point of giving up. They drove Stan Shuffett nuts in here also and its the same guys you have run into :grin:
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They're not going to drive me "nuts" with childish games....I'm here, not for them, but for those that want to know that pool hasn't "died" and there's MANY levels left unexplored by the "general public"..no person trained me or sent me here, I was "groomed" by The Game......There's talk about outer space, but less talk about "Inner Space"....both are infinite and the only limits are in our own mind. Pool is the same way....beyond technical rhetoric there is boundless resources for self expression...the Game is perfect....'The Game is the Teacher' Amen
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
They're not going to drive me "nuts" with childish games....I'm here, not for them, but for those that want to know that pool hasn't "died" and there's MANY levels left unexplored by the "general public"..no person trained me or sent me here, I was "groomed" by The Game......There's talk about outer space, but less talk about "Inner Space"....both are infinite and the only limits are in our own mind. Pool is the same way....beyond technical rhetoric there is boundless resources for self expression...the Game is perfect....'The Game is the Teacher' Amen
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I agree with you. My 'balnket statement tip' was my well intended attempt to aid you, if possible, in dealing with this text format that is so lacking in tone & inflection. Maybe I too, could use some assistance. I look forward to your next endeavor.

Good Luck & Best Wishes !
Rick
 
Neil said:
To a point, I agree with you here. First and foremost, the shooter HAS to have the skill to reliably aim the shot to the correct part of the pocket, and make it there using center ball consistently. If they can't do that, this system won't help them much. A little, but not much. Second, the whole purpose of the system is to alleviate problems with squirt of the cb.

CJ's point is just to make it squirt the same direction each time. There are valid points to that. This works best for high deflection cues. For low deflection cues, or using BHE, you don't have near as big a problem to start with to where you would really benefit from his system.

For me, with my cue, (LD shaft), I don't have a problem with having to allow for squirt on better than 90% of my shots. I'm more a proponent of learning to hit center ball consistently, instead of saying it's too hard because you prefer to use a long bridge with a long stroke instead of something more accurate.

For some, with the style of play that they choose, this can really help them pocket more balls. For others, it's not necessary at all, and can actually hinder ones game by not utilizing all of the cb for position play.

If it works for you, great! But to say that it is the "right" way to play is in my opinion, misleading, and shows a lack of knowledge in what is actually going on, and how to correct problems. It's a great pill to take to cure the side effects of another pill you are already taking. Or, you can get rid of the pills altogether by just correcting the underlying problem.
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You always make such great points Neil. Welcome back!
 
Living Legend said:
There are many lurkers afraid to post in here that are following your posts. Therefore, whatever you do, do not let “the few” in here annoy you to point of giving up. They drove Stan Shuffett nuts in here also and its the same guys you have run into :grin:
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No one is trying to drive CJ off here. Or even wants him to leave. However, just because he was a world champion, doesn't mean that he isn't wrong on some points, and doesn't make some points that are just flat out ludicrous. (such as "no one that isn't a champion even knows this exists")

My hat is off to him in wanting to teach. If being questioned about a few things drives him away, well, then he doesn't want to teach, he wants to be hero worshipped with everything he says as gospel. Mike Sigel tried that with his $500 and hour lessons and giving out bad info. (such as that spin cannot be transferred to an object ball), Massey thought , like CJ, that you have to extend the followthrough to get great draw. He was shocked to find out on slow mo video that he was wrong in what he thought he was doing.

Being a pro, or even a world champion, does not mean that you know it all, or that some things you think are right, cannot be wrong. This has been proven a number of times. Posting on here, no matter who you are, you WILL be questioned. Sometimes to clarify, sometimes to point out errors.

I look forward to CJ's postings. I'm quite sure PJ does also. That does not mean that whatever CJ says is gospel though. He's human, and at times is wrong just like the rest of us. CJ has made several comments so far that are just flat out wrong. He should be called on them, just like everyone else. And, he apparently is not familiar with the amount of knowledge that is "out there" today. In his heyday, there was very little available. Not so today.

Teaching on here goes way beyond "I'm a pro, and you're not, so shut up and listen to me. You can't possibly be right or you would be the champion" There is much the pros think they are doing that has been shown to actually be something else they are doing. This has been proven over and over on here. CJ says it is too difficult to hit center ball. I called him on it, and if we ever get together, I will prove it to him on video. Simple test- take a striped ball, put the stripe vertical to the table, and hit it straight down the table using center axis on it. There is no way that CJ cannot repeatedly do this without the stripe wobbling. He would bet huge money that he can do it. Well, think about that.... he is willing to bet on doing something that at the same time he says is too hard to do.

So, what does that tell you?? First, he was wrong in the statement. So, his underlying premise is wrong. Yet, he likes the results. So, what actually makes using english better than just using center ball to pocket shots?? THAT is the real question here. That's where he needs to learn (if he doesn't already know) why a touch of english makes it easier to pocket balls than using no english. WHY do most pros use a touch of english, what have they instinctively realized, and what is the underlying principle to it.

If you really want to learn, this can be a great place to get info. If all you want is your basic hero worship, then maybe you should just go to pro tournaments a lot where you can actually rub elbows with them.
 
JoeyA said:
You always make such great points Neil. Welcome back!
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Thanks, Joey. I'm rather surprised and taken aback at the amount of people that have told me that. Even though I know full well that there are probably just as many that wished I stayed away. :smile:
 
I hope this doesn't mean what I think he means.:sorry:

"....Thank you guys in advance for participating and if I helped a few of you then it's all been worth while. My strength is in video presentation and I'm out of my element trying to explain advanced techniques in writing, and I did my best. Blanket statements keep you warm at night, but that's about all."

cj
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
How many times do I have to say "you don't use English"....can anyone go back and count how many? LoL ...this is getting comical :dance:
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Sidespin isn't of any use in your technique, CJ, but it's certainly there. One way to know that is this: if the cue ball didn't rotate sideways, it wouldn't push the tip aside one way and the cue ball the other - that's how squirt happens. In other words, without sidespin there would be no squirt and no technique.

So you can accurately say you don't use sidespin, but I don't think you can accurately say you don't produce at least a little whenever you hit the cue ball offcenter.

How is this important to learning your technique? Maybe not at all, except to know that the cue ball might show some sidespin effect if it hits a rail. But you seem like a good guy who sincerely wants to share your knowledge, so I'm assuming you want those who trust you to get the straight scoop about a basic principle that applies to many other kinds of shots.

pj
chgo
 
Neil:
No one is trying to drive CJ off here. Or even wants him to leave. However, just because he was a world champion, doesn't mean that he isn't wrong on some points, and doesn't make some points that are just flat out ludicrous. (such as "no one that isn't a champion even knows this exists")

My hat is off to him in wanting to teach. If being questioned about a few things drives him away, well, then he doesn't want to teach, he wants to be hero worshipped with everything he says as gospel.
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Nicely said, Neil. I get the impression that CJ's a big boy who can handle a little discussion, and if he leaves it'll be because he has accomplished what he wanted to. I also get the impression that he'll be back.

pj
chgo
 
Living Legend said:
"Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" :)
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I'm not. I simply like to teach, and I feel that it is very important to put correct info out there. If that offends some on here, well, maybe they need to think about if they really want to learn the truth, and the underlying principles so that they can then equate them to other situations or not.

I will call others on what I feel is wrong, and I fully expect everyone here to call me when I post something that is factually wrong. Just when you do, as I did, explain why it is wrong, and what the right way should be. Not just follow someone around and say everything they post is wrong as some on here like to do without ever saying what the right way should be.

I sincerely hope CJ sticks it out. As he stated, he is in new territory, and the written work can be hard at times to get an actual meaning across. Much easier in person than on here. But, if he truly wants to be a teacher, that is a part of what he needs to learn to be an effective teacher. Sometimes, no matter how much you think about your wording, and no matter how foolproof you think you have made your wording, and even though 90% understand exactly what you are trying to get across, there will still be that 10% that just think very differently and take a totally different meaning to what you wrote than you intended. It's all a part of being on here. Sometimes it really makes you want to pull your hair out and scream, but it is what it is.
 
Neil said:
No one is trying to drive CJ off here. Or even wants him to leave. However, just because he was a world champion, doesn't mean that he isn't wrong on some points, and doesn't make some points that are just flat out ludicrous. (such as "no one that isn't a champion even knows this exists").
.
. [snipped for brevity]
.
If you really want to learn, this can be a great place to get info. If all you want is your basic hero worship, then maybe you should just go to pro tournaments a lot where you can actually rub elbows with them.
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tap, tap, tap.
 
Please start a new thread for this discussion

this thread has gotten too long., but i enjoy reading all the comments.

Also, I would like to hear more on the 'acceleration' topic.
 
Not all teaching is for you...please be considerate and let everyone learn & develop

Massey thought , like CJ, that you have to extend the followthrough to get great draw. He was shocked to find out on slow mo video that he was wrong in what he thought he was doing.

Being a pro, or even a world champion, does not mean that you know it all, or that some things you think are right, cannot be wrong. This has been proven a number of times. Posting on here, no matter who you are, you WILL be questioned. Sometimes to clarify, sometimes to point out errors.

whatever CJ says is gospel though. He's human, and at times is wrong just like the rest of us. CJ has made several comments so far that are just flat out wrong. He should be called on them, just like everyone else. And, he apparently is not familiar with the amount of knowledge that is "out there" today. In his heyday, there was very little available. Not so today.

Teaching on here goes way beyond "I'm a pro, and you're not, so shut up and listen to me. You can't possibly be right or you would be the champion" There is much the pros think they are doing that has been shown to actually be something else they are doing. This has been proven over and over on here. CJ says it is too difficult to hit center ball. I called him on it, and if we ever get together, I will prove it to him on video. Simple test- take a striped ball, put the stripe vertical to the table, and hit it straight down the table using center axis on it. There is no way that CJ cannot repeatedly do this without the stripe wobbling. He would bet huge money that he can do it. Well, think about that.... he is willing to bet on doing something that at the same time he says is too hard to do.

So, what does that tell you?? First, he was wrong in the statement. So, his underlying premise is wrong. Yet, he likes the results. So, what actually makes using english better than just using center ball to pocket shots?? THAT is the real question here. That's where he needs to learn (if he doesn't already know) why a touch of english makes it easier to pocket balls than using no english. WHY do most pros use a touch of english, what have they instinctively realized, and what is the underlying principle to it.

If you really want to learn, this can be a great place to get info. If all you want is your basic hero worship, then maybe you should just go to pro tournaments a lot where you can actually rub elbows with them.[/QUOTE]

Where have I said on this forum that you must extend your follow through to get great draw? I said Hal Mix showed me how to extend my follow through to amplify english and that was on a follow shot with right hand english (the exact example Hal showed me at the Bicycle Club). I'm a 2nd Degee Black Belt that specializes in a Two Inch Punch to break boards up to 5 inches thick....There's no "extended follow through" in Breaking Boards, but you DO VISUALIZE GOING PAST WHERE YOU'RE AIMING....you can do this on the break in Pool too. I DO BELIEVE FOLLOW THROUGH NATURALLY HAPPENS BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT NECESSARY! I teach people in lessons to limit their follow through at times and think about their right hand coming back and returning to the same place. If you remember I said Hal Mix liked my accuracy because I wouldn't follow through more than I would take the cue back. How is that EXTENDED? You can call my stuff "ludicrous" but "judge not for as you judge so too shall you be judged"....are you going to say that's ludicrous as well...I think not.

If you're talking about the "CJ's Cue Tips" series, it was directed towards beginners (a 12 part series sponsored by Johnson&Johnson "cue tips":wink:) and the point was more about extending your follow through because beginners have a tendency to try to jab or poke at the cue ball to get draw and it's better to get them thinking about extension.

You, Neil, learn more at the intermediate to advanced level so it would be different for you and others like you. I can teach at three different levels because I have to be able to. Not only do no two people learn quite the same, it's also true relative to the level they are on at that particular time.

Teaching is most effectively done in levels or layers (however, you, Neil want to look at it) and I'm not expecting anyone to take my word as "gospel" (the good news), I'm just making points as well as I can under the harsh confinements of trying to teach on three levels AT THE SAME TIME on this forum to Many people that ALL LEARN DIFFERENTLY....this is a lot of variables and takes an incredible amount of flexibility to do. Please be considerate and understand that I'm not just helping you, Mr Johnson (even though you are becoming my favorite student), there are about 600 total people on this forum and I believe there's a gift I have for each and every one. CLICK LOGO TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT CJ'S POOL SECRETS
 
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Just when I thought I was out, they PULLED me back in

JoeyA said:
You always make such great points Neil. Welcome back!
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Just when I thought I was out, they PULLED me back in :wink: I just received a moving letter that convinced me to stay around ... I have another way of explaining a better, more consistent way to play and I'm sure Neil will LOVE it.:eek:
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
dr_dave said:
Do you guys think the following sentence describe's CJ's system accurately?
When English isn't required for CB positioning or throw, aim to undercut shots by half a pocket (by targeting the point of the pocket on the undercut side) and use a small amount of inside English to create squirt (and overcut) back to the pocket's center.​
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How many times do I have to say "you don't use English"....can anyone go back and count how many? LoL ...this is getting comical :dance:
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CJ,

Repeating something over and over does not necessarily make it correct. It has also been stated numerous times that anytime you hit the CB off center, even a small amount, sidespin is imparted to the CB. With that also comes squirt, swerve, and throw. Your system seems to rely on squirt (CB deflection). The amount of squirt is directly related to the amount of sidespin, which is directly related to the amount of tip offset from center. If there is no English (sidespin), then there is no squirt.

I am not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to help describe your system in a clear way using standard terminology so that more people might understand it.

I apologize if this offends you. Again, I have tremendous respect for you as a player and I hope you stay around AZB and continue to share your insights and experiences as a world champion.

Best regards,
Dave
 
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