John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

AtLarge said:
I don't want to go through what I have said about the spot shot yet again. I've posted several times about exactly what I mean. I see that the image you posted shows 31 degrees for the spot shot. That software is quite sensitive to ball placement, and it looks to me like you are a bit off in placing the 9-ball. I get 32 degrees when I use that software. I get 32.4 degrees when I calculate it with trig. Plus -- you must allow for CIT.
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who cares if i set the shot up and its 31.3 degrees and you set it up and its 32.3 degrees, it doesn't matter! Its a half ball hit meant to fine tune your stroke. If you have to allow for cit, then please do and just make the shot and learn and toss your calculator out and i am sure that will improve your game quicker than anything. :cool:
 
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Living Legend said:
who cares if i set the shot up and its 31.3 degrees and you set it up and its 32.3 degrees, it doesn't matter! Its a half ball hit meant to fine tune your stroke. If you have to allow for cit, then please do and just make the shot and toss your calculator out and i am sure that will improve your game quicker than anything. :cool:
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I agree to a point. I've never made a shot using a slide rule or a calculator. It's kind of like baseball, 'SEE' the ball... hit the ball, 'SEE" the shot...hit the shot...make the shot. If you are 'SEEING' the shot & something is keeping you from making the shot then fix it. If it ain't broke... then don't 'fix' it.

PS I don't know how many shots including very difficult shots that I have made in my 46 years of playing pool & do not know at what angle any of them were except maybe the straight in ones & I've taken college calculus & physics. That said 'pool knowledge' is very important to one's game & can be very useful. Just don't get paralysed by analysis.
 
There are a few on here that "force themselves into road blocks usually with over analysis", they haven't "learned how to learn".
 
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The Renfro said:
How slow are you shooting the spot shot? I can see where I undercut this if I lag it to the hole but with speed and a rolling ball I really don't get much in the way of CIT...
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No, I wasn't lagging it slowly. Most of these spot shots that I did over the last couple days were at a speed that would bring the CB (after striking the OB) two rails back to the head string (plus or minus a diamond) or at a speed that would bring the CB three or four rails back to the head string (plus or minus a diamond).

As to CIT, I acknowledged in post #890 that CIT varies with speed of shot. It also varies with a bunch of other things, including spin and the condition of the balls. But even if you assume zero CIT, the correct spot to place the CB on the head string for a spot shot using a center-ball hit on the CB and a rolling hit on the OB is not at the 2-up/1-over spot, it's about one ball closer to the side rail.

This has been well established for decades. Byrne put it in his "Standard" book nearly 35 years ago -- For a spot shot, put the CB on the line running from the outside edge of the OB to the inside point on the pocket you are shooting over. If you take a look at that line, you'll see that it crosses the head string a couple inches to the near-cushion side of the 2-up/1-over spot.

CJ uses the 2-up/1-over spot. I think we have now established that he normally hits that shot with a touch of inside, using squirt to move the CB into a slightly thinner-hit position than he would achieve with a true half-ball hit from that position. But for people who do not use any squirt on that shot, it's better to start a little closer to the side rail.
 
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duckie said:
... Oh anyone answer what a medium hit is?
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As you know, that would be something between a soft hit and a hard hit.:smile:

Here is the terminology Koehler used in one of his books for his controlled experiments:

Very soft -- 1 table length
Soft -- 2 table lengths
Medium -- 3 table lengths
Hard -- 4 table lengths
Very Hard -- 4+ table lengths​
 
CJ uses the 2-up/1-over spot. I think we have now established that he normally hits that shot with a touch of inside, using squirt to move the CB into a slightly thinner-hit position than he would achieve with a true half-ball hit from that position. But for people who do not use any squirt on that shot, it's better to start a little closer to the side rail.[/QUOTE]

I shot a few of these Friday night with different speeds & the results were inconclusive for me, except to say that I think the shot 'can' be made as Mr. Wiley says but for a more center hit that makes the ball & has no chance of scatching a thiner hit is what it takes. Just my 2 cents from a breif 'experiment'.
 
ENGLISH! said:
I agree to a point. I've never made a shot using a slide rule or a calculator. It's kind of like baseball, 'SEE' the ball... hit the ball, 'SEE" the shot...hit the shot...make the shot. If you are 'SEEING' the shot & something is keeping you from making the shot then fix it. If it ain't broke... then don't 'fix' it.
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Your baseball analogy reminded me of John Schmidt's baseball analogy mentioned in the OP transcript over 900 postings earlier:
John Schmidt: My piece of advice, if anybody cares to the viewers at home: forget all the aiming systems. Just like when you throw a baseball to first, you just do it. Right? There’s no aiming, you do it, you feel it. It’s same with pool. You get a mental picture and you do it. Aiming systems are the most ridiculous, overrated thing...The pros scoff at that stuff, they’re like, ‘aiming systems, really?!’...

If they would quit spending so much time on line and learning about aiming systems and go hit more balls they’d become better players. There’s no short cut to it. Sitting on AZ Billiards looking for aiming systems isn’t going to get it.
​
While some folks may disagree with certain aspects of what JS said, there is a lot of truth to some other things that he says. Things like people "spending so much time on line" when they could "go hit more balls" instead.
 
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CJ answered your question in post 903.






duckie said:
Do the test case shots and see how well this style of shotmaking works,but none will have the nerve to do so. Make sure the placement on the table is exactly in the pic.

Oh anyone answer what a medium hit is?
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3 Part Pocket System allows you to MAKE the ball either way

Patrick Johnson said:
None of us can hit any CB spot consistently. We try because missing any spot is just as bad as missing any other spot. If we miss to the right of centerball or to the right of leftcenter or to the right of rightcenter, it's just as big a miss either way.

pj
chgo
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You're right, and I don't think the outcome is to just "try to miss either way"....but to understand a system so you can MAKE the ball either way.
 
Do you really want to understand why it works?

ENGLISH! said:
Mr. Wiley,

I mentioned in another post, how 'boring' the game would be 'for me' if I had to hit every shot on the center line. I would probably quit playing. I know you are not 'talking' about side spin here. But...once one has learned how to shoot with combination english (off center top & bottom with side, right & left) the 3 C's you refer to all come into 'play' & 'play' becomes FUN.

I relate it to painting, which I did when I was young, commercial painting that is. Once one has painted a masterpiece with an artist's brush, english, why would one ever go back to painting houses with a 4" wide brush, a roller or a spray unit.

When one gets center hit (which takes perfection) out of the 'picture' & starts hitting the CB off center, ON PURPOSE, you bring CREATIVITY into the picture. To be successful in one's CREATIVITY one has to have the CONNECTION between the CB & OB & once one has the CONNECTION & is successful with one's CREATIVITY, CONFIDENCE 'comes' into the picture.

The picture starts to take shape. You & your style can then be exhibited in the game that YOU play. You are not an Iron Byron, the golf machine that has a 'perfect' swing. It would actually be harder to design, build, & then POSITION a machine to execute the shots that we have to execute when playing pool than it is for golf. Like you I have played tennis & golf as well. I was offered a position to teach tennis at a very large tennis club when I 20 yrs. old. I turned it down as I was still into 'playing' & having FUN & not ready to be locked into work at that time. In hind sight I wish I would have accepted. But I digress.

When you play succesfully with CREATIVITY, CONNECTION & CONFIDENCE & successfully create the picture that you have in your mind, you can express yourself on the table & then you are 'painting' masterpieces.

Painting masterpieces is FUN! Painting houses is work. I'd rather have FUN than work any day. I think that is what God intended for us, but something or someone messed that up. FUN is still there inside of us though, we just have to LET it happen.

If my take on your 3 C's is out of line, I apologize & I would certainly invite your explantion as to how they fit into the final picture of playing Pocket Billiards.

Sincerely, with nothing but Good Intentions,
Rick
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That explanation is as good as any I've heard....I just did a question and answer segment last night on video were I explained it in terms of being a musician or artist....to me Pool must be a way to express ones self to perform at the highest level.....when I think of some of the levels I reached it still seems impossible and even at the time I had to take care not to take personal credit for it...the ego tells us that we must understand things to do them well....I know there's people reading my posts saying "I don't want to do it until I understand why they work!!!" .....and I will reply "you don't have to" ..............."you don't have to understand why the techniques I am suggesting work".........just do it and then you will understand ;)
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
That explanation is as good as any I've heard....I just did a question and answer segment last night on video were I explained it in terms of being a musician or artist....to me Pool must be a way to express ones self to perform at the highest level.....when I think of some of the levels I reached it still seems impossible and even at the time I had to take care not to take personal credit for it...the ego tells us that we must understand things to do them well....I know there's people reading my posts saying "I don't want to do it until I understand why they work!!!" .....and I will reply "you don't have to" ..............."you don't have to understand why the techniques I am suggesting work".........just do it and then you will understand ;)
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Mr. Wiley, I'm fairly sure that I do understand. I have never taken martial arts or studied Zen. But...how did Bruce Lee say it? 'Be like water, my friend, become the tea cup'. In my analogy... we have to allow ourselves to become the brush... & then let the Artist paint the masterpiece.
 
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cjssecrets4u2 said:
You're right, and I don't think the outcome is to just "try to miss either way"....but to understand a system so you can MAKE the ball either way.
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By the way, it's only the sidespin part of your technique I don't get. I think your focus on "aiming small" at parts of the pocket is very important - it's something I work on constantly.

pj
chgo
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
I don't use "sidespin"...maybe if you see it happen...check this match out with Steve Mizerak, I was doing it virtually every shot in this match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeDEFlnguDY&feature=youtu.be
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Thanks for pointing this match out...I've heard about it ever since it occured, but never saw it. Definitely one of the best on tape.

I think the golf driving analogy made the most sense to me. Even a top pro golfer can't purposely hit a drive ABSOLUTLEY straight...there's always a slight slice or draw that sends the ball away from the line. If you aim at the center of the fairway, it moves one way or the other, but always AWAY from the center of the fairway. If you purposely shoot a little draw, aiming down the side of the fairway, then you're ball will be moving toward the center of the fairway--every time and ON PURPOSE. You might slice past the center point, but you'd have to hit it pretty bad to slice all the way across and out of the fairway.

Once I tried this on a table the other night a HUGE lightbulb went off for me. I've been playing since around the time you played this match...I always aimed for the center of the pocket opening (unless I needed to aim for half a pocket). I have always accounted for throw and squirt through aim or spin, but always anchored to the center of the pocket. I never put it together that which ever way I erred on a centerball hit (right or left of center or with too much English) I was only giving myself half a pocket to roll toward, and was rolling away from the center of the pocket. By purposely shooting slightly off center and aiming at the edge of the pocket, I'm giving myself the whole pocket. I've anchored my margin of error to the near side of the pocket (which I won't miss to the outside) and make my shot move toward the center of the pocket. It's like shooting at 7 inch pockets. When I tried this the other night, I was hitting them so good I never even rubbed a rail in over three hours of play. This definitely works for me and it's by far the best tip I've ever gotten.

Thanks CJ, as far as I'm concerned you've made this the thread of the century!!:thumbup:
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
OK, "offcenter hit" then...


Thanks for the link - that's a great match. But of course there's no way to see that you're using this technique.

pj
chgo
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Hey Pat, I think you can see it, maybe not from behind his cue but just watch how he strikes the shots, where the ob goes to the hole how the cue ball reacts and I think you'll see it & feel it. I was lucky enough to have that match on hand and went right to it when I heard CJ explain his technique and I believe I can pretty much see it.
 
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